politics thread

[j_y19]

I'm on the fence about term limits. While I see your point there have been a whole lot of really good people in Congress who are not as corrupt as Trump's gangsters, they have done a great job for decades on both sides of the aisle.

See, here you go again. Trump's gangsters? Really? How does that further anything? Are they any different than the Clinton gangsters? Does this mean that all Republicans are gangsters?

For the record, if someone posted Clinton gangsters, I would send the same reply to them.

If we are truly interested in getting government to work again for us, we have got to stop with the notion that those that see things differently are evil. We all want the same thing. Security, health, opportunity, freedom. When we get back to that understanding, then we can start coming up with policies that may not make either side completely happy, but moves the ball forward yard by yard.

 

[Sharkinva]

So why take the bait? That is why he throws that shit out there. Its called deflection. He changes the argument and pits us against one another so that the focus turns away from his dealings. Oh, and its not just him, the Republicans don't own the franchise for doing this. I can point out numerous examples of politicians on the other side doing the exact same thing on other hot issues. Let's not act like one one sides shit stinks. This is the point I'm trying to make. We need to stop complaining about the weeds in our neighbor's yard when our yard is stock full of weeds.

I get where you are coming from. Now here is my take.... until about a year ago I was a died in the wool republican. I voted for the Cheeto. But the reality is, I gave Obama a chance and yet also realized that alot of folks real issue with him isn't his politics. I also realize that while I did not agree with all of his methods, I did feel that he was actually trying to make the country a better place for ALL Americans and everyone in this country.

We now have the polar opposite in the white house. The reason I Don't care what Hillary did is this exact reason.. she lost. And as such her policies are not the ones being enacted in this country. They spent 25 yeas going after the Clintons and found nothing credible enough to charge them on save for a blow job and an unauthorized use of a cigar.

I agree we need term limits in every aspect of our government to include the judicial system. I dont think Trump should be impeached UNLESS something more substantial than lying about paying off some side pieces comes out. NOw if it does come out he is some how compromised or beholden to the Russians or Saudis, then he needs impeached. But I also think the Mueller investigation has to play out and what ever he finds needs to be made public so that in two years the American voters have a real picture of who they are deciding on.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Would you lie over something as inconsequential as payments to a whore when it is literally nobody’s business?

Again, why is it such a deal that his son got dirt from the Russians?

You claim to be anti-lying. There is actual proof that Obama lied to the American people about Benghazi, very consequential considering four Americans died. You overlook it with no outrage. But, if Trump is lying and you assume he is with no real proof, you are outraged.

It is funny...you assume to know what I believe but have never asked. I am the most open book person on these forums.

We are finding out now that this lie is significant. Again why lie? Because it is obvious that that he knew that what he was doing was wrong as has been discussed earlier in the thread. While I understand all politicians lie this guy has taken it to levels never seen before. I never said it was OK for Obama or anyone else to lie, you are doing as you accused me of doing by assuming my opinion. I just kind of reject the deflection to Obama or Hillary when they are no longer in the picture, they are insignificant today. We are discussing the constant lies from our current President.


Why is it significant that his son got dirt, or tried to anyway, on Clinton? Because it shows the Trump's willingness to work with Russia, who knows what else occurred and that is why this investigation started in the first place. And again the comment I made was more about the President's continued lies on the subject, not the meeting itself.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

See, here you go again. Trump's gangsters? Really? How does that further anything? Are they any different than the Clinton gangsters? Does this mean that all Republicans are gangsters?

For the record, if someone posted Clinton gangsters, I would send the same reply to them.

If we are truly interested in getting government to work again for us, we have got to stop with the notion that those that see things differently are evil. We all want the same thing. Security, health, opportunity, freedom. When we get back to that understanding, then we can start coming up with policies that may not make either side completely happy, but moves the ball forward yard by yard.

I think it's pretty clear from the number of indictments, convictions, and felony pleas that the Trump Administration has had more crooks than Clinton or any other administration, at least in our lifetime. And again seeing as he won with the promise to Drain the Swamp all of these issues are even more significant. I never claimed all Republicans are gangsters, we know for a fact that Trump surrounded himself with plenty of them.

It's like a guy campaigning to ban alcohol, then he is discovered to have a bootlegging business on the side. It's much worse when you preach one thing and do the exact opposite. And that's exactly what he did with the Drain the Swamp promise, then proceeded to fill his cabinet with crooks.

 

[Rowdy]

Would you lie over something as inconsequential as payments to a whore when it is literally nobody’s business?

Again, why is it such a deal that his son got dirt from the Russians?

You claim to be anti-lying. There is actual proof that Obama lied to the American people about Benghazi, very consequential considering four Americans died. You overlook it with no outrage. But, if Trump is lying and you assume he is with no real proof, you are outraged.

It is funny...you assume to know what I believe but have never asked. I am the most open book person on these forums.

Lied about his silly ass health care too

 

[Rowdy]

Muellers true political leanings are pointed out because the great orange cheeto on the daily makes a point of telling any and everyone how bad democrats are and how they will feed your babies to MS-13. And he calls Mueller a democrat knowing that both allegations are untrue.

IM actually shocked none of his more rabid cult members have tried to assassinate Robert Mueller yet.

How about the team that rhino republican put together, all Clinton cronies

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I’ll say it again. Anyone taking a hard look at the backgrounds of Robert Mueller and President Trump and have determined that Mueller is the crooked one is being disengenious. At this point his supporters appear uninterested in learning the truth, they only want to find any excuse to discredit Mueller. He came in with impeccable credentials, Newt Gingrich as well as many hard line Trump Republicans agreed on that assessment. To discredit him this way is just wrong. Let him do his job, if there is nothing to hide then what is Trump afraid of?

Taking down a President has a very high bar, as it should. To believe Mueller and his team would try to do that without concrete evidence for political reasons is idiotic.

 

[Rowdy]

Comey confirms he avoided standard procedure in ordering FBI agents to wh to interview Flynn, and basically coxed him in to answering questions without a lawyer present. They set up a trap on this highly decorated American!

 

[Sharkinva]

How about the team that rhino republican put together, all Clinton cronies

Its odd that Mueller is now considered a RINO when for the last 20 plus years he has been considered above reproach by both sides of the isle. He was even interviewed for the AG job by the current President.

Fast forward two weeks from that interview, he is named the head of the special counsel, and all of a sudden he is really a democrat bent on getting back at the president over everything from not getting the AG job, to some dispute over a canceled golf membership.

 

[j_y19]

I think it's pretty clear from the number of indictments, convictions, and felony pleas that the Trump Administration has had more crooks than Clinton or any other administration, at least in our lifetime. And again seeing as he won with the promise to Drain the Swamp all of these issues are even more significant. I never claimed all Republicans are gangsters, we know for a fact that Trump surrounded himself with plenty of them.

It's like a guy campaigning to ban alcohol, then he is discovered to have a bootlegging business on the side. It's much worse when you preach one thing and do the exact opposite. And that's exactly what he did with the Drain the Swamp promise, then proceeded to fill his cabinet with crooks.

Listen, I don't like the guy and I will not vote for him if he were to ever run again. As you said, he is a bold face liar without remorse. I don't trust him as far as I can throw him. But I can't measure the degree of a lie to determine if one is worse than another. As someone pointed out earlier, the lie about Bengazi was as bad as it can get as far as I am concerned. If Trump is found to have lied to us and he dealt with Russia in order to sway the election, he needs to go immediately and prosecuted for we need to send a loud and clear message to all who will run.

I honestly couldn't care less about his alleged hush money payments just like I couldn't really care less about Bill's white house escapades. They both lied to cover their asses. I don't think that if Trump's affairs surfaced before the election, it would have made a difference. Hell, if he didn't lose supporters after his grab them in the pussy tape, an affair wouldn't change minds.

Near as I can tell, there is no evidence that the Trump team coordinated Russian interference in the election or was even aware of it. It appears, the Trump minions met with Russians for business reasons and to see what dirt they had on Hillary, neither of which are illegal. Remember, Trump had stepped down as head of his Trump businesses before all of this. Just because he is running for office doesn't mean that Trump Industries has to shut down. And a significant part of their business comes from overseas. So little Trump (who is running the Trump businesses since Cheetos stepped down), has every right to meet with Russian interests as long as those discussions do not involve discussions about National securities or violate election campaign laws. But asking them about Hillary is not a violation. So far there isn't one scintilla of evidence that says that Trump Jr or Daddy himself ever discussed election influencing with the Russians. In all of these convictions, none even hint that this ever happened. The closest is the Flynn conviction. This is ironic in that it was determined that Flynn meeting with the Russians before Trump taking office is not illegal or even unexpected. Incoming administrations often meet with reps from other key countries before the swearing in. So there was no reason for Flynn to lie about the meeting. And that is what he was found guilty of. Lying about the meeting, not the meeting itself.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I care about our leader following the law, allowing the investigation to proceed without his interference, and to hold those accountable should crimes be discovered. We need to allow Mueller to fully investigate this and all the side roads he has found as he investigates an administration full of people who broke the law. He should be able to do his job without his target and supporters constantly attacking and attempting to discredit a man with tremendous integrity. And he should be allowed to take as much time as necessary to complete the job. We have not seen evidence of collusion because the report has not been released. I’m NOT saying it happened, just pointing out how not seeing any evidence to date does not mean it didn’t happen.

I fail to see how this is an unreasonable position to take. I don’t understand the need to reference Obama or Hillary but as I said I think lying about Benghazi was wrong too. But we are discussed President Trump, the investigative and how he has surround himself with a cabinet full of crooks and liars against after the promise to drain the swamp.

 

[gkekoa]

I should never say "no chance" because nothing is absolute. However it's pretty clear to most why he did this. I'd also like to point out that the Attorney General at the time was Jeff Sessions, man who was so biased against the investigation that he had no choice but to recuse himself. So yeah that recommendation only supports my claim that it was motivated by Comey's refusal to compromise his position and play by Trump's rules. By the way what happened to Sessions again? Oh yeah, he was fired by Trump for recusing himself instead of staying involved and offering the President more protection. Yet more evidence that President Trump is trying to influence this investigation instead of just allowing it to play out. Every move he has made throughout simply does not look like the actions of a man with nothing to hide.

I never said people should be investigated without evidence of a crime. I simply said an investigation goes where the evidence takes it, even if it's off the original target. And again multiple indictments and guilty please from those investigated gives a clear indication that they had in fact committed crimes, further proof the detour was justified.

Trump claimed the reason was turmoil in the FBI and a lack of confidence. He also said he knew nothing of the Daniels payment and countless other lies. I'll leave it that.

I agree if Hillary was doing the same she should be held accountable as well.

As for backroom deals it's one thing to do that while negotiating a trade deal, quite another to be doing it with a hostile foreign government to influence our election.

Jeff Sessions didn’t have to recuse himself, and that is the issue many have with Sessions. He chose to recuse himself. Personally, I feel people such as Sotamayor and Kagan should have recused themselves on gay marriage but they lacked the honor to do so. That is actual bias.

Actually, the guilty pleas and charges do nothing but support it is a witch hunt. What does Cohen’s tax records have to do with Russian collusion? Are indictments against 14 Russians that will never be extradited really indictments and is there any actual evidence? I also go back and ask if collusion is a crime because it isn’t. So people are being investigated and charged with a crime over an investigation of a non-crime. So if you believe charges unrelated to what is supposed to be investigated is OK, what if an actual racist gets in office and wants to investigate Keith Ellison for crimes. He then opens a bogus investigation into Ellison’s one time acquaintance Joe for jaywalking and says go wherever the investigation leads you. He then finds Ellison had an issue with tax fraud a few years ago and arrests him. Will you be supportive or will you simply say he went after the black guy because he is a racist.

Trump lies...he has also been more truthful than every other POTUS I can remember withregard to what he is working to achieve. People lie.

How about Obama? He actually lied to the American people to further his campaign over Benghazi. That is an actual fact.

How is it different? All foreign nations are hostile. What makes Russia, an actual ally, hostile but Iran isn’t?

 

[gkekoa]

We are finding out now that this lie is significant. Again why lie? Because it is obvious that that he knew that what he was doing was wrong as has been discussed earlier in the thread. While I understand all politicians lie this guy has taken it to levels never seen before. I never said it was OK for Obama or anyone else to lie, you are doing as you accused me of doing by assuming my opinion. I just kind of reject the deflection to Obama or Hillary when they are no longer in the picture, they are insignificant today. We are discussing the constant lies from our current President.


Why is it significant that his son got dirt, or tried to anyway, on Clinton? Because it shows the Trump's willingness to work with Russia, who knows what else occurred and that is why this investigation started in the first place. And again the comment I made was more about the President's continued lies on the subject, not the meeting itself.

What made the lie significant?

So past crimes are OK if you are no longer in the picture?

So willingness to work with a UN ally is bad? But willingness to work with Iran is OK?

 

[j_y19]

I care about our leader following the law, allowing the investigation to proceed without his interference, and to hold those accountable should crimes be discovered. We need to allow Mueller to fully investigate this and all the side roads he has found as he investigates an administration full of people who broke the law. He should be able to do his job without his target and supporters constantly attacking and attempting to discredit a man with tremendous integrity. And he should be allowed to take as much time as necessary to complete the job. We have not seen evidence of collusion because the report has not been released. I’m NOT saying it happened, just pointing out how not seeing any evidence to date does not mean it didn’t happen.

I fail to see how this is an unreasonable position to take. I don’t understand the need to reference Obama or Hillary but as I said I think lying about Benghazi was wrong too. But we are discussed President Trump, the investigative and how he has surround himself with a cabinet full of crooks and liars against after the promise to drain the swamp.

Your position is not unreasonable. But where does it stop? I just read that as the next speaker, Pelosi has made it a priority to get Trump's tax returns. For what, I wonder. Is it to compare them to hers? What would the Speaker of the House need so urgently the President's tax returns? Of course she wants them reviewed to find where he might have cheated. Mind you, she has no facts or proof that there are issues. But there have to be. Would you consider this a "fishing trip"?

Honestly, I think the Democrats are making a huge mistake here. They have the opportunity, once the next Congress is sworn, in to become the adults in the room. Because Trump will never fill that bill. Want to win hearts and minds? Be above him. Show the populace that he is the child and the country can't move forward with such leadership. Present legislation to him and let him rant, rave, belittle, and threaten. Show the country who wants to move forward and who can't.

Also, I only reference Bengazi to address your issue to the degree of the lie. That was a lie that really bothered me as it was not only told to knowingly deceive the country, but threw some really good people under the bus (who were dead and couldn't defend themselves). These personal dalliances they lie about mean nothing to me. That's between them and their loved ones. But the are still wrongs and if we go after one, we should go after all.

 

[Sharkinva]

Your position is not unreasonable. But where does it stop? I just read that as the next speaker, Pelosi has made it a priority to get Trump's tax returns. For what, I wonder. Is it to compare them to hers? What would the Speaker of the House need so urgently the President's tax returns? Of course she wants them reviewed to find where he might have cheated. Mind you, she has no facts or proof that there are issues. But there have to be. Would you consider this a "fishing trip"?

The reason they want his taxes is because the normal process is to look at potential POTUS finances to ensure that the person who might be running the country, is not in any type of money trouble that would leave them open to being influenced against the country's better interests in order to get out of their own money troubles. Things like owing millions, or possible billions in Trumps case, to Russian banks (some of which we had sanctions against) COuld be a red flag.

Trump and his family brought the tax thing on themselves boasting how they had all the money they needed to do business from Russian banks. So its kinda the same reason why they do a credit and background check if you are applying for say, chief loan officer at a bank. You might have the qualifications for the job, but if you have a 450 beacon score and own $90k in back child support, odds are they wont hire you.

Same general premise....

 

[j_y19]

The reason they want his taxes is because the normal process is to look at potential POTUS finances to ensure that the person who might be running the country, is not in any type of money trouble that would leave them open to being influenced against the country's better interests in order to get out of their own money troubles. Things like owing millions, or possible billions in Trumps case, to Russian banks (some of which we had sanctions against) COuld be a red flag.

Trump and his family brought the tax thing on themselves boasting how they had all the money they needed to do business from Russian banks. So its kinda the same reason why they do a credit and background check if you are applying for say, chief loan officer at a bank. You might have the qualifications for the job, but if you have a 450 beacon score and own $90k in back child support, odds are they wont hire you.

Same general premise....

I'm sure that's why she wants them. God, I hate to be in a position of defending trump, but he provided all of the financials he was required to do to address your issues as part of the required documentation to run. So that dog don't hunt. C'mon shark, you and I know exactly what she wants to do. Her sole focus over the next 2 years is to impeach Trump. I for one have an issue with my tax dollars funding her personal vendetta.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'm sure that's why she wants them. God, I hate to be in a position of defending trump, but he provided all of the financials he was required to do to address your issues as part of the required documentation to run. So that dog don't hunt. C'mon shark, you and I know exactly what she wants to do. Her sole focus over the next 2 years is to impeach Trump. I for one have an issue with my tax dollars funding her personal vendetta.

And I would feel alot more sympathy for the situation if the previous President did not have to deal with six years of congress fighting him on every measure, and now currently doing everything they can to remove anything he did and to hell with the consequences. I hoped he would grow into the office and be a President for everyone. From what i see, if you dont kiss the ring.. he would sooner deport you.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Jeff Sessions didn’t have to recuse himself, and that is the issue many have with Sessions. He chose to recuse himself. Personally, I feel people such as Sotamayor and Kagan should have recused themselves on gay marriage but they lacked the honor to do so. That is actual bias.

Actually, the guilty pleas and charges do nothing but support it is a witch hunt. What does Cohen’s tax records have to do with Russian collusion? Are indictments against 14 Russians that will never be extradited really indictments and is there any actual evidence? I also go back and ask if collusion is a crime because it isn’t. So people are being investigated and charged with a crime over an investigation of a non-crime. So if you believe charges unrelated to what is supposed to be investigated is OK, what if an actual racist gets in office and wants to investigate Keith Ellison for crimes. He then opens a bogus investigation into Ellison’s one time acquaintance Joe for jaywalking and says go wherever the investigation leads you. He then finds Ellison had an issue with tax fraud a few years ago and arrests him. Will you be supportive or will you simply say he went after the black guy because he is a racist.

Trump lies...he has also been more truthful than every other POTUS I can remember withregard to what he is working to achieve. People lie.

How about Obama? He actually lied to the American people to further his campaign over Benghazi. That is an actual fact.

How is it different? All foreign nations are hostile. What makes Russia, an actual ally, hostile but Iran isn’t?

What did Bill's affair have to do with Whitewater? Again the investigation goes where the evidence takes it. You appear to be in favor of an investigator simply overlooking evidence of possible crimes as it's off target from the initial investigation. That is simply not going to happen, nor should it. If crimes are discovered it's his job to follow up on that. As Americans we have right to know if our leader or his staff is breaking the law, any law, and they should be held accountable. Again I don't think that is an unreasonable position to take.

By continuing to point out that collusion is not a crime you continue to act as if it's OK and should not be investigated. It's not OK and we need to know exactly what happened.

I will no longer reply to "what about.....?" We are discussing President Trump and what has been found in this investigation. Obama or anyone else does not belong in the discussion. But for the record I have posted repeatedly that when Obama lied it was wrong too.

Sessions could not stay involved in the investigation for obvious reasons, he was partial and was already hindering the investigation with his convenient bout of amnesia. You can not have a fair, complete investigation if one of the key plays is a huge backer of the guy under investigation and constantly throwing up road blocks. So he "chose" to recuse himself because he had no choice, he obviously didn't want to.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Its odd that Mueller is now considered a RINO when for the last 20 plus years he has been considered above reproach by both sides of the isle. He was even interviewed for the AG job by the current President.

Fast forward two weeks from that interview, he is named the head of the special counsel, and all of a sudden he is really a democrat bent on getting back at the president over everything from not getting the AG job, to some dispute over a canceled golf membership.

This. But it's not like this has not been a pattern of his base. Every single person Trump hired was cheered at the time, their man is making great hires! But the second they cross Trump suddenly they are stupid, corrupt etc.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Your position is not unreasonable. But where does it stop? I just read that as the next speaker, Pelosi has made it a priority to get Trump's tax returns. For what, I wonder. Is it to compare them to hers? What would the Speaker of the House need so urgently the President's tax returns? Of course she wants them reviewed to find where he might have cheated. Mind you, she has no facts or proof that there are issues. But there have to be. Would you consider this a "fishing trip"?

Honestly, I think the Democrats are making a huge mistake here. They have the opportunity, once the next Congress is sworn, in to become the adults in the room. Because Trump will never fill that bill. Want to win hearts and minds? Be above him. Show the populace that he is the child and the country can't move forward with such leadership. Present legislation to him and let him rant, rave, belittle, and threaten. Show the country who wants to move forward and who can't.

Also, I only reference Bengazi to address your issue to the degree of the lie. That was a lie that really bothered me as it was not only told to knowingly deceive the country, but threw some really good people under the bus (who were dead and couldn't defend themselves). These personal dalliances they lie about mean nothing to me. That's between them and their loved ones. But the are still wrongs and if we go after one, we should go after all.

I think there is a very real reason Trump was unwilling to release his tax returns as every candidate for the last 40 years has and as he preaches "transparency". What is he hiding? I think that's a valid question.