Aug 1 Pirates

[thecrow124]

To expound on what I was saying yesterday, having a night to think about it I would say this. I would love to have Stanton, but I would not want to pay the price. It has been so long since we have had a strong team that we tend to get blinders on when it comes to the major league team.

Living near Milwaukee and seeing the way they have gone about things over the last 4 years or so, I would not want this to happen to the Pirates. Sure they had a good run for a few years, but they are currently staring at being very very bad for 3-5 years because they have no prospects. The ones they do have they have no idea how to develop.

 

[element1286]

Not interested in paying the price for Stanton, two top 25 prospects is too much.

 

[ramburgh]

I agree with element. The Pirates will never be the Yankees. The farm system is important and to ruin what has been built would do more harm than the good of having Stanton on the team. However, if the asking price is something the wouldn't involve Taillon, then it might be worth figuring something out.

 

[element1286]

Not gonna lie, I like the way the team is constructed, other than a solid UT infielder to replace Inge, I don't see much the team needs. The teams fits together, and everyone has a clearly defined role. There are definitely weak spots for sure, notably First Base, and RF, but those positions are passable, and aren't bringing the team down.

That is assuming of course that Wandy and AJ are healthy.

 

[Illinest]

We don't need stanton but we do need a RF who can hit in the middle of the order. Snider, tabata and presley have had many chances and i'm not seeing it. Maybe one of them will figure it out later in his career and become another garrett jones? I'm not saying we need to cut bait on any of them. We just need to accept that at this point in their career they are all backup outfielders.

There are a few guys who would improve our lineup but wouldn't cost us any huge prospects. Go for one of them. The goal should be to bridge the gap until polanco and/or bell is ready.

 

[element1286]

We don't need stanton but we do need a RF who can hit in the middle of the order. Snider, tabata and presley have had many chances and i'm not seeing it. Maybe one of them will figure it out later in his career and become another garrett jones? I'm not saying we need to cut bait on any of them. We just need to accept that at this point in their career they are all backup outfielders.

There are a few guys who would improve our lineup but wouldn't cost us any huge prospects. Go for one of them. The goal should be to bridge the gap until polanco and/or bell is ready.

Which guys are you referring to? I don't see much that are clear upgrades a la Hunter Pence last year. Unless I'm missing someone obvious.

Plus, how do you move the roster around to keep them all, while still bringing in someone from the outside? None of those guys are DFA types, and they are out of options too.

 

[sychmd]

our RF and SS are 14 out of 15 in OPS in the NL.
that is seriously dragging us down.
mercer will upgrade SS, but we arent too far from the mean.
RF, we are far from the mean and we need more offense.
we can get away with good D and timely hitting/contribution from our RF contingent if cutch, pedro, marte, martin, walker are all raking.
1B OPS is 4th with sanchez and jones - a nice complement i am satisfied with as this is a downyear for 1B.
we need to keep taillon and cole though.

 

[thedddd]

Which guys are you referring to? I don't see much that are clear upgrades a la Hunter Pence last year. Unless I'm missing someone obvious.

Plus, how do you move the roster around to keep them all, while still bringing in someone from the outside? None of those guys are DFA types, and they are out of options too.

Yeah I see where two top 25 prospects are way too much for Stanton but they would control him for a while so giving up Polanco or Marte with others would be fine with me.

Anyway there isn't much in the OF department that I don't think would be a huge upgrade but a few might come cheap like Willingham, Doumit (yeah probably could get him for the PTBNL and the only reason why I have him on the list I was looking at the Twins..), DeJesus, Francoeur and a few guys that they would be stuck paying next year would be Soriano and Rios. With Alex Rios though I wonder if the Sox consider themselves sellers and would want to part with him?

 

[Illinest]

Willingham and Rios are the primary targets in my mind.

 

[sychmd]

the phillies are fading.
their farm is depleted after going for the ring and getting oswalt, halliday, lee (twice), pence, and others.
howard, utley, rollins have big contracts, and not productive anymore.
brown is their only chip to get a bunch of players.
they usually go for quantity over quality (or at least amaro gets sucked into that).
they arent going to win for awhile either.
based on their GM's past track record, we could get brown for 4-5 players not named polanco, taillon, cole, hanson, bell, heredia, allie.
we could send cumpton, pimental, oliver, lambo, sadler, and other promising A+, A pitchers and hitters.

they will also be dumping lee as well for bodies.

i wouldnt go for the doumits, franceurs, willinghams. not much gain and risk throwing off chemistry and roles, plus giving up viable chips for other trades/injuries.
if we trade, we get a real piece that has impact and will be with us awhile to fit into the family and chemistry that is being built. that way our good guys want to stay when they get the option and give a bit of a home town discount for the clubhouse comraderie, winning, fun city, great ballpark, etc.
getting a rental or giving up family for a marginal piece really undermines the loyalty and long term togetherness that is necessary for a small budget team to excel because we need all the intangibles we can get.

 

[Etrius24]

Willingham is still a pretty good power bat... if the asking price was reasonable... I say hell yes! I would not wait until the trade deadline either when other teams would be driving up the cost to prevent the Pirates from getting a bat like this... I do not think the Cards or the Reds would sit idly by while the Pirates added a quality bat to their lineup at the deadline... If said bat was cheap they would get him to prevent the pirates from getting him.

 

[Etrius24]

If we trade with the Marlins I would give them any pitching prospect not named Heredia or Taillon... and any positional prospect not named Hanson or Polanco... and to round it out they could have Tabata and Gomez...

 

[thecrow124]

If we trade with the Marlins I would give them any pitching prospect not named Heredia or Taillon... and any positional prospect not named Hanson or Polanco... and to round it out they could have Tabata and Gomez...

We aren't talking about trading for Logan Morrison, the talk was surrounding Giancarlo Stanton and what you mention does not get Stanton. I would also rather keep Glasnow than Heredia.

 

[Etrius24]

Keeping Heredia is debatable ....fine.... The fact remains that Heredia or Glasnow are both fine prospects....as good as any other contending team is likely to offer. Either one are worthy of being part of a deal for Giancarlo... The Marlins are not going to get a better pitching prospect than Heredia or glasnow...And a prospect like Barret Barnes is not chopped liver either.... Neither is Josh Bell!!!!

Heredia and Bell are more than enough if you include a couple of other throw ins...

Giancarlo is not going to command a pitching prospect like cole or Taillon.... no way....

 

[thecrow124]

Keeping Heredia is debatable ....fine.... The fact remains that Heredia or Glasnow are both fine prospects....as good as any other contending team is likely to offer. Either one are worthy of being part of a deal for Giancarlo... The Marlins are not going to get a better pitching prospect than Heredia or glasnow...And a prospect like Barret Barnes is not chopped liver either.... Neither is Josh Bell!!!!

Heredia and Bell are more than enough if you include a couple of other throw ins...

Giancarlo is not going to command a pitching prospect like cole or Taillon.... no way....

We are going to have to disagree. Giancarlo's trade value is equal to Taillon, Polanco, Tony Sanchez and another mid-level pitcher like McPherson or Irwin. That would be equal value, throw in the fact that he may not even be on the trade block and you could actually say that the Marlins could hold out for more. But, lets not forget I have said I would not be in favor of any trade involving Taillon and/or Polanco.

I never said that Glasnow or Heredia weren't good prospects, I just stated that if I had a preference I would keep Glasnow. Both however are very good prospects.

If I Huntington could get Stanton for Heredia and Bell plus throw-ins, don't you think he would have already done that trade, heck I would have been all over that if I were a gm.

There were at least two articles written last week that talked about Stanton to the Pirates, both articles had the exact same 3 names, Taillon, Polanco and Tony Sanchez, plus others. But I am also on the record as saying I would prefer to keep Taillon and trade Cole, just because in the long run I think Taillon will be the better pitcher.

But anyway, you have your opinion, so as wrong as I may think it is, I will respect it.

Lastly, I do not believe Stanton will be traded, but if he is, I do not believe it will be to the Pirates. Of this I have no proof, only my best guess.

 

[Etrius24]

Crow,

Fair enough...

I just do not see his trade value being that high ( Stanton ) The Marlins are a hot mess and they are as per usual in rebuild mode... Well every other year it seems. Maybe you are right and the Marlins get a king's ransom for Stanton.. I remember some trades where the Marlins got a lot less than the kind of return you are indicating. This is especially true when other teams in the league knew they were going to dump someone because of salary.

I am completely against Stanton if it means we have to give up taillon, polanco and other pieces... So on that we agree 100%

I would far rather they trade McDonald to the twins for Willingham... But if they are in fact going to pull the trigger I would rather see them do it now... Willingham is more than capable of hitting 12-14 homeruns in the second half for this team... That power is going to be desperately needed.

Some do not want to rent a player for a single season... and while I would greatly prefer they get Stanton at a reasonable rate and then lock the guy up to a multi year contract... But I do not want this team to pass up on the chance to get into the post season...

This year is different than last season because for a long time it was a team carried heavily by McCutchen...This team has a great bullpen like last year.. but this team has more depth in the rotation than last year...And this team can score runs other ways because of Sanchez, Martin Mercer and Marte...

It sucks that we happen to be in the same division as the other two top teams in the NL this year.. But it is what it is... If the Pirates want to make the post season then their best chance of making that happen is to find a way to bolster the offense a little.

And if they have to slightly overpay for a bat like Willingham..( for example ) I can live with it if it means the Pirates win more games than they lose and make the post season.

With this great young rotation.. McCutchen and Marte... A post season berth would change the way players see this organization and almost overnight players would want to come here as free agents.. because of the ballpark.. no pressure and the chance to win.

Plus I think we would all go out of our fucking minds to see the bucs in the post season.

 

[sychmd]

too much good chemistry to bring in a random short stay piece,
if we trade, we go big. can we go big without giving up to many of our major pieces on the farm.
no on giving up taillon, cole, heredia (one hit in 5 innings at low A) could be in high A by end of this year), polanco, and bell. if they have to have one, give them bell.
lee and hallady got bulk and not quality.
some know the morket is limited and need quantity, like we did initially, and we have plenty of decent quality to give them.
we can be patient and wait for that primo piece for our puzzle that allows us to throw our quantity and not quality at the needy seller.
we used to need LF, RF, SS, 3B, 1B, SP, and C.
now we have:
LF - marte doing above expectations and should get better. maybe a number 2 hitter.
SS - mercer hopefully will be above ave at plate and ave on D. we can still get something but not a dire need like when we had cedeno and then barmes 2012-13.
3B - pedro is getting better. slow starter and we have to figure that out for the future.
1B - nice platoon that gives us bench strength also
SP - we have excess and people waiting in the minors
C - martin, above ave, and sanchez proving he is not a bust so far.
RF - fits in ok for our team, but compared to league, #15.

 

[Etrius24]

Sychmd

As the season wears on we have seen Martin and Sanchez cool off a bit...And now that Marte is not hitting .330 ish he looks somewhat pedestrian.

We all love Cutch and Pedro has a lot of power... But this team needs another bat... If they could get a bat for the last outfield spot that would be a nice boost for this offense.

 

[sychmd]

Sychmd

As the season wears on we have seen Martin and Sanchez cool off a bit...And now that Marte is not hitting .330 ish he looks somewhat pedestrian.

We all love Cutch and Pedro has a lot of power... But this team needs another bat... If they could get a bat for the last outfield spot that would be a nice boost for this offense.

i agree, we do need a bat, but my position is that a rental for a so-so player who isnt going to be part of the continued building process isnt the path to take.

if we make a move, we go for someone who is a big upgrade, young, and will fit into our chemistry. that is the message we want to give to the rest of the players.

if we cant find one, that is fine. this year isnt our year, but an exciting prelude.

 

[thedddd]

Trust me I am not for trading all that for Stanton but that is the asking price. There is a few items that need to be realized. He is only 23 and isn't eligible for FA until 2017 so he wouldn't be a short term fit into the club. Since that is the case I have no issue with Polanco going but not sure I would like Taillon over Cole or Heredia.

I would not be upset in the least if they made that trade.