Top 10 players of all time

[gordontrue]

And you're nuts for saying he's in the top 5 before he's finished his career, especially as he has a losing record in the finals as the lead player.

Yet... you have Wilt at #3.... who won 2 titles in 6 finals appearances...

 

[trojanfan12]

You and I will never agree on the Championship/Finals record deal. That is all good. That being said, it sounds like you are putting LeBron at 4, which I can't argue with. I think he is closer to Kareem and Magic than you do, but as has been established, we each place different values on what is most important in the discussion. I can accept that and I am not really interested in rehashing those reasons.

Agree. I have him at 4, but I do have a bigger gap between him and Magic/Kareem than you do. I think he needs at least 1 more title to become interchangeable with them.

I don't consider titles to be the most important thing, I consider them the tiebreaker. When you are talking about all time greats, there is so little difference in their resume's that a tiebreaker becomes necessary and that tiebreaker has always been championships.

I don't think LeBron deserves extra credit because he won in Cleveland. I think he deserves extra credit for beating a great team with a supporting cast that might not have made the playoffs without LeBron on the roster.

It's hard to say whether or not that team would make the playoffs without him or not. They still had some very talented players and the team that Lebron went to the finals with, isn't the team that was finishing in the lotto before he arrived. If the Cavs had kept the roster they had when Lebron agreed to return, I'd agree that he gets extra credit. But that's not the team he won the title with.

When I see LeBron ranked much lower than 5, I have no choice but to question the methodology. The most likely case for any that come to that conclusion is bias. There is still a lot of LeBron hate out there.

I do agree that there is a lot of Lebron hate out there, most of which he brings on himself. But just because someone doesn't agree with you (or me for that matter) on where he should be listed all time, doesn't mean it's hate or bias. That's a weak argument. The top 5 and even top 10 players of all time have tremendous resume's and pretty strong arguments can be made for moving virtually any of them up or down the list.

 

[gordontrue]

Anyone who thinks lebron is better than Magic clearly knows nothing about basketball.

Its not even close to being as easy of a call to go around making statements like that

 

[gordontrue]

One argument for LeBron being on or close to the same tier as Magic/Kareem.... Magic & Kareem were teammates. They were together for all of Magic's titles and 5 of Kareem's 6 titles. LeBron and Jordan have had some GREAT teammates, but no one that would ever be considered top-10 all time.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Yet... you have Wilt at #3.... who won 2 titles in 6 finals appearances...

Do I? Where did I say that?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

One argument for LeBron being on or close to the same tier as Magic/Kareem.... Magic & Kareem were teammates. They were together for all of Magic's titles and 5 of Kareem's 6 titles. LeBron and Jordan have had some GREAT teammates, but no one that would ever be considered top-10 all time.

Which makes it even more impressive for Magic and Kareem to be in the top 3 considering one of them had to be the #2 option at any given time. Lebron was the clear #1 guy his entire career.

 

[tlance]

Which makes it even more impressive for Magic and Kareem to be in the top 3 considering one of them had to be the #2 option at any given time. Lebron was the clear #1 guy his entire career.

That logic just doesn't make sense. They are top 5 players in large part because of the ring counts. The ring counts are what they are because they were on the same team. It is much more impressive to win multiple titles as te clear #1 option.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Anyone who thinks lebron is better than Magic clearly knows nothing about basketball.

To not put him in at least the discussion is absurd. Magic will even tell you this.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

It is much more impressive to win multiple titles as te clear #1 option.

By your logic then why isn't Shaq in the top 3? In the span of about five or six years he was the most dominant and best player in the league by far and got three titles. Why is he never in the discussion as GOAT?

 

[Shanemansj13]

No. If you were around to see him play in the 80s you'd know that no way is he better than Magic and Kareem. He's probably not up to Larry Bird yet.

But I get it, you millennials have probably only seen a handful of stars so lebron has to be up there

You do understand Magic and Kareem played with each other and they had HOFr's surrounding them. Their teams were Always great. Some of Lebron's teams have been bad especially his early years in Cleveland. Even this year is nowhere near the talent Magic had. Lebron is already at least 5 most likely top 3.

 

[Wamu]

You do understand Magic and Kareem played with each other and they had HOFr's surrounding them. Their teams were Always great. Some of Lebron's teams have been bad especially his early years in Cleveland. Even this year is nowhere near the talent Magic had. Lebron is already at least 5 most likely top 3.

Magic & KAJ had Big Game James. LeBron got Delonte West.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Do I? Where did I say that?

Swap Wilt with Magic and Duncan with Lebron and i'm with you!

You don't even know your own top 10

 

[tlance]

By your logic then why isn't Shaq in the top 3? In the span of about five or six years he was the most dominant and best player in the league by far and got three titles. Why is he never in the discussion as GOAT?

He wasn't the best player for nearly as long as LeBron. Maybe 3-5 years. Injuries hurt him and he paired with another top 10 all time player for 3 rings. By the time he got to Miami, he was clearly taking a back seat to Wade. Shaq himself even admits as much.

Shaq is comfortably top 10, but I have him well behind Kareem. Shaq, Hakeem and Wilt all belong in the same tier. Again, I personally rank them:

Hakeem
Wilt
Shaq

But it is very close. That is my 5,6,7.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

You don't even know your own top 10

Post #89 and read my reply. Swap Wilt with Magic and where do those players land?

Start drinking early finger popper, or is your comprehension of the English language not above a 3rd grade level?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

He wasn't the best player for nearly as long as LeBron. Maybe 3-5 years. Injuries hurt him and he paired with another top 10 all time player for 3 rings. By the time he got to Miami, he was clearly taking a back seat to Wade. Shaq himself even admits as much.

Shaq is comfortably top 10, but I have him well behind Kareem. Shaq, Hakeem and Wilt all belong in the same tier. Again, I personally rank them:

Hakeem
Wilt
Shaq

But it is very close. That is my 5,6,7.

Curry has been the best player the last couple of years. Durant before that. Lebron has a good finals series and all of a sudden he's the GOAT?

 

[tlance]

Curry has been the best player the last couple of years. Durant before that. Lebron has a good finals series and all of a sudden he's the GOAT?

They have won MVP awards. That does not make them the best player in the league. That mantle clearly belongs to LeBron and has for some time.

 

[CitySushi]

They have won MVP awards. That does not make them the best player in the league. That mantle clearly belongs to LeBron and has for some time.

Exactly. MVP's are never given to the best player, it's the player who performed the best over the course of that year. Things factor in like taking for granted Lebron's typical stat line and their team's performance.

It's why Jordan and Shaq should both have way more MVP's than they do. MVP's are acknowledgement for a superb season, but it has nothing to do with who the best player in the league is.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

That mantle clearly belongs to LeBron and has for some time.

That's open to interpretation

 

[WiggyRuss]

Exactly. MVP's are never given to the best player, it's the player who performed the best over the course of that year. Things factor in like taking for granted Lebron's typical stat line and their team's performance.

It's why Jordan and Shaq should both have way more MVP's than they do. MVP's are acknowledgement for a superb season, but it has nothing to do with who the best player in the league is.

i dont agree with this statement- that they are NEVER given to the best player- but i do agree with the overall sentiment that the "best player"- always does not win the MVP. Derek Rose winning over LeBron is a great example.

 

[mannyz]

How many of you saw all these guys play? I did. I would put Wilt at 2, Magic at 3. Jordan was the best ever.