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A College Football Playoff Doesn't Fix Everything (feedback appreciated)

CED59

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My friend Joe wrote this and we'd like your feedback, positive, negative.. it's all good. We have the same opinion on this topic however.

..written before yesterday- but it still covers the potential negatives with the new playoff system and assumed it would be implemented

Joe ESQ: A College Football Playoff Isn’t So Simple

Now that the conference commissioners have decided that they favor a four 4-team college football playoff over the current BCS format or a plus-one, the debate has centered on whether that four-team playoff should consist exclusively of conference champions or the “best four teams”. While there have been compelling arguments made in favor of each side, it bothers me that these debates (first about the playoffs v. plus-one, now about this) continue to ignore the biggest problem with college football in recent years—the manner in which teams are subjectively ranked.

Every possible postseason format involves the subjective ranking of teams. 120+ FBS teams play against schedules of varying difficulty. There is no simple formula that can be used to determine which teams are more deserving or better than other teams. The BCS, which everyone now hates, chose teams because of where they were ranked. Sometimes it worked, like when two teams were clearly better/more deserving than everyone else (2002, 2005, 2009, 2010). Sometimes it didn’t and had people yelling for college football playoff. Thinking the same thing won’t happen in the future simply because there are four teams instead of two is delusional. The four-team playoff will be just as subjective as the BCS regardless of whether it’s the “best four teams” or conference champions (there are more than four conferences, so some conference champions will have to be subjectively chosen over other conference champions). In fact, it might be even more subjective, as there are more often two teams that are clearly better/more deserving than everyone else than there are four such teams.In order to avoid the problems of recent years and the injustice they caused, the way teams are ranked has to be corrected.

playoffs.jpg


How can that be done?

Two ways-

(1) by having unbiased, knowledgeable people vote, and (2) by making it clear to the voters and everyone else what they’re actually voting for, because most of them have been getting it wrong forever.

COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYOFF DETERMINED BY UNBIASED, KNOWLEDGEABLE VOTERS

Coaches should not have a say in the rankings. Not only are they biased (they benefit from having their conference’s teams highly ranked), but they lack the requisite knowledge. Nick Saban might know a lot about football, but he doesn’t know a damn thing about how well Stanford or Wisconsin play it. Coaches don’t sit around on Saturday watching a bunch of games. They don’t watch film of teams they’ll never play. They don’t study the resumes or stats of teams in different conferences. They know their team and their opponents, and that’s not enough to be preparing rankings.

Unfortunately, the same could be said for beat writers who vote in the AP Poll or voters of the Harris Poll. Who is capable of preparing the rankings then? I don’t know. The NCAA Basketball Tournament has managed to do a good job of it though. Whatever they’ve been doing, college football needs to do the same.

COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYOFF VOTING BASED ON THE WRONG CRITERIA


This is the part that I find more bothersome because it’s been going on year after year and few in the mainstream media have pointed it out (there have been a few, including John Brandon at Grantland, but I don’t recall who they are). The voters are not supposed to rank the best teams, they’re supposed to rank the best resumes. There is a major difference there. The latter is less subjective and more fair. Human beings are incapable of knowing whether one football team is better than another football team. We’re clueless. That’s why there’s so much money in Vegas. The greatest predictors on Earth are right what, 60 percent of the time? By having voters rank teams based on the subjective opinions about which team is better or which would win some hypothetical game, you’re guaranteeing that the poll is inaccurate.

That is not be the case with ranking resumes. It’s based on what a team has done, not what people think it’s capable of doing or would do in some hypothetical situation. According to the AP guidelines, that’s what voters are supposed to be voting on. The rankings are supposed to change drastically from week to week. A team should not remain secure its spot simple by not losing. If one undefeated team beats a series of great teams while another beats a bunch of cupcakes, the former should be ranked ahead of the latter regardless of how good we think those teams are or where they were ranked prior to the season. Results are what matter. Results are what should matter, not public relations and subjective opinions.

THE COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYOFF FORMAT

If the rankings were corrected, this best four/conference champions debate wouldn’t even be necessary. There would be very few legitimate gripes if the teams with the four best resumes played for a title.

It is worth noting though that the same type of misconceptions that have been plaguing voters and many in the media for years with regard to rankings is currently taking place with regard to the playoff. We keep hearing how it should be “the four best teams” or “the four best conference champions”. That’s wrong. Even if, for argument sake, we pretend that it shouldn’t be the four most deserving teams, it’s still wrong. If the goal of the playoffs is to crown the best team, the way to do that is not by including the “four best teams”, but rather by including the “four teams with the greatest likelihood of being the best team.”

Although at first glance those might appear to be the same thing, there’s actually a huge difference between them.

Here are two examples:

2004. Texas and Cal were more likely to be among the best 4 teams in the country than Utah. They were ranked 4th and 5th in the BCS while Utah was ranked 6th. They played tougher schedules than Utah, and both lost only one game to a team ranked in the top two.* Of those three teams though, Utah was the team with the highest probability of being the best in all of football. We knew for a fact that neither Texas nor Cal was the best team out there because they each lost to an undefeated team that would also be playing in the playoff. They had their chance and failed. The same could not be said for Utah. While the Utes might not have been one of the best four teams in the country, there was a chance that they were the best, and therefore they should have been in the four-team playoff if it existed at that time.

2009. UF was more likely among the best 4 teams in the country than TCU, Cincinnati or Boise (and we now know they were better than Cincinnati). They played a tougher schedule, and lost only to undefeated Alabama. TCU, Cincinnati and Boise, however, all had a greater likelihood of being the best team in the country. We knew for a fact that UF wasn’t the best team in the country that year. They got blown out by Alabama on a neutral field. The same couldn’t be said for TCU, Cincinnati or Boise. Although they all probably would have lost to Alabama too, we can’t be sure of that because they all went undefeated (and we heard the same thing the year before about undefeated Utah, which beat the shit out of 12-1 Alabama).*

*This is not to say that a team that lost one game against an opponent couldn’t win the second game. We saw that happen this year. Even if that team were to win though, it wouldn’t prove that they were the best team in the country; only that they’re on equal footing with that other team. ’11 Alabama was certainly not unquestionably the best team in the country last year.

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CED59

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I think Bama was in '11.. Joe doesn't.
but they weren't 'unquestionably' the best team. people argued they should play LSU again (or OKie State should have been in the game).. well you guys know all this
 

Smart

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Maybe I am in the heavy minority here, but I think the BCS has sent the two most deserving teams to the championship every year since 2001 (when Oregon deserved the spot over Nebraska). My personal feelings are that if a team is not in the top four in the current system, they aren't deserving to play for the title.

I also disagree with your section on sending the teams likely to be the best teams. It is possible for a team like 2009 Florida to lose to a team like 2009 Alabama despite being the best team. To act like the more talented team wins 100% is obviously wrong. We've seen that proven hundreds of time, most recently in the Alabama-LSU saga. You have to pick teams based on overall resume. If one-loss Florida has consistently proven to be better than an undefeated Cincy or TCU, they deserve the shot. If not, you are just rewarding weak scheduling and taking away the fun of hundreds of regular season games.
 

Smart

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Oklahoma State couldn't have carried Bama's jockstrap. They got outplayed by a Stanford team that lost to USC* and got blasted by Oregon. If Stanford's kicker doesn't choke, they lose to a team that was (at best) the seventh or eighth best team in the country. If you are still insisting OK State is better than Bama, you are just trying to fuel controversy.

*This is not a typo. If you remember this game, you know what I am talking about.
 

CED59

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I don't disagree with what you say there, I feel the preseason rankings after a bigger problem than the BCS/playoff format. The #1 team could potentially lose to a D-1aa (sub-division) week 1 and play for the nat'l title... hasnt happened but these preseason rankings affect the entire season way more than the average fan sees
 

whyoh

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please don't label bYu as a MWC team
 

CED59

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Oklahoma State couldn't have carried Bama's jockstrap. They got outplayed by a Stanford team that lost to USC* and got blasted by Oregon. If Stanford's kicker doesn't choke, they lose to a team that was (at best) the seventh or eighth best team in the country. If you are still insisting OK State is better than Bama, you are just trying to fuel controversy.

*This is not a typo. If you remember this game, you know what I am talking about.

I agree with that on paper, but at the same time there's upsets all the time.. even to Bama- Utah dismantled them a few years ago in a huge game
 

huskers1217

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Oklahoma State couldn't have carried Bama's jockstrap. They got outplayed by a Stanford team that lost to USC* and got blasted by Oregon. If Stanford's kicker doesn't choke, they lose to a team that was (at best) the seventh or eighth best team in the country. If you are still insisting OK State is better than Bama, you are just trying to fuel controversy.

*This is not a typo. If you remember this game, you know what I am talking about.

You can't asterisk a fucking game. Usc lost..scoreboard

Alabama nor lsu had an offense that could keep up with okla st
 

Smart

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Alabama nor lsu had an offense that could keep up with okla st

LSU beat Oregon, who had the best offense in America. I'm sure Oklahoma State would have scored some, but no way they score more than 28.

In their bowl game, Oklahoma State gave up 38 points to a Stanford offense that hadn't scored that many points in regulation in any of their last five games. If Pac Ten defenses are siginificantly better than Okie State's (and I think the evidence points to that), Alabama or LSU would have gotten 38 points or more. I seriously think the evidence suggests Bama would have beaten Okie State by a score of around 41-14.
 

CED59

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response from Joe (writer)

As I said before, HUMAN BEINGS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF ACCURATELY PREDICTING FOOTBALL GAMES. You don’t know who would have won between OK St. and Alabama. I don’t know who would have won between Ok. St. and Alabama. Nobody will ever know who would have won between Ok. St. and Alabama.

(The question is really whether Ok. St.’s offense was good enough to score against Alabama’s defense, and none of us know the answer to that. Football’s about matchups. A beats B. B beats C. Does that mean A will beat C? No.)

What we are capable of judging is whose resume is better. I personally think Ok. St.’s was better than Alabama’s, even after the bowls. I even think LSU’s resume is better than Alabama’s even after the bowls. It’s all debatable, but could have been resolved if the voters made the right decision. If Ok. St. played LSU, we would have at least one team with a resume superior to everybody else’s.
 

mysfit

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Of course it doesn't fix everything.

The point of it is that it is another step FORWARD towards a better system.

Folks, you can NEVER solve every problem in a single step. It is an iterative process which hopefully has a trend forward but there are going to be steps forward and back.

The BCS was a better system than what came before it.
The 4 team playoff will be a better system than the BCS.

That is called progress. People have unreasonable expectations about how simple or easy it is to solve complex issues.
 

CED59

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Of course it doesn't fix everything.

The point of it is that it is another step FORWARD towards a better system.

Folks, you can NEVER solve every problem in a single step. It is an iterative process which hopefully has a trend forward but there are going to be steps forward and back.

The BCS was a better system than what came before it.
The 4 team playoff will be a better system than the BCS.

That is called progress. People have unreasonable expectations about how simple or easy it is to solve complex issues.

this is written before the playoff system was in place
 

Smart

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What we are capable of judging is whose resume is better. I personally think Ok. St.’s was better than Alabama’s, even after the bowls. I even think LSU’s resume is better than Alabama’s even after the bowls. It’s all debatable, but could have been resolved if the voters made the right decision. If Ok. St. played LSU, we would have at least one team with a resume superior to everybody else’s.

How does he figure?

Who lost to the better team? Obviously Alabama

Who had the best win of the two? Obviously Alabama

Who had the best #2 win of the two? Alabama....Arkansas beat K-State

Who was seriously at risk of losing more games? Oklahoma State...They had three wins by a TD or less. Alabama had none.

Who had a greater margin of victory? Alabama, 27.2- 23.8

Who outscored their opponents by a greater ratio? Alabama, more than 4:1 to less than 2:1.

In other words, the only thing OK State has going for it is the ability to beat more 7-5 and 8-4 teams. We should crown champions based on who plays the best and who beat and lost to the best teams, not who manages to pack their schedule with good teams that don't pose any threat to a title contender. If you truly think OK State was better, you either don't understand that concept or you are willing to overlook mountains of evidence suggesting Alabama was better.
 

ForkEmBucky

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I think everyone is missing the problem with this article. It started out solid, but then it offered a fix? No. The answer is....4 teams isn't nearly enough.

How many times has the NFL proven that the best team in the regular season can be exposed down the stretch as other teams improve? You need at least 8 teams. You have to fight your way through unfavorable matchups, the temptation to slack off and lose focus, and the OTHER team that got hot when it mattered. If you don't have to do that...you're not the champion. ESPECIALLY in college football where you're playing such a small sample of the overall product.

In addition. I don't care how many games you watch in a week. The transitive property DOES NOT APPLY. At least if you gather in 8 teams, you can say..."Whoever runs this gauntlet was challenged over and over again, and proved that their weaknesses and strengths were better than everyone else's weaknesses and strengths." Four teams doesn't do that, in my opinion. No way.

That's the point. That's what all of this is about. 4 teams, some who may or may not have been in a "strong" conference? Give me a break. This changes nothing for me as a fan. It's still broken. There's no fixing a 4 team format. I mean I hate to stroke the SEC ego, but there are years where they've had 3 teams who could have performed some serious voodoo in a playoff. And I believe, regardless of the NC game, that the 2006 B1G had 3 teams who could have done work.

8 teams at least...IMO...only way to go.
 
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CED59

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Oklahoma State couldn't have carried Bama's jockstrap. They got outplayed by a Stanford team that lost to USC* and got blasted by Oregon. If Stanford's kicker doesn't choke, they lose to a team that was (at best) the seventh or eighth best team in the country. If you are still insisting OK State is better than Bama, you are just trying to fuel controversy.

*This is not a typo. If you remember this game, you know what I am talking about.

via Joe (this is actually him.. not me)

Alabama’s offense was better than Stanford’s? I don’t see much support for that. Alabama played three good defenses, and they struggled to score against all three. It took them 7+ quarters to score a touchdown against LSU. They put up points late against Penn St. and Miss St. when their defense got tired, but struggled throughout most of those games. When Alabama couldn’t run, they couldn’t do anything. The same can’t be said for Stanford. Which defense shut down Stanford the way LSU, Penn St. and Miss St. shut down Alabama? None. The fact that Alabama was better at running up the score against shit defenses doesn’t prove it had a better offense.

What I don’t understand is why people even debate the outcome of Alabama/Ok St. The question is how Ok. St. would have performed against LSU. If Ok. St. had played LSU and won, there would be no debate about which team was the most deserving the national championship.
 

USCDoom

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You can't asterisk a fucking game. Usc lost..scoreboard

Alabama nor lsu had an offense that could keep up with okla st

LMAO!!! What about Bill Callahan? I think a lot of Nebraska fans have Asterisked 4 seasons....
 

Smart

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I never said Alabama's offense was better than Stanford's. I have Alabama scoring more points against Oklahoma State because they would have better field position, get more turnovers, and quickly stop Oklahoma State's offense (exhausting their defense). If everything else were equal, I absolutely agree Stanford has a better offense.
 

goDAWGSsicem

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I don't think anyone is going to sign off on a 17 game season.
 
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