Camp Talk

[Screamin12th]

Honestly I can't fathom some of the injuries these guys play through. I had a rotator cuff injury back in January, thankfully it didn't require surgery but the pain was fucking awful.

Rotator cuffs are awful, i tore the muscle completely free of the bone in my shoulder and it also ripped my rotator cuff so it was no longer connected to the ball of my shoulder socket, I still suffer from it today. I looked deformed when it happened and the surgery even with insurance was VERY expensive ( more than a new car ). They had to use parts of a dead persons body to repair mine so my left arm has a few pieces of John in it. A 18 year old kid that died in a motorcycle accident. I had 4 surgeries and over a year of therapy. So much damage from what i thought was a minor injury. I was running out to my car and it was very windy and pouring down rain, a plastic bag wrapped around my legs and i went sliding like i was on Ice and grabbed a fence pole as i went sailing by. Heard a loud POP and my arm folder backwards and upside down. 20 years later and this shoulder still hurts.

I was very heavy into sports up till i was 24 years old and never got hurt this bad playing any of them ( Baseball, Football and soccer. )

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

As someone who liked the Witherspoon selection, I'm slightly worried after seeing videos of him getting cooked by both Tyler Lockett and JSN.

There might be a slight learning curve with him primarily playing man coverage in college and moving to a zone coverage scheme.

There's a tremendous learning curve on zone if you've never played it, from what I've heard from corners. And some corners who were excellent in man coverage (remember that guy Nnamdi Asomugha?) were HORRIBLE once they converted to zone.

But yah, I heard Witherspoon had a nice breakup but also got torched a couple times (although JSN is undefeated, I don't believe anyone has stopped him... If he stays healthy, that might be the biggest steal of the draft).

For me if we'd drafted Jalen Carter or a DL at #5 I'd expect a decent PFF grade and MAYBE pro bowl discussion (sometimes it takes a bit for even good DTs/DEs to ramp up)... if you're drafting a corner at #5 I expect pro bowl, heavy DROY discussion, and all pro discussion. And Seattle had a good pass rush last year. We were top 10 in sacks... it's the fact we couldn't stop the run, which Witherspoon will admittedly help on...

 

[seahawksfan234]

Rotator cuffs are awful, i tore the muscle completely free of the bone in my shoulder and it also ripped my rotator cuff so it was no longer connected to the ball of my shoulder socket, I still suffer from it today. I looked deformed when it happened and the surgery even with insurance was VERY expensive ( more than a new car ). They had to use parts of a dead persons body to repair mine so my left arm has a few pieces of John in it. A 18 year old kid that died in a motorcycle accident. I had 4 surgeries and over a year of therapy. So much damage from what i thought was a minor injury. I was running out to my car and it was very windy and pouring down rain, a plastic bag wrapped around my legs and i went sliding like i was on Ice and grabbed a fence pole as i went sailing by. Heard a loud POP and my arm folder backwards and upside down. 20 years later and this shoulder still hurts.

I was very heavy into sports up till i was 24 years old and never got hurt this bad playing any of them ( Baseball, Football and soccer. )

Jesus fucking Christ, sorry about that man. Makes me feel very fortunate my injury wasn't worse. The pain was so bad that when I saw my primary care physician, I thought he was gonna tell me I needed surgery. I can't imagine the shit you've gone through.

 

[seahawksfan234]

There's a tremendous learning curve on zone if you've never played it, from what I've heard from corners. And some corners who were excellent in man coverage (remember that guy Nnamdi Asomugha?) were HORRIBLE once they converted to zone.

But yah, I heard Witherspoon had a nice breakup but also got torched a couple times (although JSN is undefeated, I don't believe anyone has stopped him... If he stays healthy, that might be the biggest steal of the draft).

For me if we'd drafted Jalen Carter or a DL at #5 I'd expect a decent PFF grade and MAYBE pro bowl discussion (sometimes it takes a bit for even good DTs/DEs to ramp up)... if you're drafting a corner at #5 I expect pro bowl, heavy DROY discussion, and all pro discussion. And Seattle had a good pass rush last year. We were top 10 in sacks... it's the fact we couldn't stop the run, which Witherspoon will admittedly help on...

The learning curve with zone coverage is substantial, you are correct. Witherspoon was drafted on his ability to play in man coverage. He can mirror a guy perfectly, but does he have the ability to drop back and play in zone coverage? Pretty sure in his career he seldom played zone. There are various schemes you can run that have an outside corner playing man on man with the other side of the field playing zone, but you don't want to have to scheme around one player.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

The learning curve with zone coverage is substantial, you are correct. Witherspoon was drafted on his ability to play in man coverage. He can mirror a guy perfectly, but does he have the ability to drop back and play in zone coverage? Pretty sure in his career he seldom played zone. There are various schemes you can run that have an outside corner playing man on man with the other side of the field playing zone, but you don't want to have to scheme around one player.

Yah, he seems to possess all the skills to be great in zone, given he's a great tackler... but I believe he mostly played man in College where 1) it's easier to bully receivers (not as easy in the NFL) and 2) the refs will let you get away with a bit more grabbing (unless your name is Sauce Gardner). Everyone says he can play zone, but not sure from what I read he was playing a ton of it. And if you're that talented, you can prob. play anything at College, NFL is a whole other thing.

I'm not too concerned about him getting torched by Lockett and JSN. Lockett is a damn fine receiver who torches plenty of good corners... and JSN looks like a freak of nature at the moment. JSN has not just made like 1 or 2 big plays and that's the end of that (like Eskridge), he's making people look helpless day in and day out.

That said, Witherspoon did eventually run a 4.4 so I think he can stick with faster receivers, but I do think he needs to bulk up if he's going to play press.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

What's really good about JSN's reports, is it's consistent every day. I get annoyed when you hear local media (or fans) be like, "OMOGMOG so and so caught a TD or got an INT! He looks amazing out there! Future HOFer!!! <insert team> got a steal!"

Everyone has their 'moments' but unless you're consistently performing and on everyone's radar day after day, IMO it's fairly meh. I heard Eskridge got a TD or big catch or something one day. Great... have we heard anything since or anything else from him? No.

So anyone saying, "ESKRIDGE is looking great out there!" No he's not, outside of one thing nobody has mentioned fuck all about him (I think Geno threw an INT his way though, which means there was potential of a misrun route, wouldn't shock me if that was the case). I wonder if after that early on concussion it just was a psychological career ender. Although the guy can't run a route to save his life. Pretty sure there was a couple times last year he was okay to play and Seattle just sat him anyway.

 

[Anointed One]

The weaponry on paper looks amazing... Also throw in our TE's and it even gets better...

 

[Screamin12th]

What's really good about JSN's reports, is it's consistent every day. I get annoyed when you hear local media (or fans) be like, "OMOGMOG so and so caught a TD or got an INT! He looks amazing out there! Future HOFer!!! <insert team> got a steal!"

Everyone has their 'moments' but unless you're consistently performing and on everyone's radar day after day, IMO it's fairly meh. I heard Eskridge got a TD or big catch or something one day. Great... have we heard anything since or anything else from him? No.

So anyone saying, "ESKRIDGE is looking great out there!" No he's not, outside of one thing nobody has mentioned fuck all about him (I think Geno threw an INT his way though, which means there was potential of a misrun route, wouldn't shock me if that was the case). I wonder if after that early on concussion it just was a psychological career ender. Although the guy can't run a route to save his life. Pretty sure there was a couple times last year he was okay to play and Seattle just sat him anyway.

Actually Eskridge has been a standout with JSN in most of the camps and practices, Both have been consistently performing. It's not a shock as Eskridge is talented and now he is fighting for his roster spot. Eskridge's issue is his health the talent is there but he cant stay on the field and is so fragile he reminds me of Percy Harvin. Both JSN and Eskridge are "quicker than fast" and thats the type of WR that will give our CB's issues.

Tre Brown now is a disappointment, remember this guy was rated as high as a 2nd round pick talent that fell to the Hawks in the 4th and he looks like a 7th round pick out there. Once again health is the issue as he cant stay on the field. Alton Robinson, a talented player but couldn't stay on the field... The amount of cupcakes we have drafted in the past 8+ years is crazy.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Actually Eskridge has been a standout with JSN in most of the camps and practices, Both have been consistently performing. It's not a shock as Eskridge is talented and now he is fighting for his roster spot. Eskridge's issue is his health the talent is there but he cant stay on the field and is so fragile he reminds me of Percy Harvin. Both JSN and Eskridge are "quicker than fast" and thats the type of WR that will give our CB's issues.

Tre Brown now is a disappointment, remember this guy was rated as high as a 2nd round pick talent that fell to the Hawks in the 4th and he looks like a 7th round pick out there. Once again health is the issue as he cant stay on the field. Alton Robinson, a talented player but couldn't stay on the field... The amount of cupcakes we have drafted in the past 8+ years is crazy.

I laughed out loud at that.

 

[Screamin12th]

when i look back and see how much more violent the sport was in the 70-90's and how less violent it is today it's crazy how often these guys get hurt. I do believe it has a lot to do with the MUCH smaller pads they wear. The protective equipment use to be bigger and bulkier this slowed down the collisions and also added more "compression zones" to absorb those impacts. In todays games these guys pads are almost nonexistent. Yes the technology is much better but what good does it do when they also remove the "crumple zone" if you get my meaning. It's like being in a car and slamming into a wall at 30 MPH. The larger bulker equipment gave more ( larger compression area ) which reduced the impact on the body and now it's transferred right TO the body with the MUCH smaller compression area.

Also in the early days guys would play all the time with injuries, wrap it in tape and out they go. They LOVED the game they wanted to play and be out there. Now all they seem to want is to just be paid.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

 

[HaroldSeattle]

 

[HaroldSeattle]

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yah, he seems to possess all the skills to be great in zone, given he's a great tackler... but I believe he mostly played man in College where 1) it's easier to bully receivers (not as easy in the NFL) and 2) the refs will let you get away with a bit more grabbing (unless your name is Sauce Gardner). Everyone says he can play zone, but not sure from what I read he was playing a ton of it. And if you're that talented, you can prob. play anything at College, NFL is a whole other thing.

I'm not too concerned about him getting torched by Lockett and JSN. Lockett is a damn fine receiver who torches plenty of good corners... and JSN looks like a freak of nature at the moment. JSN has not just made like 1 or 2 big plays and that's the end of that (like Eskridge), he's making people look helpless day in and day out.

That said, Witherspoon did eventually run a 4.4 so I think he can stick with faster receivers, but I do think he needs to bulk up if he's going to play press.

Yeah he mostly played man coverage in college, which is a much different animal than playing zone. When you're playing straight man coverage, all you're concerned is about locking down the guy in front of you, irrespective of his route. In zone, you have to know where you're supposed to be, where your teammates are and when you're supposed to give off a route to another player.

I will say that Witherspoon is going against great WRs. I think JSN is the next Amon-Ra St. Brown. Hopefully they give him a ton of snaps.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Yeah he mostly played man coverage in college, which is a much different animal than playing zone. When you're playing straight man coverage, all you're concerned is about locking down the guy in front of you, irrespective of his route. In zone, you have to know where you're supposed to be, where your teammates are and when you're supposed to give off a route to another player.

I will say that Witherspoon is going against great WRs. I think JSN is the next Amon-Ra St. Brown. Hopefully they give him a ton of snaps.

Right. Everyone keeps saying "Oh he can play zone." And I'm like, "Uhh... okay?" lol.... I'm sure he did it a bit in College but zone in College vs. zone in the NFL is a completely different thing. Receivers in the NFL are all FAR better for the most part at running routes and are faster, etc. and QBs are trickier to read.

And yah, JSN is torching everyone in training camp lol and Lockett is difficult as is to keep up with. Witherspoon has likely never seen anything close to that level of WR play. Now the big question, can he adapt? I mean I'm sure he'll be lights out as a nickel corner, but drafting a nickel corner #5 overall? LOL... that'd be pretty pathetic... you expect a top 5 overall CB to be the #1 if anything...

 

[MrS]

I mean I'm sure he'll be lights out as a nickel corner, but drafting a nickel corner #5 overall? LOL..

Especially when a potentially generational talent at DT was there for the taking.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Especially when a potentially generational talent at DT was there for the taking.

He's not a generational talent for god sakes. That was just the hype IMO, certainly his stats didn't say generational talent.

 

[MrS]

He's not a generational talent for god sakes. That was just the hype IMO, certainly his stats didn't say generational talent.

He could be a bust, we will see.
But its highly questionable to take a guy at 5 thats not going to be filling a premier position.

 

[Anointed One]

Right. Everyone keeps saying "Oh he can play zone." And I'm like, "Uhh... okay?" lol.... I'm sure he did it a bit in College but zone in College vs. zone in the NFL is a completely different thing. Receivers in the NFL are all FAR better for the most part at running routes and are faster, etc. and QBs are trickier to read.

And yah, JSN is torching everyone in training camp lol and Lockett is difficult as is to keep up with. Witherspoon has likely never seen anything close to that level of WR play. Now the big question, can he adapt? I mean I'm sure he'll be lights out as a nickel corner, but drafting a nickel corner #5 overall? LOL... that'd be pretty pathetic... you expect a top 5 overall CB to be the #1 if anything...

I don't know... I’m not sure why teams have shied away from it... It’s obviously a critical position, and has high value in the league. Really, when you look at corners, basically you have three corners that are starters in professional football now...

Here are the latest CB's that were drafted within the top 5 of the 1st round...

• 2018 - Denzel Ward
• 2016 - Jalen Ramsey
• 2011 - Patrick Peterson

If Witherspoon doesn't end up in their company, I'd consider him a disappointment because that's whats going to be expected w/ the #5 overall pick at that position...