Credit Where Credit is Deserved

[BigKen]

Last night I watched a portion of the Denver - San Francisco game. As the Broncos began to put the wood to the 49ers, I started thinking about the construction of Broncos. They were second tier team four years ago when John Elway took over.

He immediately grabbed Peyton Manning and knew exactly what he had to do.....protect him at all cost. He went out and drafted and signed talented linemen who could pass block first but could also run block. Once that was done, it was just a matter of fitting quality pieces around a non-mobile, aging quarterback who could do just about anything if given 5-7 seconds to do it.

What most non-Bronco fans forget is that Elway was a Super Bowl winning QB and he knows from first hand experience what he needed and what the Denver Broncos needed to be a top notch team.

With some fanfare he picked apples out of other teams' baskets when they hesitated to sign their better players. He made decent offers and plucked them up. Say what you will, he even picked a couple of Patriot plums.

The more I thought about, the more I wondered why more champions past are not in similar roles with more NFL teams? Then it hit me..........because most teams have Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin, Andy Reid or Mike Shannahan for a head coach. All are from the Bill Parcells era of "If you want me to cook the meal, I have to buy the groceries." As good as they are at coaching, none of them ever played the game.
Having a type A personality GM who actually played the game and won the prize would be a huge problem for most coaches.

I have a feeling that more owners may start looking for GMs who have played the game and for coaches who can work with them.

After watching the Broncos dismantle the 49ers last night, I have nothing but admiration for the work and result that John Elway has done in Denver...............Mr. Kraft, maybe it's time to move into the 21st Century.

 

[TxHeat]

It's not really rocket science. Even Jerry Jones finally figured out the importance of building a strong o-line.

 

[BigKen]

That's true Tex, but the Dallas Head Coach just cooks the meal, the owner does most of the shopping.

 

[TxHeat]

That's true Tex, but the Dallas Head Coach just cooks the meal, the owner does most of the shopping.

but he may be finally listening to other voices in the organization (not in his head), because if he didn't, fucking Johnny would be with the Cowboys.

 

[cdumler7]

I think teams have tried the whole ex-player in many different roles where they have seen it end poorly. John Elway is a little bit different type of guy in he wasn't just a player as he was a business man that had many successful businesses. His car lots brought people from all over to buy cars from him. He has run restaurants that still to this day are considered some of the best in Colorado. He even actually helped run/own an Arena League football team so he wasn't just a football mind but he also is one with a great business mind. He also is one that doesn't have to have complete control of everything. He let's his scouts go to work and trusts them when it comes to the draft, he lets the coaches coach, and one of his first moves that many do not realize is he hired a guy that was considered one of the brightest minds when it comes to the Cap. The guy had actually worked with the NFL closely and was in charge of looking over every contract that had been written so he knew what good and bad contracts looked like.


Also thanks for the kind words BigKen. 4 years ago was probably the first time as a Bronco fan that I felt embarrassed of the team that I cheered for. We were at the lowest point in Bronco history. Elway took a big chance taking on the role that he did but every Bronco fan is eternally grateful he did! He had everything to lose if he had bombed as a GM/VP. He did it anyway and has brought the Broncos back to what us as fans expect. He has made a few mistakes along the way of course but his successes far outweigh that of his failures.


I still think we will once again see the Broncos and Patriots standing alone in the AFC. Indy is looking better than I ever thought but I think playoff experience will catch up to them lending once again to the Broncos and Patriots seeing who represents the AFC in the Super Bowl.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

I always liked Elway, charming yet no nonsense. But not every former player could do it.


I could see Manning following that hind of path and being very successful, Ditka did it too.


Favre? I don't think so.

 

[Rex Racer]

Last night I watched a portion of the Denver - San Francisco game. As the Broncos began to put the wood to the 49ers, I started thinking about the construction of Broncos. They were second tier team four years ago when John Elway took over.

He immediately grabbed Peyton Manning and knew exactly what he had to do.....protect him at all cost. He went out and drafted and signed talented linemen who could pass block first but could also run block. Once that was done, it was just a matter of fitting quality pieces around a non-mobile, aging quarterback who could do just about anything if given 5-7 seconds to do it.

What most non-Bronco fans forget is that Elway was a Super Bowl winning QB and he knows from first hand experience what he needed and what the Denver Broncos needed to be a top notch team.

With some fanfare he picked apples out of other teams' baskets when they hesitated to sign their better players. He made decent offers and plucked them up. Say what you will, he even picked a couple of Patriot plums.

The more I thought about, the more I wondered why more champions past are not in similar roles with more NFL teams? Then it hit me..........because most teams have Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin, Andy Reid or Mike Shannahan for a head coach. All are from the Bill Parcells era of "If you want me to cook the meal, I have to buy the groceries." As good as they are at coaching, none of them ever played the game.
Having a type A personality GM who actually played the game and won the prize would be a huge problem for most coaches.

I have a feeling that more owners may start looking for GMs who have played the game and for coaches who can work with them.

After watching the Broncos dismantle the 49ers last night, I have nothing but admiration for the work and result that John Elway has done in Denver...............Mr. Kraft, maybe it's time to move into the 21st Century.

How did Elway's vision work out for him in the SB last year?

Not so well if I remember correctly.

 

[TP76]

Last night I watched a portion of the Denver - San Francisco game. As the Broncos began to put the wood to the 49ers, I started thinking about the construction of Broncos. They were second tier team four years ago when John Elway took over.

He immediately grabbed Peyton Manning and knew exactly what he had to do.....protect him at all cost. He went out and drafted and signed talented linemen who could pass block first but could also run block. Once that was done, it was just a matter of fitting quality pieces around a non-mobile, aging quarterback who could do just about anything if given 5-7 seconds to do it.

What most non-Bronco fans forget is that Elway was a Super Bowl winning QB and he knows from first hand experience what he needed and what the Denver Broncos needed to be a top notch team.

With some fanfare he picked apples out of other teams' baskets when they hesitated to sign their better players. He made decent offers and plucked them up. Say what you will, he even picked a couple of Patriot plums.

The more I thought about, the more I wondered why more champions past are not in similar roles with more NFL teams? Then it hit me..........because most teams have Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin, Andy Reid or Mike Shannahan for a head coach. All are from the Bill Parcells era of "If you want me to cook the meal, I have to buy the groceries." As good as they are at coaching, none of them ever played the game.
Having a type A personality GM who actually played the game and won the prize would be a huge problem for most coaches.

I have a feeling that more owners may start looking for GMs who have played the game and for coaches who can work with them.

After watching the Broncos dismantle the 49ers last night, I have nothing but admiration for the work and result that John Elway has done in Denver...............Mr. Kraft, maybe it's time to move into the 21st Century.

I agree Ken, as much as I've hated that buck-toothed bastard over the years (Patriots 0-11 vs Elway) he's always been a winner and it looks like he's built a winner. Don't have to like him, but you have to acknowledge the job he's done building this talented team. Also, I wouldn't ignore the defense - they look to be the most complete team in the NFL so far, both sides of the ball.

 

[Bradyjustwins]

Two different things on this.

Damn right Elway deserves credit for what he built. He had to deal with the Tebow lovefest and all the backlash from it. Instead of just keeping his head above water he went all in. Team is loaded for a 2-3 year run.

But seriously? Kraft needs to get into the 21st century? Give me a break with that. Belichick's way has provided with the best record and most SB since he took over in 2000. They did the "all-in" thing in 2007 and was some of the most fun I had watching football but the end result was the same as Elway's team last year.

If I had my choice ill take the long term plan of Belichick over the "all-in" method of Elway's current team.

 

[Bradyjustwins]

I always liked Elway, charming yet no nonsense. But not every former player could do it.


I could see Manning following that hind of path and being very successful, Ditka did it too.


Favre? I don't think so.

Ditka didn't do it. He was a joke as a GM. He gave up a whole draft for Ricky Williams.

 

[cdumler7]

Two different things on this.

Damn right Elway deserves credit for what he built. He had to deal with the Tebow lovefest and all the backlash from it. Instead of just keeping his head above water he went all in. Team is loaded for a 2-3 year run.

But seriously? Kraft needs to get into the 21st century? Give me a break with that. Belichick's way has provided with the best record and most SB since he took over in 2000. They did the "all-in" thing in 2007 and was some of the most fun I had watching football but the end result was the same as Elway's team last year.

If I had my choice ill take the long term plan of Belichick over the "all-in" method of Elway's current team.

I guess my question is what do you mean by "All-In?" I think there are 2 different kinds of "All-In." There is the type that a team is willing to put themselves in Cap Hell in the future to have a good year now. Then there is the type where a team is aggressive at signing some players but never at the expense of the future. The Broncos at this time fit the 2nd more than the 1st. Yes they were aggressive in going out and signing guys like Aqib Talib, DeMarcus Ware, and TJ Ward for the defense but none of those contracts are destroying the Broncos Cap. The big thing for the Broncos is they have drafted well over the last few years which has allowed them to be a little more aggressive in FA because they have so much Cap Space. They also work hard not to get themselves overextended by offering ridiculous levels of Signing Bonus money that brings about a lot of dead money...just looking at those 3 players' contracts that they signed this off season...

DeMarcus Ware is probably the most dangerous of the 3 but essentially the Broncos signed him to a 2-year deal worth around $20 million. He's is getting up in age but my guess is he still has 2 good years left in him. I mean he is 2nd in the NFL in sacks only behind Von Miller right now so money well spent so far. After 2-years they can cut him with only around $1.6 million in dead money which with the Cap going up like it is will be a drop in the bucket.

Aqib Talib--everybody saw the huge numbers of his contract and freaked out. The thing is there is no way he get's top dollar for his contract. Talib again is pretty much a 2-year contract where after that there is very little cap damage. The actual guaranteed part of his contract only totals $11.5 million. If the Broncos cut him after this season that is all he would count against the team total. Not bad considering the Patriots right now are already $5 million in the hole for next season because of Revis.

TJ Ward--Again after 2-years his Dead money is not going to be that detrimental. They all 3 just received $5 million in signing bonus money so that is the only part of their contracts that is spread out over the full length of the contract meaning the worst their dead money could be after year 1 is $4 million. Just to give a reference point to that the Seahawks with cutting Harvin have over $7 million in dead money because of his signing bonus next season. So none of the players will even equal the dead money that is Revis after this season.

Manning is similar even in his worst dead money hit would be $5 million for next season if he decided to hang it up but would also free up $16.5 million in cap space.

The Broncos also are 7th in Cap Space for this season meaning they should have somewhere around $7-10 million in carry over for next season. So the Broncos could have around $40 million in cap space for next off season alone. Not seeing how they are in Cap Hell at all even after signing all of these players. So yes the Broncos are in Win Now mode but they are also in Win from now on mode in never signing a player to a contract that could possibly destroy the team. No player that is in the top-10 for Salary for the Broncos is actually signed for longer than 2-years at this time with a larger than $5 million in dead money hit. The Broncos don't like to push cap hits to future years. They like the Cap Hits to stay similar throughout the duration of the contract never putting themselves in danger.

 

[NEhomer]

Elway built a great team but his Bronco fanbase is still full of pussies.

 

[cdumler7]

Elway built a great team but his Bronco fanbase is still full of pussies.

You are too kind sir!

 

[Bradyjustwins]

By all in I mean they got the last 3 or so years of Peyton Manning's career and loaded up for his 3 year run. Once he retires it won't matter much what is left from what he added because you will need to find another QB and no matter who you add won't provide this type of success. He is all in on trying to win a SB now and will mostly have to start over.

Pats have always planned for the future while trying to win now. They have maintained a level of success that has been unmatched since Belichick took over.

I have no problem with what Elway did. He made the most of the opportunity in front of him. I just find it absurd to suggest this is the way to go and somehow the Pats method is a thing of the past.

Let's be honest, Elway doesn't luck into Manning being available the Broncos are likely just floating at .500 these years. I wouldn't change the 14 years of (mostly) success for hoping you can catch lightning in a bottle.

And being a former player is meaningless to me. Elway himself has done a good job but there are as many if not more non-former players who have had success. The 3 most successful teams of the 2000s are the Pats, Colts and Steelers. None were built by former players.

 

[NEhomer]

You are too kind sir!

Lol!

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Ditka didn't do it. He was a joke as a GM. He gave up a whole draft for Ricky Williams.

Thats why his nickname is "coach", not "GM"

 

[BigKen]

Like I said in my original post. Belichick is a product of the Parcell's system and era. He makes all of the decisions. He rarely listens to anyone else and goes his own way regardless of the result.


Brady has renegotiated his contract several times over the past 7 years. He's extended it to help the team and yet Belichick has done little to help his start quarterback. With the dollars Brady gave him, did he ever get a quality free agent wide receiver or top notch offensive lineman? The perfect example is 2010 when Brady had Reche Calwell and Jabbar Gaffney as his primary targets. Thank the good Lord for Troy Brown.


Come into the 21st Century? How about hiring a crew of professional scouts who can go out and find the guys that the team needs to make it work and compete. All you have to do is look at the players Belichick just walked by in previous drafts who have been outstanding in the NFL. BB is always looking to make his mark in the 4th or 5th round. Yeah it worked for a while, but it's not really working now. That's where a GM who's not coaching is worth his weight in gold. He'll make decisions based on team needs and weakness and not the best "Belichick Value".

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Like I said in my original post. Belichick is a product of the Parcell's system and era. He makes all of the decisions. He rarely listens to anyone else and goes his own way regardless of the result.


Brady has renegotiated his contract several times over the past 7 years. He's extended it to help the team and yet Belichick has done little to help his start quarterback. With the dollars Brady gave him, did he ever get a quality free agent wide receiver or top notch offensive lineman? The perfect example is 2010 when Brady had Reche Calwell and Jabbar Gaffney as his primary targets. Thank the good Lord for Troy Brown.


Come into the 21st Century? How about hiring a crew of professional scouts who can go out and find the guys that the team needs to make it work and compete. All you have to do is look at the players Belichick just walked by in previous drafts who have been outstanding in the NFL. BB is always looking to make his mark in the 4th or 5th round. Yeah it worked for a while, but it's not really working now. That's where a GM who's not coaching is worth his weight in gold. He'll make decisions based on team needs and weakness and not the best "Belichick Value".

That was 2006, which was followed in 2007 by Stallworth, Moss and Welker, a record setting year that fell a couple of freak plays from 19-0...

 

[redseat]

what makes it all click is that players feel even more confident with Manning behind center that it makes them all better. I mean for the most part Denver had most players already there before Manning it's just that he made them that much better!

 

[lasvegasb/tcha$$]

That was 2006, which was followed in 2007 by Stallworth, Moss and Welker, a record setting year that fell a couple of freak plays from 19-0...

That freak play didnt win the game for the giants,what lost the game for the pats was a terrible draft choice in ellis hobbs being COMPLETELY lost & getting burned by burris