Controversial players & arguements

[CalamityX11]

I wanted Quinn over anyone at that slot(fairley was also a consideration).... I threw a temper tandrum and still stand by it until Aldon delivers for us.

The year before, I wanted us to move up for Jerry Hughes... big fan of his.

 

[CalamityX11]

Ok here's a fun one to debate.... toss up. With everything aside... it came down to Willis or Revis, who would you have drafted? Not knowing what we know now obviously.

I'd stay with Willis. I agree Revis was the better CB going in vs Hall, but Willis is that LB a great defense needs.

 

[imac_21]

Ok here's a fun one to debate.... toss up. With everything aside... it came down to Willis or Revis, who would you have drafted? Not knowing what we know now obviously.

I'd stay with Willis. I agree Revis was the better CB going in vs Hall, but Willis is that LB a great defense needs.

There's the emotional connection to Willis since he IS a Niner, but I think having a great CB is more valuable than a great MLB. If my choice was between
Great MLB and average CB

or

Average MLB and great CB

I would take the average MLB and great CB every time.

 

[CalamityX11]

There's the emotional connection to Willis since he IS a Niner, but I think having a great CB is more valuable than a great MLB. If my choice was between
Great MLB and average CB

or

Average MLB and great CB

I would take the average MLB and great CB every time.

But going in, without knowing what we know now. Did you think Revis was going to be a great CB, nonetheless top in the league, entering the draft?

If you did, good call.

 

[imac_21]

But going in, without knowing what we know now. Did you think Revis was going to be a great CB, nonetheless top in the league, entering the draft?

If you did, good call.

I didn't know he'd be the player he is, but I was confident he was going to be a great CB.

I also didn't know Willis would be as good as he has been.

 

[NinerSickness]

You beat me to the Revis VS Willis debate. That one got heated. You're correct 'mac; Revis is more valuable to a team than Willis.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Pre-draft Willives was my 4th overall prospect that year. Revis was somewhere in the teens, don't remember. It's obvious which way I would've went.

 

[NinerSickness]

I don't think many people thought Revis would be one of the 2 best CBs in the NFL.

 

[Jtymer49er]

In 2004 I was begging for us to take Vince Wilfork. We kept trading back and got the great Rashaun Woods. Not one of my better days. He did catch like 7 TD in one game or something like that in college.

 

[I_am_1z]

My Rankings of QB Prospects the last 3 drafts

Only the top 10
1stRounders
1. Matthew Stafford
2. Jimmy Clausen
3. Ryan Mallett
4. Sam Bradford
5. Josh Freeman
2ndRounders
6. Mike Kafka & Pat Devlin
8. Blaine Gabbert
4thRounder
9. Christian Ponder
5thRounder
10. Cam Newton

 

[uclabruin094]

Biggest thing for me was when we passed on DeSean TWICE. That is probably the angriest I have, and will ever be during a draft

 

[FourBeeDen]

Biggest thing for me was when we passed on DeSean TWICE. That is probably the angriest I have, and will ever be during a draft

You could have saved yourself all that aggravation by familiarizing yourself with the GM. DeSean did not get consideration from McCloughan as a BPA because he is a GM that likes to base his decisions with by a players measurables. DeSean being 5'10" and 175lbs, affected McClouhan's choice. He likes bigger WR's

 

[dredinis21]

Willis vs Revis:
I know that there is a homeristic (is that even a word?!?) tendency in picking Willis over Revis for some, but at THAT time, I felt we made the right decision and in a way, still do. Willis was a clear cut STUD to me before the draft, easily the most guaranteed All Pro of the bunch for reasons that I have stated in previous posts. I was high on Revis but not to the same capacity as Willis, who I felt we needed given our relatively weak DL and our 3-4 ILB being Derek Smith and Jeff Ulbrich. At worst, I felt that Willis would be a multiple Pro-Bowler whereas Revis to me was more a feast or famine kind of player. Remember that Willis was an All Pro his first season playing in the 3-4....

 

[threelittleturds]

Would Revis even be valuable on a team that doesn't generate pass rush? He can only cover one guy. With that in mind, the QB can just ignore that receiver and sit there in his rocking chair while smoking his pipe and eventually find the open guy among the other passing targets.

When it comes to value with the defense as a whole the past few years, I think Willis offers more to the 49ers defense than Revis would have. Just think about how Asomugha was wasted on the Raiders.

 

[imac_21]

Would Revis even be valuable on a team that doesn't generate pass rush? He can only cover one guy. With that in mind, the QB can just ignore that receiver and sit there in his rocking chair while smoking his pipe and eventually find the open guy among the other passing targets.

When it comes to value with the defense as a whole the past few years, I think Willis offers more to the 49ers defense than Revis would have. Just think about how Asomugha was wasted on the Raiders.

In 2009 when Revis really made a name for himself as the best CB in the game the Jets had the #1 passing defense in the league in terms of yards allowed yet tied for 18th in sacks with just 32 (we had 44 that year). That was the year he neutralized Moss (twice), Owens (twice), Andre Johnson etc.

The other thing that comes with a CB like that is more freedom on defense. You can scheme pass rush more, or you can scheme coverages more to help the other side. You can be more creative with your safeties when you can trust one of your CBs to eliminate a WR regardless of who the WR is.

 

[threelittleturds]

In 2009 when Revis really made a name for himself as the best CB in the game the Jets had the #1 passing defense in the league in terms of yards allowed yet tied for 18th in sacks with just 32 (we had 44 that year). That was the year he neutralized Moss (twice), Owens (twice), Andre Johnson etc.

The other thing that comes with a CB like that is more freedom on defense. You can scheme pass rush more, or you can scheme coverages more to help the other side. You can be more creative with your safeties when you can trust one of your CBs to eliminate a WR regardless of who the WR is.

Hmmm, if I remember correctly about that year. The 49ers had 22 sacks in 12 games, and then 22 sacks in the 4 games versus the Rams and Cardinals. I don't know why they blew up against the Rams and Cards, but their pass rush was pretty crappy versus everyone else they played.

I am honestly pretty torn on this. I understand how much of an impact someone like Revis makes, it boosts the secondary in a ton of ways. Makes it easier for the safeties to help with run support or even blitz the QB. If I had the choice, I'd probably go with the great CB and average MLB too.

At least with Revis, the 49ers might not have drafted Kentwan Balmer. I was assuming on draft day, that the 49ers took him in hopes of boosting the D-Line, and hoping that he would eat up bodies for Willis.

 

[imac_21]

Hmmm, if I remember correctly about that year. The 49ers had 22 sacks in 12 games, and then 22 sacks in the 4 games versus the Rams and Cardinals. I don't know why they blew up against the Rams and Cards, but their pass rush was pretty crappy versus everyone else they played.

I am honestly pretty torn on this. I understand how much of an impact someone like Revis makes, it boosts the secondary in a ton of ways. Makes it easier for the safeties to help with run support or even blitz the QB. If I had the choice, I'd probably go with the great CB and average MLB too.

At least with Revis, the 49ers might not have drafted Kentwan Balmer. I was assuming on draft day, that the 49ers took him in hopes of boosting the D-Line, and hoping that he would eat up bodies for Willis.

You're right, or at least very close to right, about the Niner sack totals from 2009. I used that argument in my reasoning for adding pass rushers in the 2010 draft. However, the Jets average with 32 sacks in 16 games is nearly identical to the Niner average of 22 in 12. If 22 in 12 is bad, so is 32 in 16.

It was also said earlier in the thread that CBs are dependent on the play of the pass rush, and that makes Willis more valuable, but here you say Balmer was drafted with the intent of helping Willis.

 

[imac_21]

When it comes to value with the defense as a whole the past few years, I think Willis offers more to the 49ers defense than Revis would have. Just think about how Asomugha was wasted on the Raiders.

I missed this earlier. Wouldn't non-Niner fans consider Willis a waste in SF much like Asomugha was in Oakland? It isn't as if we have been incredibly successful since adding Willis.

 

[threelittleturds]

You're right, or at least very close to right, about the Niner sack totals from 2009. I used that argument in my reasoning for adding pass rushers in the 2010 draft. However, the Jets average with 32 sacks in 16 games is nearly identical to the Niner average of 22 in 12. If 22 in 12 is bad, so is 32 in 16.

It was also said earlier in the thread that CBs are dependent on the play of the pass rush, and that makes Willis more valuable, but here you say Balmer was drafted with the intent of helping Willis.

Oh yeah, I meant to say that too. That the 49ers certainly weren't much worse than the Jets that year. Both right around 2 sacks a game. I guess that year does pretty much blow my argument out of the water though. Jets were the #1 defense that year.

What I meant with Balmer, was that it seems as if the 49ers only drafted him because of Willis. When you have a defense built around a MLB, you need guys up front to take up blockers. I was just suggesting that if the 49ers had drafted Revis instead, they probably wouldn't have taken a flyer on Balmer. That pick might have been spent on a player that would be a compliment to a shutdown corner, instead of a beast of a middle linebacker. (Was just daydreaming about a scenario where the 49ers don't waste a pick on Balmer)

 

[imac_21]

Oh yeah, I meant to say that too. That the 49ers certainly weren't much worse than the Jets that year. Both right around 2 sacks a game. I guess that year does pretty much blow my argument out of the water though. Jets were the #1 defense that year.

What I meant with Balmer, was that it seems as if the 49ers only drafted him because of Willis. When you have a defense built around a MLB, you need guys up front to take up blockers. I was just suggesting that if the 49ers had drafted Revis instead, they probably wouldn't have taken a flyer on Balmer. That pick might have been spent on a player that would be a compliment to a shutdown corner, instead of a beast of a middle linebacker. (Was just daydreaming about a scenario where the 49ers don't waste a pick on Balmer)

That makes sense. I just disagree that a MLB's contribution to the defense is less reliant on the player's around him than a CBs.