America's team? That's right. The Lakers.

[trojanfan12]

hey hey hey ....cmon now- Trojan- i know you are of the age to remember the days of "The Miracle of Richfield"- and the Cavs did have some really good teams that were estopped from possible title(s) by MJ (with Daughterty, Price, Nance, Ehlo, Hot Rod etc)

but why i am hesitant to agree with you guys on "what history has shown us" with teams that have done well in the past is the new CBA

its inarguable that the NBA is drastically changed. I mean-the league is almost unregonizable from 20-30 years ago when at one time- the finals were on tape delay- and the only national games on were Celtics/Lakers games on Sunday afternoon-

Now- it does not matter one iota where you play. When LeBron was in Cleveland the first time- both him and Dwight were the most marketable players in the league by a fair margin- and they were situatied in Orlando and Cleveland- markets that are not even in the top 15 (or 20 probably for that matter) in the United States

the new CBA has leveled the playing like never before. A lot of teams that have been historically good could just outspend other teams. Other teams like the Lakers find themselves in an uncertain spot having lost their owner who was a genius- and replacing him with a guy who- to be nice- has not exactly inspired a lot of confidence lately. Super stars would flock to major markets to get exposure and they just dont need to do that anymore. Kevin Durant and LeBron are in Oklahoma City and Cleveland for shits sake.

Every team now has Ivy League educated GM's using advanced statistical analysis. Their are billions of dollars on the line. The rules have been changed so its much easier for teams to resign their own players.

The environment in the NBA is just not even close to whatit used to be- even 10 years ago- let alone 20-30 years ago.

i mean look what we saw just a few years ago- a commissioner vetoeing atrade ofa star to the Lakers- and then that star going to the Clippers- a franchise that historically has been an absolute joke. Its been hotly debated whether Howard leaving was a good thing or a bad thing- but 20 years ago it would have been absolutely shocking to see a majorly sought after free agent walk away from the Lakers to go to Houston.

This is a totally changed set of rules the NBA is operating on- and its why I believe how your team used to be has never meant less.

If you dont agree with me- i totally respect that- and i would love to hear your arguments. I really enjoy posting on here and hearing other peoples points of view and opinions- even ifyou dont agree its something that makes you smarter and gives you another view point to approach the issue.

First of all, I loved those Cavs teams. I hated the Bulls and pulled for those Cavs teams every time they played them. Larry Nance was one of my favorite players in the league at the time.

The CBA has not changed things as much as you'd like to think. Players are still going to go the the teams that can pay them the most and have shown they can win titles. The Lakers are set to have plenty of cap flexibility over the next couple of seasons and that's before the cap increases when the new CBA hits after next season. This is expected to swing the pendulum once again in favor of the larger market teams.

The Stern veto wasn't done to the Lakers or to maintain any competitive balance. It was done because the league was trying to sell the team and CP3 was their only marketable asset. If the same trade had come up after the team was sold or before the league took control, it would have been approved. It was just bad timing for the Lakers and a conflict of interest on Stern's part.

As for Dwight. Dwight is a child. Plain and simple. In my opinion, while it was a mistake by the Lakers (hiring D'Antoni when they could have had Phil) that led to him leaving. I believe they will be better in the long run because I don't believe that Dwight has what it takes to lead a team to a title.

 

[WiggyRuss]

also-

I also have to say the fanbase advantage to LA- playing in front of packed houses and Jack and Denzel is pretty darn cool

The heat...ehh...not so much a fan base advantage...lol

 

[trojanfan12]

also-

I also have to say the fanbase advantage to LA- playing in front of packed houses and Jack and Denzel is pretty darn cool

The heat...ehh...not so much a fan base advantage...lol

<looks around for turnup>

Hey, the Heat have Justin Bieber dammit.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I lived the first 26 years of my life in the Cleveland area. it's pretty bad.
Other than James being there now and or being overpaid to be there as a player, WHY would any player want or choose to be there if they have multiple equal choices?

as a side not- to defend Cleveland

i lived dtown in 2007-2008- the year the Indians made the ALCS and blew it against Boston and the year the Cavs made the finals.

You honestly had to leave downtown after 9pm to go get a burger. Where I lived- there was a restaraunt downstairs where 2 male nurses from the cleveland clinic were dragged out of and shot in the back of the head in a park across from my complex. It was pretty bad

Now I got to law school downtown and the transformation has been amazing to me. The Cleveland theater district is right by the law school and is the best in the country outside of New York- and its really cleaned up the city

the Cleveland Clinic Foundation has really poured jobs and money into the area- i have to imagine fi you lived in Cleveland you are familair with CCF- as its the 2nd or 3rd best hospital conglomerate in the country with branches all over the world....

East 4th street and the warehouse district are really great places to go out....there has been literally billions in investment from the medical mart, to new convention center, to casinos, new high rises coming- i mean- there is a reason Cleveland was just granted the Republican National Convention in 2016.

I am sure if you ever had a reason to visit you would be utterly shocked. The Flats died pretty much though until extremely recently when the East bank was redone for about 1/2 a billion....and is really nice...

 

[WiggyRuss]

<looks around for turnup>

Hey, the Heat have Justin Bieber dammit.

i mean...you have to show up before half time as well to be a good fan base....and i feel bad saying that because the more salt-of-the-earth Heat fans that occupy the upper deck are good fans- but when you flip on Heat games and the lower bowl is empty well into the game its a little disappointing- especially when you have a team like they did.

however- thatmight have just been a symptom of the spectacle that was there - people going more to be seen- and say they were there- then that they actually liked basketball....

in a way to the normal fan i would ahve to say thats a nice silver lining to lebron leaving

 

[WiggyRuss]

as for your canes....those 30/30 on them have been pretty awesome...

I mean- the ACC is right there for the taking....especially now with Winston gone...Miami is actually a pretty small school isnt it?

 

[DJ]

On behalf of the Heat, I can say that almost all NBA players love what South Beach offers.
They love the weather here during basketball season.
They love the no state tax.
They know that they can trust and depend on Riley/Arison to keep the cupboard full for the most part.


I know the obvious about LA, but not much more. I'll defer to Lakers fans.

I do agree the next CBA will be very interesting and also agree that many other cities offer different intangibles.

I lived the first 26 years of my life in the Cleveland area. it's pretty bad.
Other than James being there now and or being overpaid to be there as a player, WHY would any player want or choose to be there if they have multiple equal choices?

Don't forget the women of South Beach.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i mean...you have to show up before half time as well to be a good fan base....and i feel bad saying that because the more salt-of-the-earth Heat fans that occupy the upper deck are good fans- but when you flip on Heat games and the lower bowl is empty well into the game its a little disappointing- especially when you have a team like they did.

I have been at most Heat games since they moved to the AAA.
The fans are pretty similar to most other cities.
It expensive and time consuming.
Most people aren't investing the cash or the time to see a bad product.
That isn't a Miami thing, it's an sports/entertainment thing.

As far as the lower bowl looking empty early in games and sometimes in the 3rd qtr, I can tell you it's a combination of horrible traffic, the Miami culture of usually being late to everything, and often times people getting there and choosing to have dinner in one of the Flagship Lounges before the game, and then a large group does the same at halftime.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

<looks around for turnup>

Hey, the Heat have Justin Bieber dammit.

Don't forget FloRida

 

[WiggyRuss]

I have been at most Heat games since they moved to the AAA.
The fans are pretty similar to most other cities.
It expensive and time consuming.
Most people aren't investing the cash or the time to see a bad product.
That isn't a Miami thing, it's an sports/entertainment thing.

As far as the lower bowl looking empty early in games and sometimes in the 3rd qtr, I can tell you it's a combination of horrible traffic, the Miami culture of usually being late to everything, and often times people getting there and choosing to have dinner in one of the Flagship Lounges before the game, and then a large group does the same at halftime.

I edited my passage and brought up the important point of that with the Big 3 there was a "spectacle" aspect to it- and people who werent great basketball fans often went to just be seen- and say they went- and i am sure that contributed to it- and i also added its probably a silver lining to the normal fan that those types are probably mostly gone now...


anyway- i appreciate the sincere dialogue from you guys- definitely interesting...

I was not going anywhere tonight- i worked at my clerkship this morning and then had class in the afternoon and its freezing out- and im not driving back downtown after being there already today...im more than happy to be lazy and bs a little with you guys and just watch the Cavs later.

 

[trojanfan12]

I have been at most Heat games since they moved to the AAA.
The fans are pretty similar to most other cities.
It expensive and time consuming.
Most people aren't investing the cash or the time to see a bad product.
That isn't a Miami thing, it's an sports/entertainment thing.

As far as the lower bowl looking empty early in games and sometimes in the 3rd qtr, I can tell you it's a combination of horrible traffic, the Miami culture of usually being late to everything, and often times people getting there and choosing to have dinner in one of the Flagship Lounges before the game, and then a large group does the same at halftime.

Having lived in Florida for a few years, it's more a Florida culture of being late. The first thing I was told when I moved to Florida was "throw away your watch".

Drove my Cali friends crazy when I moved back. I had fully integrated into the "I'll be there when I get there" attitude.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

as a side not- to defend Cleveland

i lived dtown in 2007-2008- the year the Indians made the ALCS and blew it against Boston and the year the Cavs made the finals.

You honestly had to leave downtown after 9pm to go get a burger. Where I lived- there was a restaraunt downstairs where 2 male nurses from the cleveland clinic were dragged out of and shot in the back of the head in a park across from my complex. It was pretty bad

Now I got to law school downtown and the transformation has been amazing to me. The Cleveland theater district is right by the law school and is the best in the country outside of New York- and its really cleaned up the city

the Cleveland Clinic Foundation has really poured jobs and money into the area- i have to imagine fi you lived in Cleveland you are familair with CCF- as its the 2nd or 3rd best hospital conglomerate in the country with branches all over the world....

East 4th street and the warehouse district are really great places to go out....there has been literally billions in investment from the medical mart, to new convention center, to casinos, new high rises coming- i mean- there is a reason Cleveland was just granted the Republican National Convention in 2016.

I am sure if you ever had a reason to visit you would be utterly shocked. The Flats died pretty much though until extremely recently when the East bank was redone for about 1/2 a billion....and is really nice...

I was there for a couple days this summer.
Downtown is built up. Goes hand in hand with the casino.

Point is, players aren't living in that area.
The weather sucks.
Players don't trust the front office.

 

[trojanfan12]

I edited my passage and brought up the important point of that with the Big 3 there was a "spectacle" aspect to it- and people who werent great basketball fans often went to just be seen- and say they went- and i am sure that contributed to it- and i also added its probably a silver lining to the normal fan that those types are probably mostly gone now...


anyway- i appreciate the sincere dialogue from you guys- definitely interesting...

I was not going anywhere tonight- i worked at my clerkship this morning and then had class in the afternoon and its freezing out- and im not driving back downtown after being there already today...im more than happy to be lazy and bs a little with you guys and just watch the Cavs later.

It was mid 70's here.

 

[WiggyRuss]

i think ive seen Dion actually spring back on defense a few times in this OKC/GSW game...lol....he had a pretty solid game tonight...

nice win for OKC

 

[WiggyRuss]

It was mid 70's here.

i would be ecstatic if it was 35

it actually is not relatively terrible out- most of this week and last week the temp lingered in the 5-10 degree area....its at least like 20-25 today...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

as for your canes....those 30/30 on them have been pretty awesome...

I mean- the ACC is right there for the taking....especially now with Winston gone...Miami is actually a pretty small school isnt it?

UM is a very small, private school.
Around 10,000 students.

As far as the Canes, most people are blaming the coaching. Some blame Shalala. Who knows?
All I do know is they are perceived as underachievers most years, so there has to be a reason.
It makes no sense when several players perform better on Sunday's then on Saturday's.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

It was mid 70's here.

Seems chilly.
Need a sweater?

 

[Black Adam]

Seems chilly.
Need a sweater?

funny considering we act like we're freezing to death when the temps hit the low 60's...

 

[WiggyRuss]

UM is a very small, private school.
Around 10,000 students.

As far as the Canes, most people are blaming the coaching. Some blame Shalala. Who knows?
All I do know is they are perceived as underachievers most years, so there has to be a reason.
It makes no sense when several players perform better on Sunday's then on Saturday's.

i do have to regrettably inform you that the best sporting event I have ever watched was the 2002 National Championship Game...

I was in undergrad and bullied into taking the Bucks straight up against that just absolute Goliath of a team. That has to be one of the most stacked teams talent wise in NCAA history.


that OSU team was no where near as skilled. They had won a number of games by very slim margins. Tressell just had them playing mistake free "tressell ball"- with great special teams, field position, limit turnovers.....

Also- Bernie Kosar- was my first "sports hero"

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Seems chilly.
Need a sweater?

Not at 75 degrees. I came home from the gym in my shorts after 4:00 p.m.