politics thread

[skinsdad62]

A Chinese-owned company operating in the Washington, D.C., area hacked Hillary Clinton’s private server throughout her term as secretary of state and obtained nearly all her emails, two sources briefed on the matter told The Daily Caller News Foundation.

I wonder how much damage that did ? I wonder what kind of blackmail that could have caused if she actually won ?

Let’s chase fake collusion instead

 

[Stymietee]

i will go with my personal experience here

Fake News!

 

[Stymietee]

a lot of people agree with me

So? More agree with me!

 

[gkekoa]

Well, since you're going to keep searching for a silver lining in this fact based debate:

After the Revolutionary War government revenues had to be collected through tariffs and duties on certain items. These excise taxes were on liquor, tobacco, sugar, legal documents and so on.

The first challenge to the system came in 1794, when the Whiskey Rebellion broke out. It was basically groups of Pennsylvanian farmers angry about the tax on whiskey. Defending the right to collect their indirect taxes, Congress put down the revolt by military force.

1790s, a war with France led to a property tax. The implementation of this tax was far from perfect, so the later war of 1812 was funded by higher duties and excise taxes. It would take a Civil War to bring income tax into the country.

The American Civil War was disastrous and expensive for the nation in that massive amounts of debt were incurred waging war against itself. In order to help pay for the war, the Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1861. The tax was levied on incomes exceeding $800 and was not rescinded until 1872. This act created most of what we consider the modern tax system.

NOW here's what you're talking about:

The Constitution forbade any direct taxes that were not levied in proportion to each state's population. The Supreme Court declared a flat tax contained in the 1894 Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act unconstitutional in 1895. Although a victory for taxpayers, many people were beginning to note the damage that revenue-collecting tariffs and duties were having both on world trade and the living standards of the poor.

So the 16th Amendment was introduced in 1913 to pave the way to an income tax by removing the proportional to population clause, It was quickly followed by an income tax on people with an annual income of over $3,000. This tax touched less than 1% of Americans. Interestingly, the phrase "lawful income" was later changed to simply "income" in 1916.

So as you can see we've always had taxes, and again, before the formation of the socialist based Police, Fire and Military.

When did I ever say taxes did not exist prior to 1913?

Again...I ask you...

1- Would we have a military if there was no taxation?

2- Would we have a police force if there was no taxation?

3- Would we have fire departments if there were no taxation?

Now, would we have welfare, Medicaid, foreign aid to 90%of the countries on the planet, and hundreds of thousands of dollars, combining to equal millions, going toward silly things such as the mating habits of cockroaches?

You see, there is a huge difference between what is required and socialism.

 

[Stymietee]

When did I ever say taxes did not exist prior to 1913?

Again...I ask you...

1- Would we have a military if there was no taxation?

2- Would we have a police force if there was no taxation?

3- Would we have fire departments if there were no taxation?

Now, would we have welfare, Medicaid, foreign aid to 90%of the countries on the planet, and hundreds of thousands of dollars, combining to equal millions, going toward silly things such as the mating habits of cockroaches?

You see, there is a huge difference between what is required and socialism.

Did you not say this? I highlighted the best part.

They were created before there were taxes.

I have always said subsidies are bad. I understand them but they help choose winners and losers.

Corporate welfare and tax cuts are not the same thing. Tax cuts make sense to make us competitive worldwide.

Let's not lose sight of where we are in this conversation, Police, Fire and Military are Socialist centered entities.

Wanna talk about Corporate welfare now?

 

[gkekoa]

Did you not say this? I highlighted the best part.



Let's not lose sight of where we are in this conversation, Police, Fire and Military are Socialist centered entities.

Wanna talk about Corporate welfare now?

Oh...I did. I also noted that some taxes were taken before in extreme circumstances. If you remember the context of what you highlighted, I was referring to a standard federal income tax levied by Congress.

So...you didn’t like my questions or should we all assume you see the difference? Going by your definition of socialism, unless we are all taxed equally, then everything regarding taxation is socialist. You are an intelligent man, and I believe you are smart enough to understand, when people talk about socialism, they are referring to taking from one group for the benefit of another. There was a police force, fire and military prior to a standard tax. Also, when referring to taxation, we should probably start using federal, state, and local taxes. I have far less issue with taxation done smallest level of government because the smaller the government, the more say we have.

Sure...we can talk corporate welfare.

 

[Stymietee]

i will go with my personal experience here

I'm willing to bet that there are few here who will benefit from the tax cut more than me, but this misses the point, and asks the rhetorical question...Does individual profit at the expense of the masses, benefit the country?

Answer, it does not because trickle down has not, nor ever will work. (I've already proven this in this thread)

 

[Stymietee]

Oh...I did. I also noted that some taxes were taken before in extreme circumstances. If you remember the context of what you highlighted, I was referring to a standard federal income tax levied by Congress.

So...you didn’t like my questions or should we all assume you see the difference? Going by your definition of socialism, unless we are all taxed equally, then everything regarding taxation is socialist. You are an intelligent man, and I believe you are smart enough to understand, when people talk about socialism, they are referring to taking from one group for the benefit of another. There was a police force, fire and military prior to a standard tax. Also, when referring to taxation, we should probably start using federal, state, and local taxes. I have far less issue with taxation done smallest level of government because the smaller the government, the more say we have.

Sure...we can talk corporate welfare.

Taking from one group in order to benefit another is NOT socialism. I get this all of the time from people who are either confused by definition/ practice or who have been deliberately misled for political advantage.

To be clear, this is what we are currently doing with our Police, Fire and Military among others: (Infrastructural Socialism)


so·cial·ism
[ˈsōSHəˌlizəm]
NOUN

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   synonyms: leftism · Fabianism · syndicalism · consumer socialism · utopian socialism · welfarism · communism · Bolshevism · radicalism · militancy · progressivism · social democracy ·
   leftism · Fabianism · syndicalism · consumer socialism · utopian socialism · welfarism · communism · Bolshevism · radicalism · militancy · progressivism · social democracy.

...And this is what you're describing

com·mu·nism
[ˈkämyəˌnizəm]
NOUN

1. a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.See also Marxism.
   synonyms: collectivism · state ownership · socialism · radical socialism · Sovietism · Bolshevism · Marxism · neo-Marxism · Leninism · Marxism–Leninism · Trotskyism · Maoism

col·lec·tiv·ism
[kəˈlektəˌvizəm]
NOUN

1. the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it.
   "the Church has criticized the great emphasis placed on individualism rather than collectivism"
   synonyms: collectivism · state ownership · socialism · radical socialism · Sovietism · Bolshevism · Marxism · neo-Marxism · Leninism · Marxism–Leninism · Trotskyism · Maoism
   • the theory and practice of the ownership of land and the means of production by the people or the state.
     "the Russian Revolution decided to alter the course of modernity towards collectivism"

 

[Stymietee]

Sure...we can talk corporate welfare.

Do you STILL hold onto the notion that tax cuts to corporations is not corporate welfare?

 

[skinsdad62]

So? More agree with me!

i dont think so

 

[Stymietee]

i dont think so

Literally, by the millions they agree with me. People tend to agree with facts and not a position based upon "I'll go with my personal experience here."

Here's an example: My (Sty) personal experience informs me that left handers are ambidextrous in truth less than 1% are. You just can't assume that your personal experiences are shared by the masses or outcomes of the same are exactly the same as yours.

 

[skinsdad62]

Literally, by the millions they agree with me. People tend to agree with facts and not a position based upon "I'll go with my personal experience here."

Here's an example: My (Sty) personal experience informs me that left handers are ambidextrous in truth less than 1% are. You just can't assume that your personal experiences are shared by the masses or outcomes of the same are exactly the same as yours.

literraly millions agre with me

 

[skinsdad62]

Literally, by the millions they agree with me. People tend to agree with facts and not a position based upon "I'll go with my personal experience here."

Here's an example: My (Sty) personal experience informs me that left handers are ambidextrous in truth less than 1% are. You just can't assume that your personal experiences are shared by the masses or outcomes of the same are exactly the same as yours.

i can and i will

 

[Stymietee]

literraly millions agre with me

If you say so!

 

[Stymietee]

i can and i will

No problem!

 

[skinsdad62]

Today we learned that the FBI (under former Attorney General Holder) leaked information to the press using the “anonymous source” ruse, then turned around and used the media articles to convince judges to issue surveillance warrants.



That's a crime.

And remember back in the RG3 days when I said you should question anonymous sources ? Exhibit A as to why

 

[skinsdad62]

Fresh off his victory in the Florida Republican gubernatorial primary, Rep. Ron DeSantis says voters would "monkey this up" if they elected his African-American opponent, Andrew Gillum, to be governor because of his "socialist agenda. This is what CNN reported .

Actual quote: "Let's build off the success we've had on Gov. Scott. The last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work." This is why people hate CNN,

 

[gkekoa]

I'm willing to bet that there are few here who will benefit from the tax cut more than me, but this misses the point, and asks the rhetorical question...Does individual profit at the expense of the masses, benefit the country?

Answer, it does not because trickle down has not, nor ever will work. (I've already proven this in this thread)

Well...we know taking from one who has earned it, to give to those who have not leads to catastrophe.

 

[gkekoa]

Taking from one group in order to benefit another is NOT socialism. I get this all of the time from people who are either confused by definition/ practice or who have been deliberately misled for political advantage.

To be clear, this is what we are currently doing with our Police, Fire and Military among others: (Infrastructural Socialism)


so·cial·ism
[ˈsōSHəˌlizəm]
NOUN

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
   synonyms: leftism · Fabianism · syndicalism · consumer socialism · utopian socialism · welfarism · communism · Bolshevism · radicalism · militancy · progressivism · social democracy ·
   leftism · Fabianism · syndicalism · consumer socialism · utopian socialism · welfarism · communism · Bolshevism · radicalism · militancy · progressivism · social democracy.

...And this is what you're describing

com·mu·nism
[ˈkämyəˌnizəm]
NOUN

1. a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.See also Marxism.
   synonyms: collectivism · state ownership · socialism · radical socialism · Sovietism · Bolshevism · Marxism · neo-Marxism · Leninism · Marxism–Leninism · Trotskyism · Maoism

col·lec·tiv·ism
[kəˈlektəˌvizəm]
NOUN

1. the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it.
   "the Church has criticized the great emphasis placed on individualism rather than collectivism"
   synonyms: collectivism · state ownership · socialism · radical socialism · Sovietism · Bolshevism · Marxism · neo-Marxism · Leninism · Marxism–Leninism · Trotskyism · Maoism
   • the theory and practice of the ownership of land and the means of production by the people or the state.
     "the Russian Revolution decided to alter the course of modernity towards collectivism"

Socialism, communism, and collectivism are all the same basic thing. Do you actually believe the community has control over the military?

The idea that taking from one and giving to another is engrained in socialism. The idea that the community has control over anything, when some members have contributed nothing, is the very idea of socialism as we are speaking. In terms of welfare, we are talking monetary control...that is why socialism gets credit for welfare.

 

[gkekoa]

Do you STILL hold onto the notion that tax cuts to corporations is not corporate welfare?

Absolutely. Is taxation of an individual welfare? No...it is taxation.