politics thread

[Stymietee]

None at all. I completely agree. Why is Hillary not in prison when Comey admitted she committed a crime?

He's a republican, you try to make some sense out of the way they think!

 

[Stymietee]

Every person who has ran for office has lied to get elected. First term, Obama stated he was against same sex marriage. Second term, he stated he was for it.

So, you're that one person who never changes his mind on anything. Just joking man, but honestly, isn't it possible to change one's mind on a particular subject and it not be a lie?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Can we agree that Hillary definitely did the same thing by buying a dossier? Do you honestly believe every candidate doesn’t do this exact same thing?

Except he didn’t try to force Comey to change the course. He fired Comey for other reasons. I know you believe it was for the investigation; however, I would have fired Comey for the reasons given.

So, he should be allowed to investigate you if he claims it will help him get to Russia collusion, which is not a crime?

Is a lie about something that has nothing to do with Russia that bad? I just wish he and his entire staff had Loernered it.

There is not a chance in Hell Trump fired Comey "for other reasons". That is nonsense, he fired him after he refused to take it easy on Flynn as Trump had requested which was a clear attempt to control the investigation. HIS investigation and that is wrong, period. Any other reason is just an excuse from a guy who lies more than he brushes his teeth. He wanted protection and felt this guy didn't want to play by his rule regarding an investigation into his campaign. And that is incredibly wrong.

Of course he should be able to investigate me if he came across information during the Russian investigation that needs to be followed up on. Highly unlikely obviously but again investigators go where the evidence takes it. This is ALWAYS the case and not unique here. And there is nothing wrong with that what so ever. Keep in mind Ken Starr was hired to investigate Whitewater. Clinton was impeached for lying about an affair that was discovered during that affair. Why the hell was Starr even looking into that affair? That wasn't close to a crime and a Hell of a lot more inconsequential than what Mueller is looking at. Now THAT can be considered a which hunt out to get his target. If Mueller is finding actually crimes, and multiple indictments and guilty pleas clearly show he is finding them, then what's wrong with an investigator investigating other crimes discovered during an investigation? Again it happens all the time. When investigators find crimes they pursue them, why would you want it any other way regardless of the target? You actually want our law enforcement to overlook felonies and just ignore the evidence and let offenders off the hook? Why on Earth would you want that?

When you say Russian collusion is not a crime you come off dismissing it as no big deal. Well I assure you it's a huge deal to even think that a campaign may have enlisted the help of a hostile foreign government to influence our election. . Considering Trump has financial interests in Russia the potentially issues here are terrifying.

As for Hillary and the dossier I'm not sure that's even close to the same thing. Hiring a former British intelligence officer to look into Trump/Russia connections is not exactly the same as the possibility of Trump's clan making back room deals with Russia, again the possibility of that happening and what it means is terrifying.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

How's that Drain the Swamp thingy going? If nothing else is discovered, which ain't gonna happen, Trump will go down in history as having the most corrupt administration ever. This will be his legacy. How many indictments and guilty pleas? I've honestly lost count. This is not how it's supposed to work guys, especially from a guy who promised to rid Washington of corruption.


Drain the Swamp my ass, he brought in a swamp. And as always his supporters refuse to acknowledge this.

 

[j_y19]

Once more, Farkin' Republicans huh?

See, this is the type of response I don't get. What difference does it make what political party they are affiliated with? Shouldn't the goal be to identify all of the nefarious wrong doers in our system that are stealing from you and I?

It's comments like this, on both sides, that lend credence to the belief of many that this is all politically motivated. We aren't really concerned with eliminating corruption in entirety, only on the side that I don't affiliate with.

 

[j_y19]

CNN Airs Secret Cohen-Trump Tape Discussing Payment to ...
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/michael-cohen-tape-karen...

Did you listen to the tape? I have very little doubt that Trump was aware of and instructed payments to be made. However, this tape proves nothing. It would never hold up in court and and prosecutor worth their salt would never even try to use it.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah I agree there is nothing on that tape that would result in anything serious against Trump. But again he has claimed he knew nothing of the payments, that tape proves (as if we needed any more proof) that he lies constantly and nothing he claims can be believed. And that is a huge problem moving forward with regard to all the other issues. Why on Earth should we believe him when he says there was no collusion when he said he knew nothing of the payments and has lied throughout this entire investigation?

His son met with Russians, in a building with his name on it. To discuss obtaining dirt on Hillary to help his campaign. Help he referenced in a comment during the campaign. And we are supposed to believe he knew nothing of this as he claimed? Come on now, let's use a little common sense.

 

[j_y19]

Yeah I agree there is nothing on that tape that would result in anything serious against Trump. But again he has claimed he knew nothing of the payments, that tape proves (as if we needed any more proof) that he lies constantly and nothing he claims can be believed. And that is a huge problem. Yet his supporters still believe what he says despite overwhelming evidence that he simply does not tell the truth

They follow him blindly and never seem able to criticize him. Ever. And that's why they are referred to as a cult as this is classic cult behavior.

I agree. But this cult behavior is not limited to Trump supporters. As long as we let these politicians and media outlets divide us by party first, the country as a whole suffers. I am sick of it. We need to identify and eliminate it no matter what side of the aisle it appears. When did party become more important than country?

We, as citizens, need to stop supporting these politicians whose only goal is to get re-elected and remain in power. Our government was never intended to be run by career politicians. Term limits are the first step to this.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I agree. But this cult behavior is not limited to Trump supporters. As long as we let these politicians and media outlets divide us by party first, the country as a whole suffers. I am sick of it. We need to identify and eliminate it no matter what side of the aisle it appears. When did party become more important than country?

We, as citizens, need to stop supporting these politicians whose only goal is to get re-elected and remain in power. Our government was never intended to be run by career politicians. Term limits are the first step to this.

Dang you quoted me before I had the chance to go back and soften that post. While I still believe his followers behave like a cult I didn't want to turn this into an insult contest.

I would like to point out Obama supporters such as myself were still able to be critical. I have also been very critical of Hillary, called her the worst candidate I've ever voted for. The rank and file Democrats do not have a problem doing this, the Trump supporters are simply unable to be critical. Ever. So I see a big difference in behavior.

 

[j_y19]

Dang you quoted me before I had the chance to go back and soften that post. While I still believe his followers behave like a cult I didn't want to turn this into an insult contest.

I would like to point out Obama supporters such as myself were still able to be critical. I have also been very critical of Hillary, called her the worst candidate I've ever voted for. The rank and file Democrats do not have a problem doing this, the Trump supporters are simply unable to be critical. Ever. So I see a big difference in behavior.

Here's the real rub. I believe there is a huge swath of people like me (and I believe you and many more on here) that reside somewhere toward the middle. We may have leanings left or right, but are mostly moderate and believe that there has to be give and take to move forward. Unfortunately, we no longer have candidates that represent us. That's because the big money comes from the extremes. On both sides. We have allowed this culture to develop that the only win is one where you ruin the other side of the aisle. This has got to change. The first step is to stop labeling everyone that has different views than you as a racist, or socialist, or whatever label applies to minimize their viewpoints (maybe even cultist?). Once one is labelled as such, the discussion turns away from common solutions to our ills and toward defense of one's character. That never results in policy that moves us forward.

Oh, and the press has completely abdicated their critical responsibility in ensuring open government. They, too, have become political pawns that skew their reporting to garner support for their political leanings.

 

[gkekoa]

He's a republican, you try to make some sense out of the way they think!

Just because you are registered as something, does it actually make you that?

Money and power doesn’t care about affiliation.

 

[gkekoa]

So, you're that one person who never changes his mind on anything. Just joking man, but honestly, isn't it possible to change one's mind on a particular subject and it not be a lie?

Of course not.

Do you actually believe he changed his mind or was it more of a “I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.” BTW, I know what he meant in this quote, and I agree with him.

Now, here is a blatant lie for you. “We have no information to suggest that it was a preplanned attack. The unrest we’ve seen around the region has been in reaction to a video that Muslims, many Muslims find offensive. And while the violence is reprehensible and unjustified, it is not a reaction to the 9/11 anniversary that we know of, or to U.S. policy.” Or is that lie OK?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Here's the real rub. I believe there is a huge swath of people like me (and I believe you and many more on here) that reside somewhere toward the middle. We may have leanings left or right, but are mostly moderate and believe that there has to be give and take to move forward. Unfortunately, we no longer have candidates that represent us. That's because the big money comes from the extremes. On both sides. We have allowed this culture to develop that the only win is one where you ruin the other side of the aisle. This has got to change. The first step is to stop labeling everyone that has different views than you as a racist, or socialist, or whatever label applies to minimize their viewpoints (maybe even cultist?). Once one is labelled as such, the discussion turns away from common solutions to our ills and toward defense of one's character. That never results in policy that moves us forward.

Oh, and the press has completely abdicated their critical responsibility in ensuring open government. They, too, have become political pawns that skew their reporting to garner support for their political leanings.

Agreed. I am a moderate on virtually every other issue. The last election my choices were Bernie (too far left), Hillary (crooked, complete unlikable bitch) and Donald Trump (a lying, petulant child holding a job that calls for an adult).

That sucked.

 

[gkekoa]

There is not a chance in Hell Trump fired Comey "for other reasons". That is nonsense, he fired him after he refused to take it easy on Flynn as Trump had requested which was a clear attempt to control the investigation. HIS investigation and that is wrong, period. Any other reason is just an excuse from a guy who lies more than he brushes his teeth. He wanted protection and felt this guy didn't want to play by his rule regarding an investigation into his campaign. And that is incredibly wrong.

Of course he should be able to investigate me if he came across information during the Russian investigation that needs to be followed up on. Highly unlikely obviously but again investigators go where the evidence takes it. This is ALWAYS the case and not unique here. And there is nothing wrong with that what so ever. Keep in mind Ken Starr was hired to investigate Whitewater. Clinton was impeached for lying about an affair that was discovered during that affair. Why the hell was Starr even looking into that affair? That wasn't close to a crime and a Hell of a lot more inconsequential than what Mueller is looking at. Now THAT can be considered a which hunt out to get his target. If Mueller is finding actually crimes, and multiple indictments and guilty pleas clearly show he is finding them, then what's wrong with an investigator investigating other crimes discovered during an investigation? Again it happens all the time. When investigators find crimes they pursue them, why would you want it any other way regardless of the target? You actually want our law enforcement to overlook felonies and just ignore the evidence and let offenders off the hook? Why on Earth would you want that?

When you say Russian collusion is not a crime you come off dismissing it as no big deal. Well I assure you it's a huge deal to even think that a campaign may have enlisted the help of a hostile foreign government to influence our election. . Considering Trump has financial interests in Russia the potentially issues here are terrifying.

As for Hillary and the dossier I'm not sure that's even close to the same thing. Hiring a former British intelligence officer to look into Trump/Russia connections is not exactly the same as the possibility of Trump's clan making back room deals with Russia, again the possibility of that happening and what it means is terrifying.

No chance?

Just suppose the following is true, “The official White House statement on May 9 said Trump “acted based on the clear recommendations” of the attorney general and deputy attorney general.“. Would that be reason to fire him?

According to Trump, ““FBI has been in turmoil,” and a White House spokeswoman said “the rank and file of the FBI had lost confidence” in Comey.” This was his actual reason for firing Comey. Would that be an actual reason to fire the head of the FBI?

So you believe a person should be investigated without evidence of a crime? As a black man who believes the justice system is rigged against you, that doesn’t seem to be the smartest stance. Or do you believe it only because it hurts somebody else? If an investigator can investigate you for any reason, then the reason doesn’t have to be true. If you dig hard enough into any person’s life, you can find a crime or at least enough dirt to destroy their life.

Why is it so bad to get dirt on Hillary from Russia but it is OK to get it from Fusion GPS? Either getting dirt is good or it is bad...if you believe getting dirt is OK, I simply ask it be true.

So you are afraid of backroom deals? Does the POTUS have the ability to unilaterally make any deal really? So what are you actually afraid of? So it is OK for the POTUS to make back room deals after the election but not before? Do you not see the hypocrisy?

Where did Steele get his information? The Russians.

 

[gkekoa]

Yeah I agree there is nothing on that tape that would result in anything serious against Trump. But again he has claimed he knew nothing of the payments, that tape proves (as if we needed any more proof) that he lies constantly and nothing he claims can be believed. And that is a huge problem moving forward with regard to all the other issues. Why on Earth should we believe him when he says there was no collusion when he said he knew nothing of the payments and has lied throughout this entire investigation?

His son met with Russians, in a building with his name on it. To discuss obtaining dirt on Hillary to help his campaign. Help he referenced in a comment during the campaign. And we are supposed to believe he knew nothing of this as he claimed? Come on now, let's use a little common sense.

Would you lie over something as inconsequential as payments to a whore when it is literally nobody’s business?

Again, why is it such a deal that his son got dirt from the Russians?

You claim to be anti-lying. There is actual proof that Obama lied to the American people about Benghazi, very consequential considering four Americans died. You overlook it with no outrage. But, if Trump is lying and you assume he is with no real proof, you are outraged.

It is funny...you assume to know what I believe but have never asked. I am the most open book person on these forums.

 

[j_y19]

Agreed. I am a moderate on virtually every other issue. The last election my choices were Bernie (too far left), Hillary (crooked, complete unlikable bitch) and Donald Trump (a lying, petulant child holding a job that calls for an adult).

That sucked.

Couldn't agree more. So shouldn't the discussion that we should be having first is how we change the dynamic towards fostering honest, qualified, centrist candidates to run for office? I mentioned term limits earlier. I have come to the belief, as I said, that this is a first step toward really "draining the swamp". I will no longer support ANY candidate that is not willing to support a bill towards implementing some sort of term limits on congress. That will now be the first question I ask of any national candidate that is looking for my support. I recognize that the devil is in the details, but if they hem and haw on that support, then I move on.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

No chance?

Just suppose the following is true, “The official White House statement on May 9 said Trump “acted based on the clear recommendations” of the attorney general and deputy attorney general.“. Would that be reason to fire him?

According to Trump, ““FBI has been in turmoil,” and a White House spokeswoman said “the rank and file of the FBI had lost confidence” in Comey.” This was his actual reason for firing Comey. Would that be an actual reason to fire the head of the FBI?

So you believe a person should be investigated without evidence of a crime? As a black man who believes the justice system is rigged against you, that doesn’t seem to be the smartest stance. Or do you believe it only because it hurts somebody else? If an investigator can investigate you for any reason, then the reason doesn’t have to be true. If you dig hard enough into any person’s life, you can find a crime or at least enough dirt to destroy their life.

Why is it so bad to get dirt on Hillary from Russia but it is OK to get it from Fusion GPS? Either getting dirt is good or it is bad...if you believe getting dirt is OK, I simply ask it be true.

So you are afraid of backroom deals? Does the POTUS have the ability to unilaterally make any deal really? So what are you actually afraid of? So it is OK for the POTUS to make back room deals after the election but not before? Do you not see the hypocrisy?

Where did Steele get his information? The Russians.

I should never say "no chance" because nothing is absolute. However it's pretty clear to most why he did this. I'd also like to point out that the Attorney General at the time was Jeff Sessions, man who was so biased against the investigation that he had no choice but to recuse himself. So yeah that recommendation only supports my claim that it was motivated by Comey's refusal to compromise his position and play by Trump's rules. By the way what happened to Sessions again? Oh yeah, he was fired by Trump for recusing himself instead of staying involved and offering the President more protection. Yet more evidence that President Trump is trying to influence this investigation instead of just allowing it to play out. Every move he has made throughout simply does not look like the actions of a man with nothing to hide.

I never said people should be investigated without evidence of a crime. I simply said an investigation goes where the evidence takes it, even if it's off the original target. And again multiple indictments and guilty please from those investigated gives a clear indication that they had in fact committed crimes, further proof the detour was justified.

Trump claimed the reason was turmoil in the FBI and a lack of confidence. He also said he knew nothing of the Daniels payment and countless other lies. I'll leave it that.

I agree if Hillary was doing the same she should be held accountable as well.

As for backroom deals it's one thing to do that while negotiating a trade deal, quite another to be doing it with a hostile foreign government to influence our election.

 

[Sharkinva]

See, this is the type of response I don't get. What difference does it make what political party they are affiliated with? Shouldn't the goal be to identify all of the nefarious wrong doers in our system that are stealing from you and I?

It's comments like this, on both sides, that lend credence to the belief of many that this is all politically motivated. We aren't really concerned with eliminating corruption in entirety, only on the side that I don't affiliate with.

Muellers true political leanings are pointed out because the great orange cheeto on the daily makes a point of telling any and everyone how bad democrats are and how they will feed your babies to MS-13. And he calls Mueller a democrat knowing that both allegations are untrue.

IM actually shocked none of his more rabid cult members have tried to assassinate Robert Mueller yet.

 

[j_y19]

Muellers true political leanings are pointed out because the great orange cheeto on the daily makes a point of telling any and everyone how bad democrats are and how they will feed your babies to MS-13. And he calls Mueller a democrat knowing that both allegations are untrue.

IM actually shocked none of his more rabid cult members have tried to assassinate Robert Mueller yet.

So why take the bait? That is why he throws that shit out there. Its called deflection. He changes the argument and pits us against one another so that the focus turns away from his dealings. Oh, and its not just him, the Republicans don't own the franchise for doing this. I can point out numerous examples of politicians on the other side doing the exact same thing on other hot issues. Let's not act like one one sides shit stinks. This is the point I'm trying to make. We need to stop complaining about the weeds in our neighbor's yard when our yard is stock full of weeds.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Couldn't agree more. So shouldn't the discussion that we should be having first is how we change the dynamic towards fostering honest, qualified, centrist candidates to run for office? I mentioned term limits earlier. I have come to the belief, as I said, that this is a first step toward really "draining the swamp". I will no longer support ANY candidate that is not willing to support a bill towards implementing some sort of term limits on congress. That will now be the first question I ask of any national candidate that is looking for my support. I recognize that the devil is in the details, but if they hem and haw on that support, then I move on.

I'm on the fence about term limits. While I see your point there have been a whole lot of really good people in Congress who are not as corrupt as Trump's gangsters, they have done a great job for decades on both sides of the aisle.