A Look Back at the 1990 football season

[WVUDAD]

So DAD,

You go on… and on… and on… about the terrible/horrible coaching of Dana. You have seen Dana coach his boys up. You just admitted you saw an improved offense his first year. That offense also improved his second year.

But, I agree with you… results matter.

Now, I have shown you that even a hall of fame coach could not get results when he was forced to play inexperienced kids… to include his QB. Unlike Dana, his 1990 team couldn't even win a game against a team with a winning record.

However, you are convinced Dana cannot coach … despite what you've seen him accomplish… winning a BCS bowl. You are certain he cannot coach because of the drop off the last two years… in results… with young… inexperienced players. Yet we have all witnessed the same drop off with our hall of fame coach.

Can you explain why? Cause you look like a hypocrite.

No my friend, YOU are the hypocrite. When I talk of past glory at WVU, you say the past doesn't matter, yet now, you have cherry picked one year to use as an example. Like you said, Nehlen is a hall of famer, therefore he deserved some patience. Until the Texas game in 2012, I thought Holgorsen was an OK coach, not great, not horrible. Watching the wheels fall off the rest of that season, and the disaster that this past season was convinced me he is NOT a good coach, and may never be. The more of his recruits he brings in, the worse the team looks.

 

[bbwvfan]

When have I ever said the past didn't matter? Are you simply throwing out some BS because your hypocrisy is now out there for all of the internet world to judge?

Would you explain to me the difference between 2013 and 1990? You have failed to respond to request.

 

[bbwvfan]

You do realize Dana's recruits just finished their sophomore or RS Fr season… right? With the exception of the JUCO's… he has two years to recruit.

 

[WVUDAD]

When have I ever said the past didn't matter? Are you simply throwing out some BS because your hypocrisy is now out there for all of the internet world to judge?

Would you explain to me the difference between 2013 and 1990? You have failed to respond to request.

1990 was the 11th season of a HOF coach, one who took a losing program and had it going to Norman and beating OU in his third year, had WVU playing for the "title" in year 9. Nehlen had a limited recruiting budget, lesser facilities, less pay for assts, Holgorsen has Luck giving him about whatever he wants, has a deep purse to pay his assts, can recruit nationwide. Everyone knows that Nehlen had some very poor years, his recruiting technique made for a really weak tem, two years of decent team, and one year of greatness.

 

[bbwvfan]

1990 was the 11th season of a HOF coach, one who took a losing program and had it going to Norman and beating OU in his third year, had WVU playing for the "title" in year 9. Nehlen had a limited recruiting budget, lesser facilities, less pay for assts, Holgorsen has Luck giving him about whatever he wants, has a deep purse to pay his assts, can recruit nationwide. Everyone knows that Nehlen had some very poor years, his recruiting technique made for a really weak tem, two years of decent team, and one year of greatness.

Nehlen took Cignetti's recruits to Norman.

I agree with your assessment of the challenges Nehlen faced. You do realize, you have made another case comparing the challenges Dana has today… to those Nehlen faced in the past. Everyone around WVU… to include their conference competition…. has better facilities… better pay for their assistants. Dana is simply trying to even the playing field. As did Don when he was the HC.

But, my original question had to do with personnel placed on the field… and results. You are result driven… so, please give me your analysis.

 

[WVUDAD]

Nehlen took Cignetti's recruits to Norman.

I agree with your assessment of the challenges Nehlen faced. You do realize, you have made another case comparing the challenges Dana has today… to those Nehlen faced in the past. Everyone around WVU… to include their conference competition…. has better facilities… better pay for their assistants. Dana is simply trying to even the playing field. As did Don when he was the HC.

But, my original question had to do with personnel placed on the field… and results. You are result driven… so, please give me your analysis.

Can you not read? Nehlen was a hot and cold recruiter, he coached guys up to have a good season, a bad season, and two OK seasons every four years. Nehlens first three years 6-6, 9-3, 9-3, previous three years under Cignetti 5-6, 2-9, 5-6, so Nehlen took the players from those three seasons and turned them into winners. Holgorsen's first three years 10-3, 7-6, 4-8, previous three years 9-4, 9-4, 9-4, so Holgorsen turned those winners into losers.

 

[bbwvfan]

Can you not read? Nehlen was a hot and cold recruiter, he coached guys up to have a good season, a bad season, and two OK seasons every four years. Nehlens first three years 6-6, 9-3, 9-3, previous three years under Cignetti 5-6, 2-9, 5-6, so Nehlen took the players from those three seasons and turned them into winners. Holgorsen's first three years 10-3, 7-6, 4-8, previous three years 9-4, 9-4, 9-4, so Holgorsen turned those winners into losers.

I haven't read an explanation from you on why the 1990 WVU football team struggled to a 4 win season. Is your answer recruiting? Was Don forced to put inexperienced kids on the field in 1990 because of his recruiting problems as you say? What happened in 1990 when Don was forced to put inexperienced players on the field… was it similar to what happened to Dana?

Hopefully you aren't trying to compare year 3 for Dana as he had 13 seniors, to year 3 for Don Nehlen who had 19. Of the 13 seniors for Dana, Jenkins left the team when he was demoted, Ezemma was lost to injury at the start of the season, and Rigg was lost for most of the season to injury. A late addition to the senior group last year was the transfer of Sims. Not a holdover from Stewart.

Quite a difference between the personnel available for Don compared to Dana… wouldn't you say?

 

[WVUDAD]

I haven't read an explanation from you on why the 1990 WVU football team struggled to a 4 win season. Is your answer recruiting? Was Don forced to put inexperienced kids on the field in 1990 because of his recruiting problems as you say? What happened in 1990 when Don was forced to put inexperienced players on the field… was it similar to what happened to Dana?

Hopefully you aren't trying to compare year 3 for Dana as he had 13 seniors, to year 3 for Don Nehlen who had 19. Of the 13 seniors for Dana, Jenkins left the team when he was demoted, Ezemma was lost to injury at the start of the season, and Rigg was lost for most of the season to injury. A late addition to the senior group last year was the transfer of Sims. Not a holdover from Stewart.

Quite a difference between the personnel available for Don compared to Dana… wouldn't you say?

When Nehlen arrived, he reached out to the existing players to ensure they wanted to stay on the team, and just as Holgorsen did with Trickett, Nehlen brought in a transfer QB because who was on the roster after Luck graduated did not fit his offense. Holgorsen made holdover players feel like third wheels, and several left the program. What Nehlen did in year three was teach the kids how to play ball, prepared them to win. BB, year three is year three, as I stated above, Nehlen took over a basket case and won, Holgorsen took over a winning program and is losing. Before you start with how the B12 is the NFL crap, 1982 was among the strongest schedules WVU ever played.

 

[mad2mc]

When Nehlen arrived, he reached out to the existing players to ensure they wanted to stay on the team, and just as Holgorsen did with Trickett, Nehlen brought in a transfer QB because who was on the roster after Luck graduated did not fit his offense. Holgorsen made holdover players feel like third wheels, and several left the program. What Nehlen did in year three was teach the kids how to play ball, prepared them to win. BB, year three is year three, as I stated above, Nehlen took over a basket case and won, Holgorsen took over a winning program and is losing. Before you start with how the B12 is the NFL crap, 1982 was among the strongest schedules WVU ever played.

You are so blind. I know BB loves this, but you are clueless.

 

[bbwvfan]

When Nehlen arrived, he reached out to the existing players to ensure they wanted to stay on the team, and just as Holgorsen did with Trickett, Nehlen brought in a transfer QB because who was on the roster after Luck graduated did not fit his offense. Holgorsen made holdover players feel like third wheels, and several left the program. What Nehlen did in year three was teach the kids how to play ball, prepared them to win. BB, year three is year three, as I stated above, Nehlen took over a basket case and won, Holgorsen took over a winning program and is losing. Before you start with how the B12 is the NFL crap, 1982 was among the strongest schedules WVU ever played.

DAD, are you a Christian? Do you believe in God? Do you follow the 10 Commandments?

Why are you making shit up? Why lie? What would Jesus do? Exactly how many players left the WVU football program because Dana did not make the WVU players recruited by Bill Stewart feel like big wheels?

 

[DCWV4life]

I guess no one wants to mention two players who left the program came back..McCartney and Buie...yeah that Dana must be a real a-hole.

 

[bbwvfan]

Haven't we hashed out the results of Bill Stewart's recruiting classes on here and at CBS about a half dozen times? At least...


Bill did not fill his classes... and, he had trouble with both getting kids qualified as well as a retention of his recruits under his watch.


That is not saying Bill Stewart could not recruit. It is not saying Bill Stewart could not recruit talent. He had a philosophy, he wanted to bring in 17 scholarship players per class. The NCAA probation affected a couple of lost schollies as well.

 

[WVUDAD]

DAD, are you a Christian? Do you believe in God? Do you follow the 10 Commandments?

Why are you making shit up? Why lie? What would Jesus do? Exactly how many players left the WVU football program because Dana did not make the WVU players recruited by Bill Stewart feel like big wheels?

West Virginia notebook: Two wide receivers leave team; both likely to transfer - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

West Virginia notebook: Two wide receivers leave team; both likely to transfer - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/dec/09/barry-brunetti-leaving-west-virginia/

Just because it is not what YOU want to hear, does not mean it is made up.............There are players who leave with EVERY coaching change. Trying to belittle Nehlen in a lame attempt to defend Holgorsen ir ridiculous.

 

[DCWV4life]

So did we let some big time talent go?

Holgerson was doing those guys a favor by letting them go....not some attempt to rid the program of stews guys.

McCartney and Buie came back....does not seem they had any issue with DH.

 

[bbwvfan]

West Virginia notebook: Two wide receivers leave team; both likely to transfer - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

West Virginia notebook: Two wide receivers leave team; both likely to transfer - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/dec/09/barry-brunetti-leaving-west-virginia/

Just because it is not what YOU want to hear, does not mean it is made up.............There are players who leave with EVERY coaching change. Trying to belittle Nehlen in a lame attempt to defend Holgorsen ir ridiculous.

When did I belittle Nehlen? I have no idea where you get this stuff...
My point about Nehlen... one I asked you to expand upon... was this... Coach Nehlen did a great job developing talent. But, like you've mentioned... sometimes there were gaps in recruiting.

The BS you throw out repeatedly about Dana are the following: he cannot coach, he cannot recruit, the kids quit, he quits, yadda... yadda... yadda...

Most everyone who follows the WVU football team recognizes the following... WVU moved to a deeper, more challenging conference. They have made this transition without a full roster of players. They have made the transition with young, inexperienced players forced into PT before they were ready.

Dana was not responsible for the lack of upperclassmen... nor the fact there was not a full roster of players when his team entered the Big 12. I am not blaming anyone here... it is what it is.

But, Dana has busted his ass trying to get kids ready to compete. Sometimes the inexperience and youth is something a coach cannot overcome. Don Nehlen experienced the same issues... and had the same results... several times over his career. When the kids matured, they performed better. 1990 is a perfect example and it mirrors 2013 very closely.

Let's wait and see what happens over the next two years when Dana's recruits are SRs, RS JRs and JRs before we declare him unfit.

You could not give me a response to my request because you knew it would back you into a corner. It is OK... I already had you and your hypocrisy exposed.

 

[bbwvfan]

Arlia was not going to start last season for WVU. He asked and was given a release to get more PT elsewhere. You think that is an example of Dana treating a Bill Stewart recruit as a 3rd wheel? Too funny...


Will Johnson was never going to play. How is giving him a release an example of poor treatment of a Bill Stewart recruit?


Brunetti left the WVU program under Bill Stewart. Just as his other QB recruited the same year... Johnson... had left earlier in fall camp. That had nothing to do with Dana.


You think those are examples that fit your opinion? It is OK to be wrong DAD...

 

[Mike]

West Virginia notebook: Two wide receivers leave team; both likely to transfer - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

West Virginia notebook: Two wide receivers leave team; both likely to transfer - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/dec/09/barry-brunetti-leaving-west-virginia/

Just because it is not what YOU want to hear, does not mean it is made up.............There are players who leave with EVERY coaching change. Trying to belittle Nehlen in a lame attempt to defend Holgorsen ir ridiculous.

You just showed two WR's that were not going to get playing time, and a QB that thought he was better then he was, and didn't want to ride the bench behind Geno...... What did Brunetti do after he transferred?? If my memory is correct he warmed the bench in Mississippi......

 

[WVUDAD]

You just showed two WR's that were not going to get playing time, and a QB that thought he was better then he was, and didn't want to ride the bench behind Geno...... What did Brunetti do after he transferred?? If my memory is correct he warmed the bench in Mississippi......

The guy on here trying to forgive Holgorsen for this past season by pointing out a bad season during Nehlen's tenure was counting SENIORS on the team, NOT CONTRIBUTING seniors. Using HIS metric, ALL players count, not just those who contribute. The fact remains, that Nehlen took over a HORRIBLE team and turned it into a winner, and Holgorsen took over a winning team and is taking it downhill.

 

[bbwvfan]

The guy on here trying to forgive Holgorsen for this past season by pointing out a bad season during Nehlen's tenure was counting SENIORS on the team, NOT CONTRIBUTING seniors. Using HIS metric, ALL players count, not just those who contribute. The fact remains, that Nehlen took over a HORRIBLE team and turned it into a winner, and Holgorsen took over a winning team and is taking it downhill.

DAD is having a bad day.

You brought up the 1982 Nehlen team for some reason. I said he beat OU with Cignetti players. You like to use this excuse for what Dana did his first two years at WVU. I counted how many SRs were on the 1982 team to indicate a difference between what Nehlen inherited and what Dana inherited.

Dana had inexperienced kids and did just as well as Nehlen did with inexperienced kids. Seems to be a valid reason for why the past season was so bad. Same reason Nehlen had.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

Mac,

I totally agree with you. Recruiting was the problem, and like both you and DAD have cited, it affected his teams frequently.

In 1990, WVU did not beat a team that won over 3 games their entire season. It ended the season with blowout losses to SU and USCe. It lost to a BC club that only had 4 wins in their season.

And, this was just two years removed from playing in the NC against ND.

But, DAD comes on here putting out all of this crap about Dana, and how his team is getting worse each season, getting worse on offense each season. Does he forget our past?

We have been witness to this multiple times with Coach Nehlen. Get your guys, coach them up, and watch what they do when they have become upperclassmen. Sometimes... magic occurs.

Why does anyone want to throw a coach to the curb when he has had to deal with rebuilding a team? WVU was one of the youngest teams in FBS last season. If a hall of fame coach has trouble doing it, why would you use a different measuring stick with a young coach and staff?

Ah, but you both have points. Dana's teams ARE getting worse each year. That's simple fact of observation. However, this year was expected. It was a young, inexperienced team with big questions about talent and depth. 4-8 or 5-7 was what most of us expected.

It's not fair to compare Donnie with Dana though. Nehlen had to build WVU. Dana has resources in place. I think part of Dana's issues has been learning how to be THE guy. I know you don't subscribe to the idea that experience matters, but Dana is learning how to be the head man on the job. Nehlen already had an idea of what he was doing.

Dana needs this year, at least, to see what he's capable of. A lot of our late season fall-off is clearly injury/depth related. Anyone coaching that team would have had those issues.