Where do the Spurs go from here?

Scapegoat · Apr 26, 2018

Inimical said:
ILL END THIS THREAD RN, ILL TELL YOU WHERE THEY GO FROM HERE, TO FUCKING SEATTLE, BRING BACK THE SUPERSONICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tlance · Apr 26, 2018

Shaqdaddy11 said:
Damn, so you actually know about opinion? You've slated people other than me before for posting their opinion and you got absolutely owned because of it. Aren't you the guy that only posts facts?

When it came down to the Kobe vs Harden thread you completely ignored total points and PPG when discussing offense. In fact you pretty much went out your way to not mention that. And you're calling me ignorant? LOL

Face it, you absolutely HATE it when people don't agree with you. To the point you come up with the "you're the worst poster on these boards" and "you don't know anything" bullshit on a weekly basis. Not just to me.

You get your panties in a bunch almost daily and try to play the 'I'm totally cool' card all the time but truth is you're nothing but a child when it comes to rational discussions.

So keep doing what you do best and cry and bitch like a little girl some more. If you truly wanted to take the high ground you would have shut the fuck up and ignored me months ago but you keep coming back for more trying to get the last word in. So if I'm the "troll" what does that make you? You've been stuck under that bridge a lot longer than I have and refuse to budge.

Have a great day, cupcake.

Not going to rehash the whole Harden/Kobe thing. But, I did address the PPG issue with the true shooting comparison. Not my fault that argument went completely over your head. Impossible to debate with someone who doesn't understand the topic. So yes, you are ignorant.

As for the worst poster thing? I do go back and forth between you and Dorian on that. It is a tough call, but you have clearly surpassed him IMO with your latest antics. Congrats!

Go ahead and get the last word if you want. I am done with you. And least until the next time you post something else ridiculously ignorant.

gohusk · Apr 26, 2018

Tough choices for them to make now that the future of the franchise has come out as a bitch.

Mecca · Apr 27, 2018

Sources around the situation have been pretty clear that the Spurs feel like they can repair the relationship, mainly because they can offer the so-called Super Max contract extension.

HurricaneDij39 · Apr 27, 2018

CitySushi said:
This doesn't make sense at all to me. If he's given indication that he doesn't want to be there, you have to move him for assets. You just have to.

My point was, it has to be the right package. To trade him just for the sake of getting something in return would create more problems than it solves. To take on some other team's dead salary is counterproductive. The Pacers were actually quite fortunate to get Oladipo and Sabonis when they did, because there's not an especially great deal of value in a disgruntled star with only a year left on his contract.

trojanfan12 · Apr 27, 2018

Mecca said:
Sources around the situation have been pretty clear that the Spurs feel like they can repair the relationship, mainly because they can offer the so-called Super Max contract extension.

I don't know. Kawhi seems like a different kind of cat. If I'm a Spurs fan and the super max is what I'm pinning my hopes on for keeping him...I'm pretty nervous.

Before @WiggyRuss comes in here saying..."Nobody is walking away from a super max contract" lol.

A super max is a helluva a lot of money...but so is a max.

Kawhi seems like he might just be a guy who would walk away from a super max if he feels like he'd be happier elsewhere.

tlance · Apr 27, 2018

HurricaneDij39 said:
My point was, it has to be the right package. To trade him just for the sake of getting something in return would create more problems than it solves. To take on some other team's dead salary is counterproductive. The Pacers were actually quite fortunate to get Oladipo and Sabonis when they did, because there's not an especially great deal of value in a disgruntled star with only a year left on his contract.

It is Kawhi Leonard. His value is far higher than George's was last summer. The Spurs might not get a package that turns out as well as Oladipo and Sabonis have, but they will certainly get a package worth substiantially more than the market value for Oladipo and Sabonis at the time of the trade.

They aren't trading a superstar for dead salary. They will get many offers to choose from and the likely return if it goes that far will certainly be a collection of young talent and picks.

The Spurs haven't been playoff mainstays for 20 years out of luck. They are one of the best managed franchises in professional sports. They will get adequate ( not equal) return for Kawhi if forced to deal him.

Mecca · Apr 27, 2018

trojanfan12 said:
I don't know. Kawhi seems like a different kind of cat. If I'm a Spurs fan and the super max is what I'm pinning my hopes on for keeping him...I'm pretty nervous.

Before @WiggyRuss comes in here saying..."Nobody is walking away from a super max contract" lol.

A super max is a helluva a lot of money...but so is a max.

Kawhi seems like he might just be a guy who would walk away from a super max if he feels like he'd be happier elsewhere.

Yeah, he's a different kind of Dude.

Based on everything that has been reported, I just don't think their situation is beyond repair.

Mecca · Apr 27, 2018

Scapegoat said:
I agree that Kawhi staying or leaving determines what happens. But as long as they have Pop they will be a good team. This season has proven that beyond a doubt. That team they put on the court this season shouldn't have been .500 and made the playoffs.
It does appear that Kawhi isn't as willing to blindly follow Pop as Duncan, Parker and Genobli.

Agree.

But, given his loss, Pop coming back isn't a guarantee either.

Maybe he's the type that throws himself into work to deal with the pain.

I guess we will see...

WiggyRuss · Apr 27, 2018

trojanfan12 said:
I don't know. Kawhi seems like a different kind of cat. If I'm a Spurs fan and the super max is what I'm pinning my hopes on for keeping him...I'm pretty nervous.

Before @WiggyRuss comes in here saying..."Nobody is walking away from a super max contract" lol.

A super max is a helluva a lot of money...but so is a max.

Kawhi seems like he might just be a guy who would walk away from a super max if he feels like he'd be happier elsewhere.

well- also have to consider- the fact that in California- there is the HIGHEST State Income Tax in the entire USA. Texas is one of the few states that has ZERO State Income Tax.

So that is a fairly decent change-----

When you consider- Super-Max vs. Max--- and NO State Income tax vs. Highest State Income tax in the USA- the amount of money does begin to be quite different.

tlance · Apr 27, 2018

WiggyRuss said:
well- also have to consider- the fact that in California- there is the HIGHEST State Income Tax in the entire USA. Texas is one of the few states that has ZERO State Income Tax.

So that is a fairly decent change-----

When you consider- Super-Max vs. Max--- and NO State Income tax vs. Highest State Income tax in the USA- the amount of money does begin to be quite different.

I guess the point is that you are assuming Kawhi chooses money over happiness.

I won't assume that. Especially when happiness comes with over $30 million a year as a consolation prize. And if he signs a short term deal like LeBron and KD have done, he can re-up with a supermax in his new home in a couple more years.

trojanfan12 · Apr 27, 2018

Mecca said:
Yeah, he's a different kind of Dude.

Based on everything that has been reported, I just don't think their situation is beyond repair.

I don't either. I expect them to get things worked out. If he stays, it'll be because he and the Spurs sat down, let cooler heads prevail and worked things out. I don't think he'd stay just to get a supermax.

trojanfan12 · Apr 27, 2018

WiggyRuss said:
well- also have to consider- the fact that in California- there is the HIGHEST State Income Tax in the entire USA. Texas is one of the few states that has ZERO State Income Tax.

So that is a fairly decent change-----

When you consider- Super-Max vs. Max--- and NO State Income tax vs. Highest State Income tax in the USA- the amount of money does begin to be quite different.

First off, who said anything about California? There are plenty of places he can go and get a max deal if he doesn't want to stay in San Antonio.

At that level of income, taxes aren't going to mean all that much. It's not like the taxes are going to change his lifestyle. With the money he'd get off of a max deal, there isn't anything that he can afford in Texas that he can't in another state.

As tlance points out, he may be a guy who chooses happiness over money, especially if it just means delaying the supermax for a couple of seasons.

WiggyRuss · Apr 27, 2018

trojanfan12 said:
First off, who said anything about California? There are plenty of places he can go and get a max deal if he doesn't want to stay in San Antonio.

At that level of income, taxes aren't going to mean all that much. It's not like the taxes are going to change his lifestyle. With the money he'd get off of a max deal, there isn't anything that he can afford in Texas that he can't in another state.

As tlance points out, he may be a guy who chooses happiness over money, especially if it just means delaying the supermax for a couple of seasons.

oh- i didnt realize you werent talking about hte Lakers- ithought you were talking about him maybe going there

and just for general info-- the top tax rate for California is 13.3%.....the rate in Texas if of course 0%

In a 200 million dollar contract thats a difference of almost 27M just in state taxes.....its pretty significant. That does not even take into account buying in everything is also really expensive with a nation high sales tax rate of 7.5%...

26 million of of 200 million certainly isnt nothing......then add on the diffrence between a max and a super max and you are talking about a significant amount of money.

trojanfan12 · Apr 27, 2018

WiggyRuss said:
oh- i didnt realize you werent talking about hte Lakers- ithought you were talking about him maybe going there

Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong...I'd love the Lakers to get him. But, while they certainly could put together a solid package, there are other teams that could put together better ones. So about the only way Kawhi gets to the Lakers is if he forces his way there by letting any other trade partners know he won't re-sign with them (and I still think someone would bring him in as a rental and hope he says). Or waiting until he becomes an FA.

WiggyRuss said:
and just for general info-- the top tax rate for California is 13.3%.....the rate in Texas if of course 0%

In a 200 million dollar contract thats a difference of almost 27M just in state taxes.....its pretty significant. That does not even take into account buying in everything is also really expensive with a nation high sales tax rate of 7.5%...

26 million of of 200 million certainly isnt nothing......then add on the diffrence between a max and a super max and you are talking about a significant amount of money.

I realize the tax situation, my argument isn't that he wouldn't keep more of his money playing in another state, it's that at his income level...it's not going to change his lifestyle.

I am well aware of California's taxes, I live here. I have some former co-workers who moved to Texas and periodically try to talk me into moving there because of how much farther their money goes compared to California.

For regular folks like us...the income tax difference is significant. At Kawhi's income level, there's nothing he can afford in Texas, that he can't in California.

ManuForever · Apr 27, 2018

Mecca said:
Agree.

But, given his loss, Pop coming back isn't a guarantee either.

Maybe he's the type that throws himself into work to deal with the pain.

I guess we will see...

Fair assumption to make but...Pop is coaching Team USA till 2020. I doubt he stops coaching the Spurs just to come back for Team USA. In fact, Pop will be the one leading the "all hands on deck" meeting they have scheduled with Kawhi in the off-season. Again, fair assumption to make that Pop leaves, but I don't see it personally.

WiggyRuss · Apr 28, 2018

trojanfan12 said:
Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong...I'd love the Lakers to get him. But, while they certainly could put together a solid package, there are other teams that could put together better ones. So about the only way Kawhi gets to the Lakers is if he forces his way there by letting any other trade partners know he won't re-sign with them (and I still think someone would bring him in as a rental and hope he says). Or waiting until he becomes an FA.

I realize the tax situation, my argument isn't that he wouldn't keep more of his money playing in another state, it's that at his income level...it's not going to change his lifestyle.

I am well aware of California's taxes, I live here. I have some former co-workers who moved to Texas and periodically try to talk me into moving there because of how much farther their money goes compared to California.

For regular folks like us...the income tax difference is significant. At Kawhi's income level, there's nothing he can afford in Texas, that he can't in California.

Its just crazy what these guys pay in taxes though man---- just saying generally

say Paul George signs a 200M dollar contract in LA-- over the course of that contract he will pay:

10% his agent (20M)
13.3% in state tax (27M)
38% in federal tax (76M)
3-5% in local tax (8M)
__________________________
Just taxes and agent fees takes his take-home pay down to 69M dollars.

Thats really pretty crazy when you think about it.

trojanfan12 · Apr 28, 2018

WiggyRuss said:
Its just crazy what these guys pay in taxes though man---- just saying generally

say Paul George signs a 200M dollar contract in LA-- over the course of that contract he will pay:

10% his agent (20M)
13.3% in state tax (27M)
38% in federal tax (76M)
3-5% in local tax (8M)
__________________________
Just taxes and agent fees takes his take-home pay down to 69M dollars.

Thats really pretty crazy when you think about it.

Oh, I agree. It's pretty crazy. Most of them, at least the smart ones, have folks who manage their money for them and find ways to save them money on taxes...but even at that, it's crazy how much of their income goes to taxes, etc.

Hornsstampede2.0 · Apr 28, 2018

1)Players try and play for NO STATE INCOME TAXES in Florida and Texas.
2)Players try to play for someplace warm and sunny.
3)Players try to play somewhere they can win and contend right away.
4)Players try to play for a recognized franchise of excellence.

San Antonio has had some issues attracting free agents because they are always in salary cap issues having big name/big contracts for the last 20 years (Robinson, Duncan, Gino, Parker).

Teams with a lot of cap are usually young teams loaded with rookie deals not vets like SA.
SA has never really had a stripped down young team with lots of salary cap room.

When they did finally have some space, they landed the biggest name is Lamarcus Aldridge.

Shaqdaddy11 · Apr 30, 2018

WiggyRuss said:
Its just crazy what these guys pay in taxes though man---- just saying generally

say Paul George signs a 200M dollar contract in LA-- over the course of that contract he will pay:

10% his agent (20M)
13.3% in state tax (27M)
38% in federal tax (76M)
3-5% in local tax (8M)
__________________________
Just taxes and agent fees takes his take-home pay down to 69M dollars.

Thats really pretty crazy when you think about it.

And make up for it with larger shoe and merchandise sales.

You think Shaq went to LA in 1996 because they were 'contenders'?

Money is easily made in Los Angeles with the spotlight on you.

Where do the Spurs go from here?

The iron never lies

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