.50 cal ricochet

[whyoh]

so when the dipshit with the camera says "that's the last one of them we're doin?"

what in thee hell is he talking about?

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

999 times out of a 1000 you could be correct about the bullet blowing through & not ricocheting at 100 yds. in fact you would assume that people shooting plan this way. Thing is with ricochets is unless the shooters are dumb. it is an anomoly. If you think something might ricochet when target practicing you dont shoot it.
So if a bullet did ricochet (again I am not gonnna argue fake or not) it easily could have bounced back 100 yds with force.
Think about it. it can make a kill at a mile & half. it could easliy travel 300 ft. & ricochet back over 300ft. with plenty of umf. to spare.

I am sure it should have went through the plate. But for whatever reason ricochets do happen when they shouldnt.

No, it couldn't. Because in order to bounce straight back that object has to completely stop and has to reverse direction completely. When you're dealing with a soft metal like lead, almost all that energy is absorbed by how soft it is; think a car crashing into a brick wall. The plate is either going to give way (allowing for the bullet to deform and pass through) or it's going to stop it and transfer the energy back into the projectile. With a lead projectile, this shatters it. It doesn't bounce back. Lead bullets do not ricochet straight back. They splatter. The ONLY way you're able to get one to bounce back at you in tact is if you have multiple angled targets: see this mythbusters clip that I referred to earlier:


By the time it actually does completely change direction back at the shooter, almost all energy is lost. What they don't show in this clip is all the failures it took to get to this 1 in 1000 shot as you called it. Even at almost point blank range, a bullet simply doesn't have enough energy to turn back and hit the shooter.

Here's another video on simple energy loss from the angle the bullet hits:
HowStuffWorks Videos "MythBusters: Triple Ricochet"

notice that you have to be at a pretty low angle to keep a lot of energy.

 

[fordman84]

A few things:

This sounds to be longer than 100 yard shot. There is a noticeable delay between the fire, the plink, then the whistle/bounce. 100 yards would probably not be as easy to decipher the shot and the target hit.

Second, Mythbusters are unable to replicate a lot of things that are rare feats. Just because a few people can't make it happen, doesn't mean it doesn't.

Finally, go to a gun range. Talk to people who shoot there. Talk to the range master. Ricochet, of the bullet, do happen. Look at the terrain. Maybe it did hit the steel, go right through, and caught a rock just right. Anything could have caused that, but we don't know because the video cuts out. Maybe as it passed through the plate it altered its path in one direction, which caused it to hit a rocky embankment and ricochet right back at the shooter.

It is a one in a million shot, but crazier stuff has happened. Just go google "gun range ricochet" and you will get thousands of pages of stories of people getting hit with a ricochet. the larger bullet and higher muzzle velocity just means there is more mass and energy coming back at you.

 

[fordman84]

here is a slightly longer version

 

[fordman84]

And here is a shooting forum where the guy who took the shot explains what happened, they discuss the physics of it, and to me it all sounds legit

Boom Headshot - .50 style - THR

 

[Schmoopy1000]

And here is a shooting forum where the guy who took the shot explains what happened, they discuss the physics of it, and to me it all sounds legit

Boom Headshot - .50 style - THR

I took one of the post from the link you gave & copy pasted it here

Perhaps too he was using ball ammunition which is far more prone to ricochet than a frangible bullet.

I was talking to a fellow shooter at a Military range last year and we were talking range safety fan issues. If you are unaware the fan got bigger over time. He made the comment that you just don’t know what is going on with these FMJ type bullets because you can’t see them. However, he had been shooting 30 tracer at a berm with a machine gun and he said you would not believe, until you see it, the bullets emerging from the ground and exiting virtually all directions. Including straight back.

The gun club I belong to just established a safe distance standard for metal targets and pistols. I have no idea what a safe distance is for .30 cal. We don’t allow 50 cal shooters, we don’t have the downrange safe zone. But from what I see, I think 200 yards still might be too close.

Obviously this shooter was too close to the steel target with that 50 caliber. Lucky darn thing the bullet was spent.

Sounds like a lot of these guys did some of their own homework. Which sounds to me to be very possible, if any of these guys or any of the guys they talked to know what they are talking about.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

No, it couldn't. Because in order to bounce straight back that object has to completely stop and has to reverse direction completely. When you're dealing with a soft metal like lead, almost all that energy is absorbed by how soft it is; think a car crashing into a brick wall. The plate is either going to give way (allowing for the bullet to deform and pass through) or it's going to stop it and transfer the energy back into the projectile. With a lead projectile, this shatters it. It doesn't bounce back. Lead bullets do not ricochet straight back. They splatter. The ONLY way you're able to get one to bounce back at you in tact is if you have multiple angled targets: see this mythbusters clip that I referred to earlier:


By the time it actually does completely change direction back at the shooter, almost all energy is lost. What they don't show in this clip is all the failures it took to get to this 1 in 1000 shot as you called it. Even at almost point blank range, a bullet simply doesn't have enough energy to turn back and hit the shooter.

Here's another video on simple energy loss from the angle the bullet hits:
HowStuffWorks Videos "MythBusters: Triple Ricochet"

notice that you have to be at a pretty low angle to keep a lot of energy.

now it sounds like you are just arguing to argue.
well in this theory there is no such thing as a ricochet back at a shooter & I can assure you that is incorrect. (no argument needed)

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

A few things:

This sounds to be longer than 100 yard shot. There is a noticeable delay between the fire, the plink, then the whistle/bounce. 100 yards would probably not be as easy to decipher the shot and the target hit.

Second, Mythbusters are unable to replicate a lot of things that are rare feats. Just because a few people can't make it happen, doesn't mean it doesn't.

Finally, go to a gun range. Talk to people who shoot there. Talk to the range master. Ricochet, of the bullet, do happen. Look at the terrain. Maybe it did hit the steel, go right through, and caught a rock just right. Anything could have caused that, but we don't know because the video cuts out. Maybe as it passed through the plate it altered its path in one direction, which caused it to hit a rocky embankment and ricochet right back at the shooter.

It is a one in a million shot, but crazier stuff has happened. Just go google "gun range ricochet" and you will get thousands of pages of stories of people getting hit with a ricochet. the larger bullet and higher muzzle velocity just means there is more mass and energy coming back at you.

Right, and what they'll tell you is that there's a safe zone around metal target, but that's never even remotely as far as 100 yards.

It had nothing to do with what they were able to replicate but how a lead bullet, even a FMJ, acts when it hits a metal, or also shown, concrete target. Even at perfect angles the bullet just simply does not have enough energy to bounce back as far as they need it to bounce back. For handguns, the "safe zone" is around 10 yards (shooting steel). You're not going to get a ricochet off of that. If you do, it might be just a small fragment of the bullet not going very fast.

You keep saying it's 1 in 1000; which just isn't true. A bullet simply doesn't have enough energy to travel 100 yards hit a metal plate, stay in tact and bounce back the opposite direction 100 yards; even a 50 BMG.

The google results you speak of are entirely filled of people who were either in the non-safe zone or encountered circumstances outside of shooting a target and having it come back and hit you: IE, a bullet fired from someone else on a different part of the range ricocheted and hit them.

The larger bullet means that it NEEDS the greater energy to push it that far. It's all proportional. In order to get back it would NEED a significant amount of energy still. And as already pointed out - a 50BMG against a steel target will punch right through; which, outside of the false physics of the video, is the most damning aspect to it.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

And here is a shooting forum where the guy who took the shot explains what happened, they discuss the physics of it, and to me it all sounds legit

Boom Headshot - .50 style - THR

They don't talk about anything outside of the speed at which it all takes place; which is based on the sounds + the image of the dust kicked up. As already established, this could very easily be added with any commercial video editing software.

Nothing about those posts makes me think it's legit. Just some guy claiming to be the guy in the video - which, for all we know, they did to intentionally promote their fake video.

According to the posts the ammo was just Ball Ammo - which, IMO, weakens their argument. The soft lead core would have been destroyed by the steel plate and/or it would have punched through. Again, nothing about this video adds up or even remotely makes sense in the world of physics.

 

[fordman84]

Ok, well I'm done arguing it. Don't really have a dog in the fight. Just hope others don't read this and think ricochets don't happen...they do.

 

[Peter Gozintite]

I go shooting with guys that shoot long and short range. Even at 1000 yards they pivot the hanging metal targets at about 15 degrees to the side so it cant come back.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I go shooting with guys that shoot long and short range. Even at 1000 yards they pivot the hanging metal targets at about 15 degrees to the side so it cant come back.

Of course, most places with metal targets angle them so that the splash just goes into the ground. That's not so it doesn't come back 1000 yards, that's so it doesn't unnecessarily send the bullet splash into the surrounding area.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Ok, well I'm done arguing it. Don't really have a dog in the fight. Just hope others don't read this and think ricochets don't happen...they do.

I never said ricochets don't happen, only that it's physically impossible for one to be shooting at 100 yards or greater and have one bounce all the way straight back at you, hit the ground in front of you and pop up at your head with enough force to blast off your ear protection.

Even if this was a once in a million thing, enough people now days go to the range and shoot where this would be a weekly occurrence filmed on video and uploaded onto youtube. There's a reason that only one video like this exists on the internet - because it's fake.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I never said ricochets don't happen, only that it's physically impossible for one to be shooting at 100 yards or greater and have one bounce all the way straight back at you, hit the ground in front of you and pop up at your head with enough force to blast off your ear protection.

Even if this was a once in a million thing, enough people now days go to the range and shoot where this would be a weekly occurrence filmed on video and uploaded onto youtube. There's a reason that only one video like this exists on the internet - because it's fake.

or because it is a one in a million thing!?

If the threat of a bullet coming back at the shooter wasnt real, the gun ranges wouldnt have safe ranges for shooting at metal targets. Which is probably why you never see it at gun ranges. they make sure shooters shoot out of harms way. (Safe Distance)

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

or because it is a one in a million thing!?

If the threat of a bullet coming back at the shooter wasnt real, the gun ranges wouldnt have safe ranges for shooting at metal targets. Which is probably why you never see it at gun ranges. they make sure shooters shoot out of harms way. (Safe Distance)

There are more than 300,000,000 firearms in civilian circulation today. Even if only 1/3 of those get shot just once a year, and literally just one bullet per year, this type of thing would happen 100 times a year if there was a once in a million chance. That's what you don't seem to understand.

But that's not how it works. Probably closer, if not more, to 2/3 of the firearms get shot yearly and you don't just shoot 1 bullet. The last time I went to the range I shot around 300 rounds of ammo between my few firearms. With the amount of video recording that happens at ranges now days, these kinds of things would happen weekly.

At minimum we'd see videos of "close calls" were the bullet came back at them and you could hear it whiz by. But it's physically impossible at that distance, so that's why only one, pretty fake, video exists online.


The "safe ranges" you refer to are designed to protect against splatter and ricochets that bounce beyond the range; not back at shooters. You don't want a steel range sandwiched between two regular ones because there is, in fact, a chance that a bullet could hit a target and ricochet to the side or in a more forward facing angle. The only issue you have to worry about from a shooting aspect is avoiding the spray from the exploding projectile; which as mentioned, is only a few yards (10 or so).

 

[Schmoopy1000]

There are more than 300,000,000 firearms in civilian circulation today. Even if only 1/3 of those get shot just once a year, and literally just one bullet per year, this type of thing would happen 100 times a year if there was a once in a million chance. That's what you don't seem to understand.

But that's not how it works. Probably closer, if not more, to 2/3 of the firearms get shot yearly and you don't just shoot 1 bullet. The last time I went to the range I shot around 300 rounds of ammo between my few firearms. With the amount of video recording that happens at ranges now days, these kinds of things would happen weekly.

At minimum we'd see videos of "close calls" were the bullet came back at them and you could hear it whiz by. But it's physically impossible at that distance, so that's why only one, pretty fake, video exists online.


The "safe ranges" you refer to are designed to protect against splatter and ricochets that bounce beyond the range; not back at shooters. You don't want a steel range sandwiched between two regular ones because there is, in fact, a chance that a bullet could hit a target and ricochet to the side or in a more forward facing angle. The only issue you have to worry about from a shooting aspect is avoiding the spray from the exploding projectile; which as mentioned, is only a few yards (10 or so).

well I am just gonna let it go. tired of talking to you of the possiblity & unpredictablity of ricochets with you. You have your opinion & I agree your opinion will never change. Just keep in mind I am not arguing whether the video is fake or not. Just that ricochet back at shooters does & has happened. (as your argument is it is impossible)

but we are just going in circles now.


Agree to disagree.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

well I am just gonna let it go. tired of talking to you of the possiblity & unpredictablity of ricochets with you. You have your opinion & I agree your opinion will never change. Just keep in mind I am not arguing whether the video is fake or not. Just that ricochet back at shooters does & has happened. (as your argument is it is impossible)

but we are just going in circles now.


Agree to disagree.

Yes, we are going in circles. Ricochets happen, they can bounce back but almost certainly not 100 yards off of a metal plate. Now, if we were talking a handgun round off a steel plate or in an indoor range - sure or .22lr off of a tire? Maybe. But in the case of a .50, I just will never agree that it hit a metal plate and bounced back that far. Any 50bmg round would go through almost any steel target that someone would be shooting at. Any of the stories you see about real ricochets happened usually within 25 yards of the target and almost exclusively with handgun rounds.

In this case the slower the round the more likely it is to 1. not penetrate and 2. stay in tact enough to bounce.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

 

[da55bums]

First time I saw that I could tell the motions weren't right. Also, it was proven fake within days of being released.


This video has been out and around the internet for many years, and still nothing to say it is fake.

Must have been the big eyes on that "cute" hat...anything would have thought of that as a great meal to snag...lol

 

[da55bums]

so when the dipshit with the camera says "that's the last one of them we're doin?"

what in thee hell is he talking about?

He is simply trying to be humorous because he is scared...stating that "they are not going to shoot the .50 cal anymore"....said the phrase plenty when having a close call or getting injured.

look...if a bullet doesn't hit exactly square "like car example" the energy would not go directly 180. The mass of a car and the speed isn't even in the same league with a bullet...can't remotely be compared.

A crossbow with 150 lbs of pull and able to shoot 320 fps was able to shoot 12 yards and it came back 13 yards and stuck solid into a piece of Oak wood....it was fired flat..bounced off the target (changes its angle) and hit the back wall (again changing the angle) and hit the side wall (again changing its angle) and still had enough force to stick 3/4 of an inch into the Oak wood.

If this is actually shot at 100 yards, it is definately possible...the further out the harder it is to believe...but remember...it only chipped his hearing protection...it didn't go through it...not much force was needed.