America's team? That's right. The Lakers.

[Black Adam]

Its one season.

How many Finals have the Cavs been in since 1978?
How many titles have they won?

Now,answer the same questions substituting the word Lakers for Cavs.

Now what is humiliating?

Bingo...!!!

 

[WiggyRuss]

Its one season.

How many Finals have the Cavs been in since 1978?
How many titles have they won?

Now,answer the same questions substituting the word Lakers for Cavs.

Now what is humiliating?

this is always the predictable rallying call of a fan of a hopelessly crappy team- "WE USED TO BE GOOD!"

during the season nobody cares what you DID...especially when certain things are decades and decades in the past- i mean - before they were even born-decades ago....

you guys keep that up....

ill watch my team compete for a title this year....its not a hard decision to say which one is more entertaining.


all though maybe i should try that next time the Browns suck...."The Browns used to be football Royalty! arguably the best coach, player, and qb of all time- the Hall of Fame built an hour away since its the birthplace of football- a team named after the legendary coach"

yah....it just falls really flat...why does it fall flat? because no one cares

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

this is always the predictable rallying call of a fan of a hopelessly crappy team- "WE USED TO BE GOOD!"

during the season nobody cares what you DID...especially when certain things are decades and decades in the past- i mean - before they were even born-decades ago....

you guys keep that up....

ill watch my team compete for a title this year....its not a hard decision to say which one is more entertaining.


all though maybe i should try that next time the Browns suck...."The Browns used to be football Royalty! arguably the best coach, player, and qb of all time- the Hall of Fame built an hour away since its the birthplace of football- a team named after the legendary coach"

yah....it just falls really flat...why does it fall flat? because no one cares

Used to be good?
The Heat are THE CURRENT 4 time EC represenatives in the NBA Finals.
The Lakers were champions just before the Heat.

Yes, both teams are pretty much crap this season but who really thought they would be any good?

As far as your team. What have you seen other than your crazy predictions that would lead you to believe that they will be competing for any championship this season?

Matter of FACT, last time I looked, they were a whopping 2.5 games ahead of my crappy team, which also included a head to head loss on national TV in front of the whole basketball watching world.

How about an avi bet right now for 30 or more days?
I say your team IS NOT contending for an NBA championship this season ( meaning I don't feel they will be in the Finals).

 

[WiggyRuss]

Used to be good?
The Heat are THE CURRENT 4 time EC represenatives in the NBA Finals.
The Lakers were champions just before the Heat.

Yes, both teams are pretty much crap this season but who really thought they would be any good?

As far as your team. What have you seen other than your crazy predictions that would lead you to believe that they will be competing for any championship this season?

Matter of FACT, last time I looked, they were a whopping 2.5 games ahead of my crappy team, which also included a head to head loss on national TV in front of the whole basketball watching world.

How about an avi bet right now for 30 or more days?
I say your team IS NOT contending for an NBA championship this season ( meaning I don't feel they will be in the Finals).

I would gladly take that bet on the condition that if LeBron or Love sustain an injury that causes them to miss games in the playoffs its void. I am not talking about just a sore back or sore knees that everyone gets- I am talking about an injury that forces them to miss full games- not just limits them because they have the normal injuries you get in a season- or even the fairly substantial injuries that guys play through but are obviously hobbled. I am talkingabout- LeBron got an MCL sprain is out....Love has serious back problems and is out.

30 days sounds reasonable. However- I do have to warn you- unless something changes I will be taking the bar exam at the end of July- and even if the Cavs win the title- its not like i will be able to be here a whole lot. I am just saying this because i dont want you to be mad if i dont show up everyday or even a majority of days since i will be taking the most important test of my life...If you wanted to postpone the payoff of the bet to the beginning of the next season that would be reasonable to me- but ill leave that for you to decide.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I would gladly take that bet on the condition that if LeBron or Love sustain an injury that causes them to miss games in the playoffs its void. I am not talking about just a sore back or sore knees that everyone gets- I am talking about an injury that forces them to miss full games- not just limits them because they have the normal injuries you get in a season- or even the fairly substantial injuries that guys play through but are obviously hobbled. I am talkingabout- LeBron got an MCL sprain is out....Love has serious back problems and is out.

30 days sounds reasonable. However- I do have to warn you- unless something changes I will be taking the bar exam at the end of July- and even if the Cavs win the title- its not like i will be able to be here a whole lot. I am just saying this because i dont want you to be mad if i dont show up everyday or even a majority of days since i will be taking the most important test of my life...If you wanted to postpone the payoff of the bet to the beginning of the next season that would be reasonable to me- but ill leave that for you to decide.

Unfair.
Injuries are sometimes part of the game.
Why should you be exempt from injuries when any other playoff team could suffer the same fate?
IMO, the Bulls are team I'm banking on and they always seem to have injured players when it matters.

I totally get the studying part.
If you choose to accept the original bet we can delay 'payment' until later in the summer, or even the month of October leading into the season.

 

[WiggyRuss]

and what i have seen is that when this team is healthy- they play up to the level of their competition.....While at this point there is not a lot to go- the Cavs i believe have split with the Hawks- each winning a blow out ...the Cavs have taken 2/3 from Toronto and the only game Toronto won was when Lou Williams went insane....they beat the Bulls on their homecourt in the 2nd game of the season when they were hardly a team yet and have since made some nice moves to get better.....I totally understand these are limited sample sizes- but the only East team that even puts an ounce of fear in me is the Cavs- and with Drose at 17 and 5....they are really going to have to rely on an unproven Butler and a pretty old Pau Gasol- and with the Cavs trades i think they have done some evening up of the depth...

but thats why the play the games, we shall see...

 

[WiggyRuss]

Unfair.
Injuries are sometimes part of the game.
Why should you be exempt from injuries when any other playoff team could suffer the same fate?
IMO, the Bulls are team I'm banking on and they always seem to have injured players when it matters.

I totally get the studying part.
If you choose to accept the original bet we can delay 'payment' until later in the summer, or even the month of October leading into the season.

I mean- i am sure i can get the same bet from you on the cusp of the playoffs so why get forced into it now? If it turns out Lebron really has some hanging cartilage in his knee or Love has a bulging disk and in Mid-March they have to shut it down the bets is already all but settled

I think that is a very reasonable request in light of the fact you dont even think they can get past round 2- let alone another round. And part of the reason why i would even take the bet is knowing the poor injury history of both Rose and to a lesser extent Gasol....Thats a real advantage for the Cavs...

but it all means nothing if LeBron walks up on May 4th and is done- then there is no chance and it would be insane to take that bet this far out without that assurance

 

[WiggyRuss]

EVEN I do not think the Cavs can make the Finals without a healthy LeBron and Love, lol

 

[WiggyRuss]

quick anecdote that if you dont want to read- please dont....

My prof for 1st amendment is a postiviely great guy- the nicest youd ever meet- he has wonthe professor of the year award so many times the award is now named after him and he is ineligible...

we started class on Monday- and by Wednesday we were talking about obscenity.

He goes- to paraphrase "I will have to use profane language like the word FUCK in this class. Imagine that we are all scientist and you have your lab coat on when you come in and while in class you have permission to use obscenity how you see fit. If you were to say "Professor XXXX, you can go FUCK yourself!" - that is totally fine."

pretty funny stuff- especially coming from this guy who is the nicest, most compassionate, best guy you could ever imagine and its hard to even contemplate him using that language...

anyway....back to basketball

 

[trojanfan12]

this is always the predictable rallying call of a fan of a hopelessly crappy team- "WE USED TO BE GOOD!"

during the season nobody cares what you DID...especially when certain things are decades and decades in the past- i mean - before they were even born-decades ago....

you guys keep that up....

ill watch my team compete for a title this year....its not a hard decision to say which one is more entertaining.


all though maybe i should try that next time the Browns suck...."The Browns used to be football Royalty! arguably the best coach, player, and qb of all time- the Hall of Fame built an hour away since its the birthplace of football- a team named after the legendary coach"

yah....it just falls really flat...why does it fall flat? because no one cares

What you fail to understand is that history shows us that teams like the Lakers and Heat will be back and that it will likely be sooner rather than later. That's why you see very little, if any, panic among the fanbases. The same holds true for the Celtics. They have shown this not just once or twice in their histories, but over and over.

Sometimes, fans can fool themselves into thinking that the good times will last forever. I remember that's how it felt during the Showtime era, during Shaq/Kobe and to a lesser extent Kobe/Gasol. Unfortunately, those times don't last forever, players get old and retire, they get traded, they get injured, they move on via free agency, etc. However, teams develop an atmosphere of winning by doing what it takes to get back into contention. That's why for some teams the "down times" don't last as long.

Considering that the entirety of the Cavs "good times" are drafting Lebron and then having Dan Gilbert hand over the franchise to him 4 years later to get him to come back (after he led another franchise to 2 championships), you'd probably be better served just enjoying whatever is going to happen over the next few years instead of worrying about the history of other franchises and/or how many championships they claim.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I mean- i am sure i can get the same bet from you on the cusp of the playoffs so why get forced into it now? If it turns out Lebron really has some hanging cartilage in his knee or Love has a bulging disk and in Mid-March they have to shut it down the bets is already all but settled

I think that is a very reasonable request in light of the fact you dont even think they can get past round 2- let alone another round. And part of the reason why i would even take the bet is knowing the poor injury history of both Rose and to a lesser extent Gasol....Thats a real advantage for the Cavs...

but it all means nothing if LeBron walks up on May 4th and is done- then there is no chance and it would be insane to take that bet this far out without that assurance

1. You might not get the same bet before the playoffs.

2. You made your " my team will be playing for a championship" tonight. If you're not willing to bet, then you must not really believe what you stated.

3. It's a frickin' avi bet. In the past, I have never made anyone leave the avi up for more then a couple weeks if they were good sports about losing. In other words, it's all in fun and certainly not important.

4. I dont believe I said they couldn't get past round 2. Of course they can. They have LeBron. It just depends on which LeBron shows up and much the rest of the roster is up to the moment.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

What you fail to understand is that history shows us that teams like the Lakers and Heat will be back and that it will likely be sooner rather than later. That's why you see very little, if any, panic among the fanbases. The same holds true for the Celtics. They have shown this not just once or twice in their histories, but over and over.

Sometimes, fans can fool themselves into thinking that the good times will last forever. I remember that's how it felt during the Showtime era, during Shaq/Kobe and to a lesser extent Kobe/Gasol. Unfortunately, those times don't last forever, players get old and retire, they get traded, they get injured, they move on via free agency, etc. However, teams develop an atmosphere of winning by doing what it takes to get back into contention. That's why for some teams the "down times" don't last as long.

Considering that the entirety of the Cavs "good times" are drafting Lebron and then having Dan Gilbert hand over the franchise to him 4 years later to get him to come back (after he led another franchise to 2 championships), you'd probably be better served just enjoying whatever is going to happen over the next few years instead of worrying about the history of other franchises and/or how many championships they claim.

Can you please tell me when the Canes will be relevant again?

 

[trojanfan12]

Can you please tell me when the Canes will be relevant again?

 

[WiggyRuss]

What you fail to understand is that history shows us that teams like the Lakers and Heat will be back and that it will likely be sooner rather than later. That's why you see very little, if any, panic among the fanbases. The same holds true for the Celtics. They have shown this not just once or twice in their histories, but over and over.

Sometimes, fans can fool themselves into thinking that the good times will last forever. I remember that's how it felt during the Showtime era, during Shaq/Kobe and to a lesser extent Kobe/Gasol. Unfortunately, those times don't last forever, players get old and retire, they get traded, they get injured, they move on via free agency, etc. However, teams develop an atmosphere of winning by doing what it takes to get back into contention. That's why for some teams the "down times" don't last as long.

Considering that the entirety of the Cavs "good times" are drafting Lebron and then having Dan Gilbert hand over the franchise to him 4 years later to get him to come back (after he led another franchise to 2 championships), you'd probably be better served just enjoying whatever is going to happen over the next few years instead of worrying about the history of other franchises and/or how many championships they claim.

hey hey hey ....cmon now- Trojan- i know you are of the age to remember the days of "The Miracle of Richfield"- and the Cavs did have some really good teams that were estopped from possible title(s) by MJ (with Daughterty, Price, Nance, Ehlo, Hot Rod etc)

but why i am hesitant to agree with you guys on "what history has shown us" with teams that have done well in the past is the new CBA

its inarguable that the NBA is drastically changed. I mean-the league is almost unregonizable from 20-30 years ago when at one time- the finals were on tape delay- and the only national games on were Celtics/Lakers games on Sunday afternoon-

Now- it does not matter one iota where you play. When LeBron was in Cleveland the first time- both him and Dwight were the most marketable players in the league by a fair margin- and they were situatied in Orlando and Cleveland- markets that are not even in the top 15 (or 20 probably for that matter) in the United States

the new CBA has leveled the playing like never before. A lot of teams that have been historically good could just outspend other teams. Other teams like the Lakers find themselves in an uncertain spot having lost their owner who was a genius- and replacing him with a guy who- to be nice- has not exactly inspired a lot of confidence lately. Super stars would flock to major markets to get exposure and they just dont need to do that anymore. Kevin Durant and LeBron are in Oklahoma City and Cleveland for shits sake.

Every team now has Ivy League educated GM's using advanced statistical analysis. Their are billions of dollars on the line. The rules have been changed so its much easier for teams to resign their own players.

The environment in the NBA is just not even close to whatit used to be- even 10 years ago- let alone 20-30 years ago.

i mean look what we saw just a few years ago- a commissioner vetoeing atrade ofa star to the Lakers- and then that star going to the Clippers- a franchise that historically has been an absolute joke. Its been hotly debated whether Howard leaving was a good thing or a bad thing- but 20 years ago it would have been absolutely shocking to see a majorly sought after free agent walk away from the Lakers to go to Houston.

This is a totally changed set of rules the NBA is operating on- and its why I believe how your team used to be has never meant less.

If you dont agree with me- i totally respect that- and i would love to hear your arguments. I really enjoy posting on here and hearing other peoples points of view and opinions- even ifyou dont agree its something that makes you smarter and gives you another view point to approach the issue.

 

[WiggyRuss]

how humiliating is it that the "Miracle of Richfield" was just getting to the conference finals? LOL

 

[WiggyRuss]

I guess what I want to know is what in your guys opinions make the Heat, and make the Lakers who they are?

Why do you believe they have this pre-built in advantage in today's environment?

What makes them just naturally more inclined to wining over a team like Phoenix or Dallas or Indiana?

I am honestly extremely interested and sincerely hope this is not coming off in a defensive way. I think its interesting as hell to be truthful.

 

[DJ]

Compete for a title? The Cavs are 20-20 and don't show much in the way of signs that they are actually improving....

 

[trojanfan12]

I guess what I want to know is what in your guys opinions make the Heat, and make the Lakers who they are?

Why do you believe they have this pre-built in advantage in today's environment?

What makes them just naturally more inclined to wining over a team like Phoenix or Dallas or Indiana?

I am honestly extremely interested and sincerely hope this is not coming off in a defensive way. I think its interesting as hell to be truthful.

Because history matters. Because where you live matters. Because regardless of what the cba is or will be, what teams are willing to spend to be contenders, matters.

Players want to make a lot of money, they want to win championships and they want to live in nice places.

Teams like the Lakers, Heat, etc. have shown over and over that they will pay their players and they will pay what they have to to win titles. I don't want to disparage your Cavs, but what do you think is more impressive to a potential FA? The Lakers 16 World Championship banners or the Cavs Eastern Conference Championship banner. Plus, teams like the Lakers, Heat etc. have shown that they will continue to take care of their players after they retire. It's amazing to me how many former Lakers are still employed by the Lakers in some capacity. Some of whom were only on the team for about 2 or 3 seasons.

Teams like the Lakers, Heat, etc. have shown they know how to win multiple championships over time despite changing players, personnel, coaches, etc. Players like knowing that even if the hit down times, the team will keep working until they are back on top.

I'm sure Cleveland and many other cities have their charm and nice areas. But do they really compare to places like Los Angeles and Miami?

 

[WiggyRuss]

my explanation- thatwould admittedly not be nearly as informed as your guys since you undoubtedly know the area and teams way better than i do- a historical analysis would go something like this:

For the Heat- All things being equal- playing in Miami when you are in your twenties is pretty darn compelling. Heck- if I was 23 with millions of dollars- and the money was equal and the team equal- it would be hard to say no to going to Miami. There is also no sales tax in florida so that saves me about 5% on my salary which is definitely not peanuts. Also- pat riley has been there a long time- and has proven he can put together a winner.


For the Lakers- for years in the NBA- in order to become a star on the national level you had to get to a big market. None were bigger (and to a certain extent- still) than the La Lakers. The leadership of the organization was unparalleled with Dr. Buss at the helm. A number of great coaches from Riley to Jackson walked the sidelines. The allure of Hollywood is tempting to players wanting to expand there brand. The Lakers had a reputation for always paying top dollar. LA is a heckuva place to live as well.

Now to modern day- the allure of Hollywood is still there- but that's mitigated by the fact that - for example- Lebron in Cleveland is coming out with a movie where he plays a starring role soon with Kevin Hart in Ballers....Dr. Buss is obviously gone replaced with his son who has to put it mildly displayed some growing pains. Its hard to outspend teams now with the restrictions of the new CBA where there is not only a very punitive tax- but the type of moves you make are restricted with a payroll over the tax (lower exception levels, limited sign-and trade abilities)and hometeams are much more likely to keep their free agents because they can offer them more money.. LA is still a GREAT place to live as an NBA player that is for sure-. Mike Brown and Byron Scott and Mike Dantoni will never be confused with Pat Riley and Phil Jackson. There IS something to be said- a certain i guess mystical quality for playing for a storied franchise like the Lakers or Celtics that some guys still probably buy into- however on the other hand todays NBA player does not seem as respectful of history and willing to turn down cash to do so....as i said in the previous post- you can be a huge star in the a tiny market in the NBA nowadays- you dont need to go to La or NY to get huge endorsement deals.

As for the Heat- Riley is about to turn 70- how much longer is he there?- you guys still have tax benefits- and Miami is still a great place to play a winter sport at...

I agree that there are still advantages- but those advantages are no where near as pronounced as they were 20 years ago.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I guess what I want to know is what in your guys opinions make the Heat, and make the Lakers who they are?

Why do you believe they have this pre-built in advantage in today's environment?

What makes them just naturally more inclined to wining over a team like Phoenix or Dallas or Indiana?

I am honestly extremely interested and sincerely hope this is not coming off in a defensive way. I think its interesting as hell to be truthful.

On behalf of the Heat, I can say that almost all NBA players love what South Beach offers.
They love the weather here during basketball season.
They love the no state tax.
They know that they can trust and depend on Riley/Arison to keep the cupboard full for the most part.


I know the obvious about LA, but not much more. I'll defer to Lakers fans.

I do agree the next CBA will be very interesting and also agree that many other cities offer different intangibles.

I lived the first 26 years of my life in the Cleveland area. it's pretty bad.
Other than James being there now and or being overpaid to be there as a player, WHY would any player want or choose to be there if they have multiple equal choices?