Defensive front sevens ranked

[Broncos6482]

We've had a thread dedicated to the top cornerback tandems, now check out PFF's ranking of all 32 defensive front sevens.
Ranking All 32 NFL Defensive Front-Sevens

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Probably agree about Bailey and Howard not being tier 1 3-4 DE passrush guys. Bailey might be strongest 3-4 DE in the league, but he wins kind of slow if there was a way to put it. Howard, like Bailey, are plenty adequate at stopping the run, and unlike Bailey, has a couple plays where he squirts free and can cause havoc, but he doesn't consistently show that. Neither are of the level Malik Jackson, Wolfe, Daniels and a few others are, but they're rock solid 3-4 ends. Poe should see his 80% snap count return to normal a full year removed from back surgery- and I'd expect more similar production to 2013-14 than 15.

ILB is where it gets kind of interesting. Derrick Johnson has the football IQ, imo, to last quite a while so long as his body doesn't completely crap out on him first. Shoots the gap, understands coverage, and is quick enough to be a problem in passrushing situations. Josh Mauga is a limited player that has a narrow set of skills, but is usually fairly protected via scheme when he is on the field- strictly a 2 down thumper. Can not sift traffic whatsoever (this was an enormous problem in 2014 with the run defense if anyone remembers) to make the stop. Wilson and March are interesting and may actually bump Mauga off the roster entirely in camp- so that will be something I am watching, personally. March had an MCL so he never really got a chance to unseat Mauga last year. Wilson took the job when Mauga was hurt, then got hurt during the season as well. Not enough information to decide one thing or another on Wilson (a 4th rounder) and March a UDFA out of Akron. ILB is probably the murkiest position, but Derrick Johnson is a strong frontline.

OLB I am not too crazy about. Hali needs to be conserved more in his age to be effective, Houston is hurt for some not entirely indeterminate timetable, and the others are a bag of misfits, special teamers, or in Dadi's case, a vinerusher who clearly needs to add weight and move away from the end he played in college. No really Beamer, what were you doing? Dee Ford develops technique and maybe the handwringing is entirely null and void, but I am concerned here in a way I am not really at all about the much harped on CB position minus Sean Smith.

 

[Broncos6482]

I think OLB is the big question mark for the Chiefs. If Houston comes back quickly and can return to form, Ford takes a step forward to limit Hali's playing time so he can still be effective (much like the Broncos are doing with Ware), and the Chiefs OLB's can be as good as anyone's in the league.

However, if Houston takes awhile to recover, or isn't his usual self when he does come back, and Ford doesn't improve, and Hali slows down even more now that he's a year older, the Chiefs might seriously struggle to put pressure on qb's from the outside.

 

[cdumler7]

We've had a thread dedicated to the top cornerback tandems, now check out PFF's ranking of all 32 defensive front sevens.
Ranking All 32 NFL Defensive Front-Sevens

Keep hearing about this huge drop off for the Broncos after losing Malik and Trevathan this off season but seems PFF really really likes the Broncos defense for this upcoming year as well with having the CB combo and now Front-7 being both tops in the league.

I think something people forget about with the Broncos is it goes beyond just the starting 11 that contributed last year. Todd Davis the guy replacing Trevathan this year actually played over 40% of the snaps I think in 6 games last year. Most starters on the Broncos defense were around 60-65% snaps played which is honestly pretty low because they could rotate in players and not see huge drop off. Same with Walker now coming in for Malik. Walker ranked as the 3rd best run stopper at the 3-4 DE position in the NFL as a back up last year. Then you throw in the pass rush depth where our back up OLB's could be starting for quite a few teams in the league and it just shows there is still plenty of known talent on this team. Throw in now entering year 2 in the same system they should all be a bit more prepared going into training camp instead of still working to learn the playbook.

 

[cdumler7]

I think OLB is the big question mark for the Chiefs. If Houston comes back quickly and can return to form, Ford takes a step forward to limit Hali's playing time so he can still be effective (much like the Broncos are doing with Ware), and the Chiefs OLB's can be as good as anyone's in the league.

However, if Houston takes awhile to recover, or isn't his usual self when he does come back, and Ford doesn't improve, and Hali slows down even more now that he's a year older, the Chiefs might seriously struggle to put pressure on qb's from the outside.

Houston is really the huge question mark on that defense. Kind of like Miller for the Broncos Houston becomes the center point that offenses have to focus on stopping first. The Chiefs did pretty good without Houston last year but they were not exactly playing the who's who of teams during that stretch of wins. The two playoff teams they played during that stretch were without their starting QB if I remember right or at least Manning had to be taken out pretty quickly as it was obvious he was not himself. So have to see if that defense can continue to pick up the slack if Houston sits out for a while or takes a while to get full go again.

Heck I remember when Von was coming back from his ACL tear he started out on fire but just had nothing left in the tank over the 2nd half of the season and I think part of that is they put him into too heavy of a rotation too early after surgery and he just didn't have the conditioning and fire that he had at the beginning of the year. Also Houston's injury is kind of a weird one from what I have read. Usually when they are a little more abnormal it takes a little longer to recover but we will just have to see.

 

[Wamu]

I see the Browns are right where they belong.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I think OLB is the big question mark for the Chiefs. If Houston comes back quickly and can return to form, Ford takes a step forward to limit Hali's playing time so he can still be effective (much like the Broncos are doing with Ware), and the Chiefs OLB's can be as good as anyone's in the league.

However, if Houston takes awhile to recover, or isn't his usual self when he does come back, and Ford doesn't improve, and Hali slows down even more now that he's a year older, the Chiefs might seriously struggle to put pressure on qb's from the outside.

I am not so worried about Hali early in the season so much as I am during the dogdays and playoffs if they get there. He's still remarkably effective in short bursts, but it is rather apparent no amount of elegance and effort is going to stop father time. Houston I am not too sure about- but to be fair I am not sure anyone really is. All I do know is he has historically been kind of a workout warrior so I don't think any rust will be because he was slacking off during rehab. Ford I've always felt he'll be as good as he really wants to be- not sure he really gets it so to speak.

The Chiefs grabbed Chris Jones and the descriptions on him seem to imply they're hoping he develops into a tier 1 3-4 rusher (or NT) as the need provides going forward; insert "but every scout loves their guy" here. I'd be pretty surprised if the Chiefs don't add an edgerusher in the first 80 picks regardless of how Ford/Massaquoi/Et al perform just for depth purposes in the next draft. They have a lot inventory in the secondary, unproven as it might be, so I'd imagine they'll redirect their attention to the front 7 with their draft resources unless there's a QB that tickles their fancy.

The Houston timeline is like throwing darts right now- so I'll tend to decline narrowing it.

 

[Clayton]

Keep hearing about this huge drop off for the Broncos after losing Malik and Trevathan this off season but seems PFF really really likes the Broncos defense for this upcoming year as well with having the CB combo and now Front-7 being both tops in the league.

I think something people forget about with the Broncos is it goes beyond just the starting 11 that contributed last year. Todd Davis the guy replacing Trevathan this year actually played over 40% of the snaps I think in 6 games last year. Most starters on the Broncos defense were around 60-65% snaps played which is honestly pretty low because they could rotate in players and not see huge drop off. Same with Walker now coming in for Malik. Walker ranked as the 3rd best run stopper at the 3-4 DE position in the NFL as a back up last year. Then you throw in the pass rush depth where our back up OLB's could be starting for quite a few teams in the league and it just shows there is still plenty of known talent on this team. Throw in now entering year 2 in the same system they should all be a bit more prepared going into training camp instead of still working to learn the playbook.

Honestly I think PFF's secondary numbers are all bunk. Lots of lulz CB stats when checking out college draft picks for last year's draft. IMO, Denver doesn't have a top secondary duo but its high enough and I do think they have the best front 7 (maybe 2nd best heading into next year...somewhere right up with Carolina).

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Usually when they are a little more abnormal it takes a little longer to recover but we will just have to see.

Just curious, with a stretched ACL- you still you have to do surgery for the graft and what not, no?

 

[cdumler7]

I am not so worried about Hali early in the season so much as I am during the dogdays and playoffs if they get there. He's still remarkably effective in short bursts, but it is rather apparent no amount of elegance and effort is going to stop father time. Houston I am not too sure about- but to be fair I am not sure anyone really is. All I do know is he has historically been kind of a workout warrior so I don't think any rust will be because he was slacking off during rehab. Ford I've always felt he'll be as good as he really wants to be- not sure he really gets it so to speak.

The Chiefs grabbed Chris Jones and the descriptions on him seem to imply they're hoping he develops into a tier 1 3-4 rusher (or NT) as the need provides going forward; insert "but every scout loves their guy" here. I'd be pretty surprised if the Chiefs don't add an edgerusher in the first 80 picks regardless of how Ford/Massaquoi/Et al perform just for depth purposes in the next draft. They have a lot inventory in the secondary, unproven as it might be, so I'd imagine they'll redirect their attention to the front 7 with their draft resources unless there's a QB that tickles their fancy.

The Houston timeline is like throwing darts right now- so I'll tend to decline narrowing it.

I don't think you will find many Bronco fans that don't think Chris Jones will become a force for you guys. We loved him on our board and were hoping for the Broncos to draft him. When I saw him sliding in the 2nd all I kept thinking is "There is no way we get both the QB many of us wanted and the DE that almost all of us wanted is there?" Then of course you guys had to take him. Have to see if he needs some time to develop though as he was pretty raw coming out of college.

I was also a Ford fan before you guys drafted him but you are right he just doesn't seem to put the effort in to know what all he is supposed to be doing. He looks lost about half the time on the field which shouldn't be happening for a guy having been in the league as long as he has. Maybe this is the year it all starts to click but the pass rush is definitely a huge question mark. It could easily be a top-3 unit in the NFL or it could be bottom half of the league. Definitely a few more question marks on the Chiefs defense this year than in years past.

Hey any update on how the Berry negotiations are going? Haven't really heard anything.

 

[cdumler7]

Just curious, with a stretched ACL- you still you have to do surgery for the graft and what not, no?

From what I read they treated it pretty similarly to a Torn ACL in how they did the surgery. It is the fact that it was showing no response that has me baffled and wondering about how long it will take to heal. Almost sounds like one of those injuries that it is better for it to fully tear then just be stretched.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I don't think you will find many Bronco fans that don't think Chris Jones will become a force for you guys. We loved him on our board and were hoping for the Broncos to draft him. When I saw him sliding in the 2nd all I kept thinking is "There is no way we get both the QB many of us wanted and the DE that almost all of us wanted is there?" Then of course you guys had to take him. Have to see if he needs some time to develop though as he was pretty raw coming out of college.

I was also a Ford fan before you guys drafted him but you are right he just doesn't seem to put the effort in to know what all he is supposed to be doing. He looks lost about half the time on the field which shouldn't be happening for a guy having been in the league as long as he has. Maybe this is the year it all starts to click but the pass rush is definitely a huge question mark. It could easily be a top-3 unit in the NFL or it could be bottom half of the league. Definitely a few more question marks on the Chiefs defense this year than in years past.

Hey any update on how the Berry negotiations are going? Haven't really heard anything.

Quiet. We usually don't hear much at all very substantive about extensions. It's definitely not very out in the open. The closest we got was Justin Houston and him being able to shop offer-sheets kind of kept the petty and hard feelings for the most part at bay, imo.

Berry said he was "surprised" he isn't already extended- but this is moreorless the nature of the beast with players at or near the top of their respective positions. I'd give it a day or two with July 15th being a possibility. I don't think there's a reason to believe the Chiefs don't want to extend him. There's really been no indication of that- and the money and cap machinations to make it work do exist.

 

[cdumler7]

Quiet. We usually don't hear much at all very substantive about extensions. It's definitely not very out in the open. The closest we got was Justin Houston and him being able to shop offer-sheets kind of kept the petty and hard feelings for the most part at bay, imo.

Berry said he was "surprised" he isn't already extended- but this is moreorless the nature of the beast with players at or near the top of their respective positions. I'd give it a day or two with July 15th being a possibility. I don't think there's a reason to believe the Chiefs don't want to extend him. There's really been no indication of that- and the money and cap machinations to make it work do exist.

Yeah I had read where he said he was surprised that negotiations were so quiet and not further along but hey Houston got extended last year and it seemed pretty darn quiet until the end so yeah those deadlines seem to get people talking very quickly and aggressively. I would be surprised if they can't come to some agreement.

 

[Broncos6482]

Honestly I think PFF's secondary numbers are all bunk. Lots of lulz CB stats when checking out college draft picks for last year's draft. IMO, Denver doesn't have a top secondary duo but its high enough and I do think they have the best front 7 (maybe 2nd best heading into next year...somewhere right up with Carolina).

I'd be really curious as to what two corners you'd rank above Harris and Talib as a duo.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I'd be really curious as to what two corners you'd rank above Harris and Talib as a duo.

You can say Mathieu and Peterson, but that's kind of cheating.

 

[Clayton]

I was also a Ford fan before you guys drafted him but you are right he just doesn't seem to put the effort in to know what all he is supposed to be doing. He looks lost about half the time on the field which shouldn't be happening for a guy having been in the league as long as he has. Maybe this is the year it all starts to click but the pass rush is definitely a huge question mark. It could easily be a top-3 unit in the NFL or it could be bottom half of the league. Definitely a few more question marks on the Chiefs defense this year than in years past.

Lots of +s and -s on the Chiefs this year so its hard to actually figure out how good the team will be until its set into motion. Sean Smith out. Philip Gaines in. Abdullah out. A horde of young secondary players in. DeVito out. Chris Jones in. Justin Houston maybe out a bit. Dee Ford in.

Honestly I don't see the Chiefs have a top 3 unit or bottom half of the league unit. I think they are very likely top 10 but almost undoubtedly not top 5 when all is said and done.

 

[Broncos6482]

You can say Mathieu and Peterson, but that's kind of cheating.

Yeah I think the argument can be made for them for sure. Other than that, I don't know. If someone didn't want to say Denver's are the best, I wouldn't quibble with that. Put them outside of the top 3, I'd seriously question that list.

 

[Clayton]

I'd be really curious as to what two corners you'd rank above Harris and Talib as a duo.

I think Talib can get beat by small guys pretty easily. Its been shown a few times even in very high profile games. Its just that the pass rush (Miller in particular) is elite enough that they would make any secondary elite. I think Denver could plug in their first rounder from Ohio St (blanking on his name for some reason) and get similar results.

 

[cdumler7]

Lots of +s and -s on the Chiefs this year so its hard to actually figure out how good the team will be until its set into motion. Sean Smith out. Philip Gaines in. Abdullah out. A horde of young secondary players in. DeVito out. Chris Jones in. Justin Houston maybe out a bit. Dee Ford in.

Honestly I don't see the Chiefs have a top 3 unit or bottom half of the league unit. I think they are very likely top 10 but almost undoubtedly not top 5 when all is said and done.

I didn't mean bottom half of the league in terms of overall defense. What I meant was pass rush wise. They have the pieces if they are all healthy and a guy like Dee Ford has actually figured some things out to be a top level pass rushing unit. At the same time we could see Hali really fall off a cliff because of age and being overused. Dee Ford could continue looking lost. Justin Houston could have set backs in recovery or it takes longer than people think or he takes a while to get back into the flow of things. And so on.

 

[cdumler7]

I think Talib can get beat by small guys pretty easily. Its been shown a few times even in very high profile games. Its just that the pass rush (Miller in particular) is elite enough that they would make any secondary elite. I think Denver could plug in their first rounder from Ohio St (blanking on his name for some reason) and get similar results.

To me both units compliment each other well. Wade Phillips is able to be as aggressive as he is because he trusts the back end to hold up so well. At the same time the back end is definitely helped by having a great pass rush that can get home. To me the game that really showed the ability of this secondary was the Green Bay game. There were plays that they timed out where Aaron Rodgers of all people had sometimes over 7 seconds to throw and couldn't find a single player open and the Broncos played man coverage almost the entire game.