AFCN offseason

[DanBengalfan]

Joe Flacco, All he does is win, all all all all he does is win games.
Joe Flacco, he shattered the mold, all he does is win....

 

[cravnravn]

Isnt that what fans of any team wants?
he's the fastest QB to 40 wins
He's the only QB in the history of the NFL to go to the playoffs his first 4 years in the league.

2 out of his first 4 years in the AFCCG, yeah Im happy..

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yeah, but you can't say those wins are BECAUSE of him.

I'm not saying he's a terrible QB. But when you have Ray Rice and the defense they've had, Flacco really has been asked more to not screw things up rather than go out there and throw it around like Brees, Rivers, Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, etc...etc..

My only point was, they could have argued he deserves a higher pay now because in a few more years his "top" 10 QB contract that he's really worth will be outdated when guys start getting bigger money down the road. That makes more sense. But to try and peg him as a top 5 QB off a "team" stat, to me, doesn't hold much water. That's just my opinion.

He's done a great job with what he's been given, but you can't seriously look at anyone and say that he's an all around "top" 5 QB.

That's like saying a pitcher in baseball that has a 5.00 ERA is better than a pitcher with a 2.00 ERA because the first pitcher plays on a better offense and has 5 more wins than the pitcher who's ERA is better, but because the offense sucks, loses more games. You simply can't correlate wins to a top spot at your position. It's a nice stat, but W's and L's can (notice I said CAN) be vastly over-rated at times. I believe that this is one of those times.

 

[cincygrad]

Flacco's receivers have let him down in the biggest moments. Boldin dropped a critical pass in the AFC-C game at Pitt..... Housh dropped a sure first down on the final drive in that same game. Lee Evans dropped a touchdown that would have put Flacco in the Super Bowl. Those guys are costing the kid some money.

 

[cravnravn]

He's won his share, and their are games when the D won the games for him, Manning in 2006 had the worst O output during the playoffs, yet they still won the SB, and nobody is questioning Manning on his eliteness..

And besides, we NEED to get him signed this year, what if the Ravens win the SB this season, could you imagine what his agent would want then? I could see it now, agent walks in Bisquitys office grabs one of his cubans' and says 5 years in the league, 3 afccg, a ring and 5 straight trips to the playoffs...I couldnt imagine the money that would result.

 

[Cincyfan78]

You're missing my entire point:

I'm not saying he shouldn't be paid. Heck, I'm not even saying that he shouldn't be paid top 5QB type money.

My issue was, and is, all about how his agent went about it. I think the approach was idiotic and wrong. If you are going to go around and start comparing your QB to the top 5 QB's in the NFL, he better have similar stats to back it up, and not just wins, which is a very arbitrary number. That's all I'm saying. Had his agent came out and said, we want him to be in the top 5 QB's paid because in X amount of years, Brees, Rivers, Rodgers all are going to make more money, and if Joe takes top 10 QB money now, in another 2 years he's going to be making less than 18 QB's in the NFL, and half of them he's better than...I understand that. The contract has to look-out for the future of how the player is going to be paid as well as the present.

Again, it was just the arbitrary comparrision.

on Manning and his defense...9 times out of 10, manning carried that defense. The fact that for a small stretch the defense helped carry the O doesn't change anything. When you can say that Flacco carries this defense more than 7 or 8 times out of 10, then the same can be said about him. However, we all know that's not the case.

 

[cravnravn]

Isnt the ony stat that matters is W's & L's? the other stats are for fantasy players

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Isnt the ony stat that matters is W's & L's? the other stats are for fantasy players

You'd be willing to give Trent Dilfer that kind of wad? Because that is what I would compare Flacco to.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Isnt the ony stat that matters is W's & L's? the other stats are for fantasy players

As crash said, and pointed out, Dilfer won. Tebow wins. I'm not sure you would pay either of those guys in their prime(s) top 5 QB money.

W's and L's are important, and you want a guy who's going to help you win more than you lose. But to say that you deserve top 5 QB SOLEY based on a stat that is more impacted by other factors on your team (see Ray Rice, Defense) than you is incorrect.

 

[DanBengalfan]

With the salary cap, when you start paying a QB elite money, you have to take in consideration you will not be able to pay your other players as much. If you do that, then, can you still win?

 

[cravnravn]

You'd be willing to give Trent Dilfer that kind of wad? Because that is what I would compare Flacco to.

NO, he did it one time, Joes done it 4 consecutive years..Only one QB in the league has more wins over the 4 years hes been in the league...Drew Brees

 

[Cincyfan78]

Keep hanging on to that arbitrary number.

Nothing else says that he's a top 5 QB. It's ok. This isn't a knock on him, he's just not top 5.

Give him a defense that isn't top 5 every year, or a RB that isn't Ray Rice, and Joe doesn't win nearly as many games. This is why W's and L's are arbitrary when trying to make a case about where a player ranks. This isn't tennis. There's too much influence from other parts of the team that factor into "Joe's" winning percentage or number of wins as a QB.

What Makes Aaron Rodgers, Brees, Brady top 5 QB's aren't just the wins, sure it is a part, just like it should be for Joe, but it's the rest of the package. The yards, the TD's, the stats. When you start comparing those things along with wins, Joe isn't top 5.

 

[DanBengalfan]

go ahead and pay joe flacco eli manning's salary. See how the rest of the team can survive when you cut another big name player to pay joe flacco the same as peyton manning or aaron rodgers. This isn't even a discussion anyone should be having. That would be like, if Andy Dalton has a string of decent seasons and we give him enough support to win games he should be in the same salary tier as freaking Drew Brees... it ain't happening, as much as I like Big Red, he isn't getting all the credit for chucking it up to AJ Green while the OL holds everyone back and the defense keeps him in games.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

NO, he did it one time, Joes done it 4 consecutive years..Only one QB in the league has more wins over the 4 years hes been in the league...Drew Brees

How many SB Joe been to? How many he win?

Oh nevermind, he is the next Jim Kelly with much worse stats!! Good, except when something that really matters is on the line.

 

[Servo]

As a Bengals fan I'm a big supporter of both Colt McCoy and Flacco. I think the Ravens should throw the house at Flacco and Browns should extend McCoy.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

As a Bengals fan I'm a big supporter of both Colt McCoy and Flacco. I think the Ravens should throw the house at Flacco and Browns should extend McCoy.

I agree. Nothing better than having average QB's lining up against you twice a year from two of the 3 teams in your division.

 

[bengaldoug]

I hope Flacco and Rice both get paid.....it will weaken their team overall, and maybe we can sign some of their other top players.....