Austin Seferian-Jenkins

[dredinis21]

No offense, but Allen wouldn't have had a 1000 yards in Seattle. Just wouldn't have happened. To start the season, Allen is most likely behind Rice, Baldwin and Tate, and so it wouldn't have changed much for the first 8 games of the season except that Stephen Williams doesn't break camp with the team. There isn't anything to suggest that Kearse's improvement (which wasn't just minimal) wouldn't have put him higher on the depth chart than Allen. Even if Allen replaces the need of re-adding Lockette (who provided a boost on special teams coverage with Lane), and he gets everything that goes Kearse's way, we're talking about Allen ending the season with 500 yards receiving (as opposed to 430 by Kearse and Lockette) for Seattle.

Besides, Allen went in the third round, so trading for Harvin didn't keep us from drafting him. They drafted Christine Michael in the second. They could have just as easily taken him instead of a third string RB who spent a good portion of the season inactive and only got into 3 games. With that in mind, my post was more about Patterson than Allen.

The trade for Harvin only affected the picks of Cordarrelle Patterson, Justin Hunter and Robert Woods, as everyone else would have been there for the Seahawks 2nd round pick had they not traded down to the final pick of the second.

Your assumptions are that Allen would be running the same routes and getting open at the same rate as Kearse or anyone else you have on your roster, which is false. I watch a TON of Charger ball by default because I currently reside in LA and SD is played on CBS pretty frequently. Allen is an excellent route runner and is more quick then fast, which helps him get open with some serious regularity. Although I will agree with your assessment that Allen may not be a 1,000 yard WR in SEA, he also certainly wouldn't be 4th or lower on the depth chart for long, if at all. If PC is willing to take a serious look at a guy like RW over Flynn, then you cannot tell me that Allen's abilities wouldn't be noticed in TC and beyond.

Lastly, I used Allen in the argument because he was one of the options that the OP (I believe, or was it you? Or are you the OP?) used. He was considered a 1st rd talent, but hurt his PCL, didn't run at the combine, then ran a 4.7 at his pro day before he was 100% back from his injury, thus the draft plummet.

 

[RegentDenali]

I am not a draft guru, but I would guess ASJ is gone by the time we pick.

He's a projected 2nd round pick. We could draft him with the last pick in the 1st that we'll be positioned at, if we so desired.

 

[Destroydacre]

While it would be cool to get ASJ I agree the O-line needs to be the top priority. Wouldn't shock me at all though if Pete and Schneider were able to land ASJ and improve the O-line. Not saying they will or that I expect it, just that I wouldn't be at all surprised if they manage to pull it off. Will be interesting to see what they do. I'm kind of curious as well to see if NE might target him as a replacement for Aaron Hernandez/backup for the oft injured Gronkowski.

 

[gowazzu02]

Back to Allen quickly, Did you guys see the story that he was close to quitting football early this year cause he wasn't getting PT.

That tells me two things.
A: IF we drafted him,,,,he probably would of walked away cause as has been noted he wouldn't of played alot the first half of the year, and when he did play his touchs would of been low cause of our offense.

B: We never would of drafted him, PC/JS don't take in guys that don't have "it" now I dont know what It is, I just know that RW, Sherm, KJ, Kam, ET etc. have it. and I think "It": is atleast a insane LOVE for football......

 

[blstoker]

Your assumptions are that Allen would be running the same routes and getting open at the same rate as Kearse or anyone else you have on your roster, which is false. I watch a TON of Charger ball by default because I currently reside in LA and SD is played on CBS pretty frequently. Allen is an excellent route runner and is more quick then fast, which helps him get open with some serious regularity. Although I will agree with your assessment that Allen may not be a 1,000 yard WR in SEA, he also certainly wouldn't be 4th or lower on the depth chart for long, if at all. If PC is willing to take a serious look at a guy like RW over Flynn, then you cannot tell me that Allen's abilities wouldn't be noticed in TC and beyond.

Lastly, I used Allen in the argument because he was one of the options that the OP (I believe, or was it you? Or are you the OP?) used. He was considered a 1st rd talent, but hurt his PCL, didn't run at the combine, then ran a 4.7 at his pro day before he was 100% back from his injury, thus the draft plummet.

No, my assumption is that Bevell won't change how he runs the offense for anyone. He didn't even change his play calling when we lost 3 starting OLinemen and had another playing out of position.

As for his depth chart position, you are right that it's all speculation, but I'm pretty confident that unless Allen beat out Sydney Rice (which seems unlikely), his best position on the depth chart starting the season would have been #4. At that position (even the #3) there just isn't enough balls to get much. Tate and Baldwin are by far the fav targets of the team, and between the two of them they account for nearly half of the Seahawk passing offense. Backs and TE account for nearly as much. Outside of the top two guys, there's only 43 catches by WRs all season (Kearse 22; Rice 15; Lockette 5; Harvin 1).

It's not that I think Allen isn't good, it's that I am happy with the strides that the receivers we have have made. I've been extremely critical of the WRs in Seattle, but they've come a long way this year, and even if Harvin comes back, the oldest one is 25 (Harvin, Tate & Baldwin). I don't see trading for Harvin as a negative. Yes, the money's an issue if he can't get healthy (but in the NFL you can cut with minnimum damage if that's the case) but if Seattle did have a first round pick, then they would have been just as likely to draft Quinton Patton with that pick as they would have been to draft Keenan Allen.

 

[dredinis21]

No, my assumption is that Bevell won't change how he runs the offense for anyone. He didn't even change his play calling when we lost 3 starting OLinemen and had another playing out of position.

As for his depth chart position, you are right that it's all speculation, but I'm pretty confident that unless Allen beat out Sydney Rice (which seems unlikely), his best position on the depth chart starting the season would have been #4. At that position (even the #3) there just isn't enough balls to get much. Tate and Baldwin are by far the fav targets of the team, and between the two of them they account for nearly half of the Seahawk passing offense. Backs and TE account for nearly as much. Outside of the top two guys, there's only 43 catches by WRs all season (Kearse 22; Rice 15; Lockette 5; Harvin 1).

It's not that I think Allen isn't good, it's that I am happy with the strides that the receivers we have have made. I've been extremely critical of the WRs in Seattle, but they've come a long way this year, and even if Harvin comes back, the oldest one is 25 (Harvin, Tate & Baldwin). I don't see trading for Harvin as a negative. Yes, the money's an issue if he can't get healthy (but in the NFL you can cut with minnimum damage if that's the case) but if Seattle did have a first round pick, then they would have been just as likely to draft Quinton Patton with that pick as they would have been to draft Keenan Allen.

Fair enough. I disagree with the notion that Sidney Rice would be ahead of him considering that Rice seemed to be your team's 4th WR option and sliding quickly before injury. I also didn't say that Bevell would have to change anything, my comment was geared towards the notion that Allen would have been more successful running the same routes as Kearse or Baldwin because he is simply a better WR. I guess the idea that he would do more with the same opportunities. It's simply my observation and you obviously watch more Hawk ball then I do, so it is what it is.

Again, the OP was the one that threw Allen and Patterson out as the variables to swap into the scenario, not me. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 so it's easy for us couch GMs to say our teams should have picked him or to stay away from that guy. I thought the Harvin trade was a calculated risk and frankly, the jury is still out. I don't think this one injury riddled season all of the sudden makes the Harvin trade a shit deal. I think Harvin is scary good (when healthy) if you have a OC that is creative, much in the same light that I see Patterson. I see Allen as more like Crabtree, a better traditional possession WR that will get you the tough yards but will occasionally dust a DB or two on the perimeter if you try to jam him. My initial reaction to the trade was, "OH FUCK THAT COULD BE SCARY" but his hip obviously had other plans.

 

[Podunkparte]

Fair enough. I disagree with the notion that Sidney Rice would be ahead of him considering that Rice seemed to be your team's 4th WR option and sliding quickly before injury. I also didn't say that Bevell would have to change anything, my comment was geared towards the notion that Allen would have been more successful running the same routes as Kearse or Baldwin because he is simply a better WR. I guess the idea that he would do more with the same opportunities. It's simply my observation and you obviously watch more Hawk ball then I do, so it is what it is.

Again, the OP was the one that threw Allen and Patterson out as the variables to swap into the scenario, not me. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 so it's easy for us couch GMs to say our teams should have picked him or to stay away from that guy. I thought the Harvin trade was a calculated risk and frankly, the jury is still out. I don't think this one injury riddled season all of the sudden makes the Harvin trade a shit deal. I think Harvin is scary good (when healthy) if you have a OC that is creative, much in the same light that I see Patterson. I see Allen as more like Crabtree, a better traditional possession WR that will get you the tough yards but will occasionally dust a DB or two on the perimeter if you try to jam him. My initial reaction to the trade was, "OH FUCK THAT COULD BE SCARY" but his hip obviously had other plans.

I don't know what you were looking at but Rice has always been our #1 guy. He's got the combination of size, hands, and body control that the others don't. We just haven't been a pass heavy offense so our #1 doesn't look like guys like Megatron, Brandon Marshall, etc. as far as targets and overall stats. Sydney Rice was never anywhere near our #4 receiver.

 

[dredinis21]

I don't know what you were looking at but Rice has always been our #1 guy. He's got the combination of size, hands, and body control that the others don't. We just haven't been a pass heavy offense so our #1 doesn't look like guys like Megatron, Brandon Marshall, etc. as far as targets and overall stats. Sydney Rice was never anywhere near our #4 receiver.

His stats leading up to his injury prove otherwise when comparing to his teammates. By the time he got injured, he was IIRC 4th among your WR in snaps and 4th amongst WR in receptions. Neither of those are #1 WR material. Maybe in years past, but many of you have been calling for him to be cut this offseason...and that was prior to the injury. What fan base says that about their #1 WR?

 

[blstoker]

His stats leading up to his injury prove otherwise when comparing to his teammates. By the time he got injured, he was IIRC 4th among your WR in snaps and 4th amongst WR in receptions. Neither of those are #1 WR material. Maybe in years past, but many of you have been calling for him to be cut this offseason...and that was prior to the injury. What fan base says that about their #1 WR?

First, you're full of it. He wasn't 4th among WRs in snaps when he got hurt. In 7 games, Rice played 313 snaps going into week 8 (the week he was hurt) which was 2nd to Tate's 345. Not 4th. Even if you insist on using his partial game that game against Baldwin's full game, he's 3rd with 331 where Baldwin was slightly ahead of him with 334.

As for targets, Rice's 35 was again 2nd on the team after week 7, behind only Tate's 46. He even stayed in second after the Ram's game, with Baldwin getting only 1 target that game, bringing his total up to 30. So, even if you think that #1 WR only means that he gets the most targets, Rice was never the team's #4.

So, just about your entire post is incorrect. Rice was no worse than the Seahawks #2 (though, IMO a #1 WR is more than just who get's the most targets, its a position). Many people were predicting Rice's cutting based on the fact that we are a team that doesn't throw the ball enough to pay any WR $10 million, and that with only $8 in expected cap space for next season, it was a move that would generate more cap space next season. The same people speculating that Rice would be released/restructured also said the same thing about Chris Clemons, Cliff Avril Red Bryant, Brandon Mebane, Zach Miller and Marshawn Lynch. Each of those players is a significant piece to the team, and each is making a lot of money that could be used to re-sign guys like Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin and Michael Bennett, or even help extend Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman. Don't read too much into what fans were thinking was a business move (for the most part).

Anyway, no matter what you want to think about Sydney Rice and whether he would have started over Allen (which he would have), the fact remains that the Percy Harvin trade had nothing to do with whether Seattle drafted Allen or not, because he was still there when they picked in the second round and Seattle didn't pick him then, either.