9-2

idseer said:

1. i'd RATHER see my team play well and win every game!
2. i'd RATHER see my team play well and lose than play poorly/stupid and win.
3. i don't believe in "off days". an off day only means the coach isn't doing his job.

i understand that winning is the ONLY thing to some. i't not to me. if you feel that's a wow then there's nothing more to say.

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I get wanting the players to execute well and winning pretty us better than winning ugly but it simply makes no God damned sense to say I'd rather see them look good and lose than look bad and win. I submit that a team that "looks good" and loses is not good at all.

Nobody was happy with the performance yesterday but I'd rather be angry over a win than a loss. No two ways about that.

poewelch84 said:

I'm glad I live in New England and don't have to see people wearing a damn turnover chain because I would probably choke them with it.

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AND

jjc2009 said:

Now you know my hell.

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I do not like the Mister T starter kits either.

batchaps4me said:

AND



I do not like the Mister T starter kits either.

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You pity those fools?

Irish7478 said:

I don’t know how long you’ve been an ND fan. You can probably tell by my name, which years I attended. We won the National Championship the year before I got there, and my senior year. Additionally, I thought we had the best team in the country my freshman year, so maybe I was spoiled from an early age. If we didn’t win the National Championship it was disappointing. I never wanted to be in a conference because I hated listening to people talk about winning a conference championship like that was supposed to mean something good. The simple fact was that if we didn’t win the National Championship the season was seen as a disappointment. Unfortunately, the past several years have made the likelihood of winning a national championship seem somewhat remote, but I sincerely hope I never get to the point where I am happy about a loss regardless of what the stats say.

I truly don’t care what you think qualifies as a win. For me it’s pretty simple, its the score, it’s why they keep score. My fear is that some day a large number of ND fans will stop measuring success by the number of wins, and use things like playing up to their potential. Let’s hope that never happens.

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i've been a fan via family since early in the 50's. serious fan since '63. i used to live and die with the win thing. now i'm more into the playing to potential thing. it's why many here, you included, can't understand why i get upset sometimes even when we win. maybe you'll never understand it. i don't really care. but it's the same reason i get pissed when a batter doesn't run out a ground ball. i expect max EFFORT on every play, every down ... unlike kelly. if i were playing that's what i'd expect of myself. btw, i think the effort thing even applies to being a fan. it's easy to simply look at the W/L column and be happy or sad. it's another to see the whats and whys of game play.
so yeah ... you and i are different. you think winning is the only thing. i think playing well is the only thing .... and HOPE for the winning along the way.

jjc2009 said:

You pity those fools?

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Sadly, no. I am too old and crusty to pity poor decisions. I lived with mine.

batchaps4me said:

Sadly, no. I am too old and crusty to pity poor decisions. I lived with mine.

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I think the joke went over your head.

idseer said:

i've been a fan via family since early in the 50's. serious fan since '63. i used to live and die with the win thing. now i'm more into the playing to potential thing. it's why many here, you included, can't understand why i get upset sometimes even when we win. maybe you'll never understand it. i don't really care. but it's the same reason i get pissed when a batter doesn't run out a ground ball. i expect max EFFORT on every play, every down ... unlike kelly. if i were playing that's what i'd expect of myself. btw, i think the effort thing even applies to being a fan. it's easy to simply look at the W/L column and be happy or sad. it's another to see the whats and whys of game play.
so yeah ... you and i are different. you think winning is the only thing. i think playing well is the only thing .... and HOPE for the winning along the way.

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We are very different. That is something that makes me very happy. I hope I never get to a point where I’m satisfied simply because they tried hard regardless of the outcome.

jjc2009 said:

I think the joke went over your head.

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I got it but I just made a poor joke on those that wear $500 worth of fake gold and no belt.

jjc2009 said:

I get wanting the players to execute well and winning pretty us better than winning ugly but it simply makes no God damned sense to say I'd rather see them look good and lose than look bad and win. I submit that a team that "looks good" and loses is not good at all.

Nobody was happy with the performance yesterday but I'd rather be angry over a win than a loss. No two ways about that.

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i never said (at least i don't think i did) "looks good". you cheapen my argument when you say looks good as irish states it. tho they are close in meaning they aren't the same. i said 'plays well' or 'to their potential'. i still say a team that plays to their potential and still loses is preferable to me than playing like shit and lucking out a win. after a game i am either happy or unhappy with a performance. winning or losing is secondary. the only time i may hedge on that is in the championship game.

idseer said:

i never said (at least i don't think i did) "looks good". you cheapen my argument when you say looks good as irish states it. tho they are close in meaning they aren't the same. i said 'plays well' or 'to their potential'. i still say a team that plays to their potential and still loses is preferable to me than playing like shit and lucking out a win. after a game i am either happy or unhappy with a performance. winning or losing is secondary. the only time i may hedge on that is in the championship game.

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What about games you need to win to get into the championship game? Or does your position on this only matter in meaningless games? What about bowl games? Is it OK to lose those too, or only in the Championship game. You should send Kelly an email and let him know which games it’s OK to lose.

Irish7478 said:

What about games you need to win to get into the championship game? Or does your position on this only matter in meaningless games? What about bowl games? Is it OK to lose those too, or only in the Championship game. You should send Kelly an email and let him know which games it’s OK to lose.

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sorry you're so clueless about what i'm saying. just keep making stupid quips.

idseer said:

sorry you're so clueless about what i'm saying. just keep making stupid quips.

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I guess we would call that fighting fire with fire. Somehow it’s hard to imagine an ND fan that doesn’t care about winning football. But if someone told me that there would be a poster here who felt that way, I probably would have guessed it would be you.

i do care about winning football. and what it takes is a team that's well recruited, well coached, and motivated. do you think that's notre dame? frankly if more fans felt the way i feel notre dame might get the hint and produce something. as it is you throw your money at them and praise every win and try to ignore every loss and nothing changes. you are satisfied with slightly above mediocrity. frankly, you HAVE no fire to fight with. all you have is dreams and frustration. and god forbid everyone doesn't look at things the way you do.

idseer said:

i do care about winning football. and what it takes is a team that's well recruited, well coached, and motivated. do you think that's notre dame? frankly if more fans felt the way i feel notre dame might get the hint and produce something. as it is you throw your money at them and praise every win and try to ignore every loss and nothing changes. you are satisfied with slightly above mediocrity. frankly, you HAVE no fire to fight with. all you have is dreams and frustration. and god forbid everyone doesn't look at things the way you do.

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No, I’m the one that wants to see and expects Notre Dame to be successful. And that success equates to wins. You seem to be the one that is simply concerned with how they play the game. Did they try hard is great for 4th grade soccer and 6th grade gym class, but ND is and should be a top level football team (and basketball, and hockey, and women’s basketball) in all areas we expect success (yes, including academics). You can give them a pass by saying that they tried really, really hard but failed. I see that as the worst form of cowering. Hesburgh used to say that he expected excellence in all areas. He never said he would be satisfied with a decent effort regardless of the outcome. It’s certainly easier to expect effort without expecting results, but I hope we never get to the point where mediocrity is acceptable.

Irish7478 said:

No, I’m the one that wants to see and expects Notre Dame to be successful. And that success equates to wins. You seem to be the one that is simply concerned with how they play the game. Did they try hard is great for 4th grade soccer and 6th grade gym class, but ND is and should be a top level football team (and basketball, and hockey, and women’s basketball) in all areas we expect success (yes, including academics). You can give them a pass by saying that they tried really, really hard but failed. I see that as the worst form of cowering. Hesburgh used to say that he expected excellence in all areas. He never said he would be satisfied with a decent effort regardless of the outcome. It’s certainly easier to expect effort without expecting results, but I hope we never get to the point where mediocrity is acceptable.

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if that's what you got from my post then there's little sense in talking to you. you think i DON'T want to see the team be successful? who the fuck are you kidding? your mind must be open about 90 degrees which means you miss about 270 degrees of what's real! if you really believe 'trying hard' is just for 4th graders then you never learned a thing in 4th grade. you are the worst kind of fan imo.

let's drop it.

idseer said:

if that's what you got from my post then there's little sense in talking to you. you think i DON'T want to see the team be successful? who the fuck are you kidding? your mind must be open about 90 degrees which means you miss about 270 degrees of what's real! if you really believe 'trying hard' is just for 4th graders then you never learned a thing in 4th grade. you are the worst kind of fan imo.

let's drop it.

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I’m simply saying that you stated that you would prefer the team to lose and play to it’s potential than win, but play poorly. I’d rather win. In the 45 years that I have followed ND we have won dozens of games where we played poorly, but were still able to pull out a win. In our National Championship season of 1977 we played like crap against Purdue, and barely beat them, had we lost that game we never would have played Texas for the championship. But you would have preferred that we lose it because we didn’t play up to our potential. Same thing happened in our game against Michigan State in our championship season in 73. I just don’t understand the logic in preferring a loss to a win.

Hell, the expression the Luck of the Irish as it pertains to football came around by winning games that we had no reason to win because of what was considered a lucky break. Many of those games should never have been close, but we won. I’m sure that you would have preferred we lose some or all of them. I tend to be happy with the win.

Do you think the guys during the Gerry Faust years didn’t try hard? Were those great years for you as an ND fan because of their effort? At some point, trying hard is nice, but we expect positive results. If that makes me the worst kind of fan, I’m OK with that. And, if you think that your opinion of me and your opinion of what qualifies as a good fan means anything to me, you are incredibly mistaken.

last attempt. let's see if you can grasp it this time. my original post:
""i would rather see my team play well and lose than be clearly the superior team going in and look look shit but still win.""

you seem to see this as ... i want to see nd play well and lose. when the team plays poorly and still wins i am glad for the win but unhappy with how they did it. i would prefer the team plays well ... all the time, but if it plays and still loses i am happier with that scenario than the former. i would think an 8th grader would understand what i'm saying. you obviously don't know how to comprehend what i wrote. still, i refuse to dumb down my posts for you. all the wasted time you spent telling me about nd history is just that ... a waste of time.

idseer said:

last attempt. let's see if you can grasp it this time. my original post:
""i would rather see my team play well and lose than be clearly the superior team going in and look look shit but still win.""

you seem to see this as ... i want to see nd play well and lose. when the team plays poorly and still wins i am glad for the win but unhappy with how they did it. i would prefer the team plays well ... all the time, but if it plays and still loses i am happier with that scenario than the former. i would think an 8th grader would understand what i'm saying. you obviously don't know how to comprehend what i wrote. still, i refuse to dumb down my posts for you. all the wasted time you spent telling me about nd history is just that ... a waste of time.

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No, I’m saying that sometimes a team will have an off day. And sometimes they overcome the bad day and win. That, in my mind is the sign of a championship level team. Wanting the team to lose those games makes no sense to me.

Please re-Read Post #8. What exactly are you saying, because it seems like you are saying that you would rather see ND play well and lose rather than be the superior team and look like shit and win. My position is that sometimes playing like shit and winning can be part of a championship season. Would you expect Miami fans to have wished that they lost their games to Georgia Tech, Syracuse and North Carolina just because they played like shit. Three losses and no one would be considering them for the playoff, but based on you philosophy that would be preferable to going into the playoff with three wins where they played poorly and won.

I think it is clear that I will never agree with the idea that losing while playing well is somehow better than winning while playing poorly. You really do remind me of a Vanderbilt fan.

@idseer @Irish7478 @jjc2009

Hey you old fucks, some of us here weren't born in time to see a National Championship.

ChicagoIrish said:

@idseer @Irish7478 @jjc2009

Hey you old fucks, some of us here weren't born in time to see a National Championship.

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Hey I was only alive for the last two. And I only remember the last one. I might have appreciated it more at the time if I thought it would be the last one.