Can we have an honest #1 conversation??

[CatsTopPac]

Really, there isn't a team yet this year who looks like they are a legitimate #1 team.

And to be terribly honest, none of these teams would be in the top 5 ten years ago, or older.

I would say that SU, UW, OSU, and AZ are all tied for 6-9th.

Truth is, this OAD rule is killing the ability for teams to look like a solid #1. Everyone #1 team is ranked there by default.

The only team that looks like they would have been top 5, ten years prior, is the 2012 UK team, and that's even a stretch. Every team has had a game or two this season already, that has looked very suspect.

All of these young players are bouncing to the draft because they "are lottery picks". But other than Kevin Durant, I can't name a single freshman that would have been a lottery pick after their freshman year, 10, 15, or 20 years ago.

But when all of these players leave, the quality of basketball in college goes down, especially for the top teams who constantly have to bring in new players, or transfers, who don't know the system, and try to win with them.

I remember Lute Olson never started a freshman who wasn't named Sean Elliott, or Mike Bibby. And that is considering all of the talent to come through Tucson in the last 30 years.Teams were built on JR and SR leaders in the starting lineup, with SO and FR as their understudies.

Now, if a team has one quality starting senior, then they have senior leadership. As much as I like Miller, he is confined to the OAD system, because the good players can't be recruited as 4-year players. Telling elite recruits about the education of a school as a selling point is an insult, that they are going to be around long enough to graduate.

In closing, there is no #1 team right now, and there probably won't be a legit top team this year (just like last year). #1-#5 should be left vacant, because there isn't a team in basketball right now who looks like what a top 5 team should look like. We can argue about who should be number one, but that would be a relative argument to the other top 5-10 looking teams in CBB, this year.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

While I appreciate what you're saying in regards to the upperclass talent being down, and the relative strength of these teams compared to years past, I think you're going a little overboard.

We can debate the purpose of the polls in general, I think most of us can agree on a few things...

1) They exist at least to some extent as a marketing tool for the networks
2) It doesn't really matter where you are ranked in college BB.
3) We're only ranking teams from this season

So it doesn't really make sense to leave spots open, even if it's just to make a point.

I get what you're saying about teams not having "earned" a #1 ranking yet, and that was generally true last year, ten years ago, and 20 years ago at this point in the season. It's all just speculation this early in the season. If anything I think teams now have more of an opportunity to earn their spot early. With the proliferation of the early season tournaments and events like the Champions Classic, teams that we think are good get a chance to test their mettle against good competition. We used to have to wait until January for any marquee matchups. Now there are a dozen or so before Thanksgiving.

As far as this season goes, I haven't seen every game that AZ has played, but from what I have seen, I think they look like the best in the country, and I said that before MSU lost. Every team is going to have an off night or two. That's why we haven't had an undefeated team for nearly 40 years. So I try not to go too overboard from one or two bad outings.

 

[CatsTopPac]

I agree. I try not to be an AZ homer, but from watching every minute of their games this (and every year), they essentially have 7 starters. They don't have one or two guys that teams have to look at and agree that they need to stop in order to win. AZ has had 5 different players lead the team in scoring in a game, 7 of their 9 games have had 4-6 players in double digit scoring, 4 different players with double digit rebounding, and two different games with 2 players in double digit rebounding. And that doesn't even really speak to TJ McConnell having 7 games with 6-10 assists per game. The balance of this team is shocking.

But I guess what I was saying about picking a top 5 team (let alone a #1), is that what a top five team looks like shouldn't change from year to year. And I think it has. That is why I am disappointed with picking a #1. There isn't a team this year that I think stands out. And that's not because there are a few teams that are all good. It's because the quality in CBB hasn't been that good compared to years passed. So picking a #1 is just relative to the other teams this year (which is both of our points, I just don't see it as a good thing lately).

Even with AZ, SU, OSU, and UW looking good, and still not being dominant in all of their games, I am still just a little disappointed in the level of competition, and having quality upperclassmen. AZ, looking as balanced as they do, only have one player NJ who is an upperclassman who has been with AZ the whole time. It's sad that in CBB, that they look so good, with such lack of senior leadership.

I just think that top 5 teams to me look more solid in their rotation than the teams in the OAD era. Teams are filled with players making freshman mistakes because they are filled with freshmen and sophomores.

I'm not saying that teams need to be even close to undefeated to be considered a top team, because like you said; they are still playing teams from the same year. But I just think that a top 5 team from a decade ago and longer looks much more sound than top 5 teams in the past few years. That is why I feel that there are "no top 5 teams this year".

I would just like to see more from CBB than I am. I'm not saying that the actual players from decades ago are better, but they just stayed longer, and developed more. That makes for better teams.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

To be clear, I'm not trying to change your mind or anything like that, just adding a little perspective...

I kinda like things now. From a big picture perspective anyway. Sure I'd rather see the really talented guys stick around longer, but as long as the NBA is throwing millions at them, they won't. But the side effect to all of that is we have much better parity that we used to. Sure, its a little frustrating seeing a team full of talented stars struggling because they're so young, but were things really so great back in the good ol' days? Yeah, you usually had better seperation between the top tier teams and everyone else, but isn't it nice to have different teams in the Final Four every year? Were things really better when Duke and UNC and Kentucky and Kansas were kicking the crap out of everybody most of the time? Personally, I like the balance we have now. The big programs are still getting the big recruits, and they're all mostly in the hunt every year, but at the same time, there are plenty of other small programs giving the big boys a run for their money.

So what you see as the overall level of competition being down, I see as a much more level playing field. Contrary to the rumors you may have heard, I'm actually a glass-is-half-full, kinda gal.

 

[CatsTopPac]

I hear ya. I can see both sides of the coin, as well. I love college basketball for its parity, and always love to see the upsets that no other sport/level combination provides. So, I will definitely agree with you there.

I mostly miss it in the really important games between elite teams. When two top teams battle it out, I want to see as solid of basketball as possible, and it sucks when two top five teams play and both look worse than I was hoping for. I felt that way in the Champions Classic this year. Looked like MSU and UK were both trying to give the game away. Same thing to a lesser extent in the Duke, KU game.

And back in the good ol' days, AZ was one of those teams that was always at the top of the rankings, and making deep runs in March on a relatively regular basis. So, in that respect, I miss the coaching of Olson, who made starting as a freshman one of the greatest privileges bestowed upon an AZ player. Not like now, where it's played with a sense of entitlement.

Bottom-line though, and to your point, CBB is far better than any other combination of sport and level, and March Madness will never be equaled; OAD or not. So, I will admit that I'm just being a little fussy in what I'd like to see improved from it.

Still always looking forward to the season, and I miss it dearly during the offseason. Here's to being in the middle of the best show on Earth!!!

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Bottom-line though, and to your point, CBB is far better than any other combination of sport and level, and March Madness will never be equaled; OAD or not. So, I will admit that I'm just being a little fussy in what I'd like to see improved from it.

Still always looking forward to the season, and I miss it dearly during the offseason. Here's to being in the middle of the best show on Earth!!!

Random note: CBB will always be my favorite, but I'm enjoying the hell out of these snow games today in the NFL.

 

[john01992]

I dont get your "not being dominate in every game" aspect. even if college football teams have bad showings. and to hold it against teams so early in the beginning of the season is beyond stupid.

 

[The Derski]

I'm going to wake up tomorrow and Arizona will be the number one team in all the land.

 

[Great Dayne]

Being #1 is irrelevant. Being a #1 seed is the most important factor on the line. Even though the top 5 seem strong right now it's not 100% certain their success will continue once the conference play starts. I believe the #1's will show up in 3 weeks and will be their to stay unless major injuries or upsets occur.

 

[Clayton]

In closing, there is no #1 team right now, and there probably won't be a legit top team this year (just like last year). #1-#5 should be left vacant, because there isn't a team in basketball right now who looks like what a top 5 team should look like. We can argue about who should be number one, but that would be a relative argument to the other top 5-10 looking teams in CBB, this year.

I'm going to agree with your first point: there is no #1 team right now. OAD players take awhile to gel. Ill also agree that OAD players reduce the quality of the overall game.

I disagree with your second point that there won't be a legit top team this year. Last year's talent pool sucked. We had one of the worst drafts ever. OAD only creates parity when the top talent isnt elite. It actually eliminates parity if the 'super teams' gel.

This is going to be the kind of year where we get 2-3 #1 seeds in the Final Four and nobody under a 3 seed.

 

[Hook'Em0608]

I like Ohio St as #1 at the moment.

 

[rmilia1]

I like Ohio St as #1 at the moment.

OSU doesnt score consistently enough to be #1 IMO. I think Zona, Cuse, Wisconsin are the 3 most impressive teams so far with Nova, OSU, OK State, Iowa State and Iowa being in the next tier, teams like MSU, KU, UK, Duke are probably much better than they have been performing so far and likely will get better as the season progresses.

 

[The Derski]

I like Ohio St as #1 at the moment.

Ohio St.'s best win at Marquette so far.

 

[Hook'Em0608]

Just my opinion. Not resume based by any means. Their defense has been outstanding. They don't turn the ball over. They have experienced guard play. That typically pays off and is more consistent than relying on outscoring everybody and playing pretty basketball.

 

[GreenNickle]

In basketball it doesn't matter who is #1
You only need to be 1-8 to get a preffered seeding sometimes 9-12 isnt all that bad.