9/18 GDT Pebbles @ Lincecums

[gp956]

QS.....pitching to score by the bullpen...we'll approve it.

 

[gp956]

 

[gp956]

Good thing, too. That was developing into an American League game.

Yep. Not sure tzill would approve of this win.

 

[Stokes1931]

Yep. Not sure tzill would approve of this win.

The win? Yes.

The score? No.

 

[Heathbar012]

Aw Hamilton duh!

Yeah. My buddy and I both guessed Big Cat.

 

[Heathbar012]

secondbaseman deeks the ump.

He believes baseball needs more soccer.

 

[Heathbar012]

The win? Yes.

The score? No.

I don't know. That was a game that was closer than the score implied, throughout, and relied on good pitching and defense. Granted, that D wasn't always spectacular, but that was a lot more National League-style than some blatant slugfest. Plus, I think tzill is more against high-scoring games than blowouts (which that game probably would have been had LeMahieu not stuck his elbow out).

 

[tzill]

Trader Joe's toasted coconut cookie thins are delicious. I'm just sayin.

Fuckin' Tommy/True Niners in da house!!

 

[gp956]

From Baggs:

I really can’t tell you if there is some kind of rift between Lincecum and Posey, but it’s pretty clear that this goes much deeper than Bochy’s explanation that he’s trying to keep his cleanup hitter fresh.

Interesting choice of words, i.e. "I really can’t tell you". That tells me there is definitely a rift on the part of one of players, probably Lincecum. Baggerly's information about it was probably obtained via an off-the-record conversation.

If I had to speculate, knowing their personalities a bit, this is what I’d tell you:

Posey has always struck me as a honor-roll student, someone who pores over and follows the scouting reports, and wants to pitch to each hitter’s weaknesses. Lincecum, as we know, is more about jazz improvisation on the mound, finding his own way while determining what pitches are working on a given night. Maybe those two approaches can be less than compatible at times.

And this makes a lot of sense. Pitching to a hitter's weakness works fine when the pitcher can consistently execute - and your advanced scouting reports are accurate.

 

[tzill]

Good thing, too. That was developing into an American League game.

And I do NOT approve.

 

[tzill]

Yep. Not sure tzill would approve of this win.

Acceptable.


I approve.

 

[tzill]

I don't know. That was a game that was closer than the score implied, throughout, and relied on good pitching and defense. Granted, that D wasn't always spectacular, but that was a lot more National League-style than some blatant slugfest. Plus, I think tzill is more against high-scoring games than blowouts (which that game probably would have been had LeMahieu not stuck his elbow out).

At least ONE of my alts gets me.

Repped.

 

[filosofy29]

From Baggs:



Interesting choice of words, i.e. "I really can’t tell you". That tells me there is definitely a rift on the part of one of players, probably Lincecum. Baggerly's information about it was probably obtained via an off-the-record conversation.



And this makes a lot of sense. Pitching to a hitter's weakness works fine when the pitcher can consistently execute - and your advanced scouting reports are accurate.

Definitely an interesting side story developing here (or maybe not so much developing as much as coming to the surface). As long as they can get along and not be a distraction, I'm ok with it. I remember after (I believe it was) their 1st start (or the first handful) together as a battery that Timmay didn't dismiss the notion that he felt more comfortable with Tubagoo as his catcher.

One thing I've noticed and I'm sure that other teams have noticed too is that Buster seems heavily reliant on the high fastball as an out pitch (pitcher doesn't seem to matter) when the count is 0-2, 1-2 or 2-2. Not saying that this is necessarily a weakness, just something I've noticed recently (post all star game) a ton watching the games.

Anyway, good find gp and definitely an interesting choice of words by Baggs.

 

[msgkings322]

From Baggs:



Interesting choice of words, i.e. "I really can’t tell you". That tells me there is definitely a rift on the part of one of players, probably Lincecum. Baggerly's information about it was probably obtained via an off-the-record conversation.



And this makes a lot of sense. Pitching to a hitter's weakness works fine when the pitcher can consistently execute - and your advanced scouting reports are accurate.

Agreed, this makes a lot of sense. Their styles maybe don't mesh perfectly.
And perhaps there's a little resentment from Tim as the team used to be 'his' team when he was winning Cys but now it's definitely Buster's with the WS win. We all know who's the team leader.

That said I think too much can be made of this. They don't seem to have any animosity, by all accounts the Giants clubhouse vibe is among the best if not the best in the game, and we are winning. Far more dysfunctional teams have done so as well.

The only minor issue I see is while we'd normally expect Posey to play first once a week, and maybe not at all in the playoffs, he's now playing first 40% of the time. Which either puts Belt on the bench or in left field. Not so bad in the regular season but maybe an issue in the playoffs.

Whatever equlibrium we are working with now seems to be working just fine. Even with Bochy's worst year of managing.

 

[calsnowskier]

Definitely an interesting side story developing here (or maybe not so much developing as much as coming to the surface). As long as they can get along and not be a distraction, I'm ok with it. I remember after (I believe it was) their 1st start (or the first handful) together as a battery that Timmay didn't dismiss the notion that he felt more comfortable with Tubagoo as his catcher.

One thing I've noticed and I'm sure that other teams have noticed too is that Buster seems heavily reliant on the high fastball as an out pitch (pitcher doesn't seem to matter) when the count is 0-2, 1-2 or 2-2. Not saying that this is necessarily a weakness, just something I've noticed recently (post all star game) a ton watching the games.

Anyway, good find gp and definitely an interesting choice of words by Baggs.

Interesting...

I wonder if Vogey's struggles are not with HIM tipping pitches, but with hitters catching on to Posey's patterns...

By most accounts, Vogeys mechanics and "stuff" has still been electric, but that the hitters are just squaring up...

 

[filosofy29]

Interesting...

I wonder if Vogey's struggles are not with HIM tipping pitches, but with hitters catching on to Posey's patterns...

By most accounts, Vogeys mechanics and "stuff" has still been electric, but that the hitters are just squaring up...

I have also noticed that the entire pitching staff (sans Lince) hasn't pitched as well since an article on either yahoo or espn was explaining our staffs' tendencies. Now, obviously advanced scouting is FAR, FAR, FAR more efficient/proficient than my eyes/memory or that article, but maybe the Giants/Buster have been slow to counteract to trends that scouts were piecing together. Vogey in particular was pointed out in the article as someone who loved to pitch "backwards" and use breaking balls on the first pitch. They also had first pitch strike percentage and the percentages used of each pitch thrown in each pitchers repertoire. Obviously, I'm speaking from a certain level of ignorance here, but they are just things I've noticed. Coincidence/causation vs. correlation errors make me skeptical on what I'm seeing as absolute fact, but I'm just spitballing here.

 

[tzill]

Agreed, this makes a lot of sense. Their styles maybe don't mesh perfectly.
And perhaps there's a little resentment from Tim as the team used to be 'his' team when he was winning Cys but now it's definitely Buster's with the WS win. We all know who's the team leader.

That said I think too much can be made of this. They don't seem to have any animosity, by all accounts the Giants clubhouse vibe is among the best if not the best in the game, and we are winning. Far more dysfunctional teams have done so as well.

The only minor issue I see is while we'd normally expect Posey to play first once a week, and maybe not at all in the playoffs, he's now playing first 40% of the time. Which either puts Belt on the bench or in left field. Not so bad in the regular season but maybe an issue in the playoffs.

Whatever equlibrium we are working with now seems to be working just fine. Even with Bochy's worst year of managing.

I'll be the contrarian here (I know, hard to believe). Here's another quote from the same story:

Lincecum, both publicly and privately, has vowed that he has no issue with Posey catching him. Posey has said there is no problem on his end, either. Both players have trustworthy reputations.

I don't think there's a rift between the two, just a preference on Timmah's part. As for the "I really can't tell you" language from Baggs -- I take it at face value; he REALLY can't tell us.

 

[tzill]

I have also noticed that the entire pitching staff (sans Lince) hasn't pitched as well since an article on either yahoo or espn was explaining our staffs' tendencies. Now, obviously advanced scouting is FAR, FAR, FAR more efficient/proficient than my eyes/memory or that article, but maybe the Giants/Buster have been slow to counteract to trends that scouts were piecing together. Vogey in particular was pointed out in the article as someone who loved to pitch "backwards" and use breaking balls on the first pitch. They also had first pitch strike percentage and the percentages used of each pitch thrown in each pitchers repertoire. Obviously, I'm speaking from a certain level of ignorance here, but they are just things I've noticed. Coincidence/causation vs. correlation errors make me skeptical on what I'm seeing as absolute fact, but I'm just spitballing here.

Kruk intimated a few days ago that Tron might be tipping his pitches. I know when I pitched it was a constant struggle to not do that. I'd lean forward when I came set to throw a curve...took me half a season to correct it.

 

[gp956]

Interesting...

I wonder if Vogey's struggles are not with HIM tipping pitches, but with hitters catching on to Posey's patterns...

By most accounts, Vogeys mechanics and "stuff" has still been electric, but that the hitters are just squaring up...

There it is. It's out there, now

 

[gp956]

Boy, I made one little comment on McCovey Chronicles and the entire community came out to pummel me.

Really?

His blocking skills aren’t fantastic. But are you really saying he can’t “catch” a pitch? Given that Zito, Lincecum, and Bochy have praised Hector’s receiving skills, how can you comfortably hold that opinion without some quantifiable data to back it up?

Those guys really HATE Hector.