Kawhi wants out of San Antonio

[flyerhawk]

Well no shit they overachieved this year in the playoffs. They didn't have their two best players and had others dinged up throughout.

As for Golden St, re-read what you said. "Maybe they will be in 2 years". That's the point Gman and I are talking about. 2 years isn't THAT long of a time. Boston has the pieces to be there in that timeframe right now. If they give up a bunch for Kawhi and both he and Kyrie leave next summer, they've set themselves back in a major way. Even if GS is as unbeatable as you think, they're still there within two years if they just make a conservative offer. That's why its important for them to either A) get a guarantee from one of those players or B) Make as small an offer as possible. Boston is close. Way closer than you're giving them credit for. Given their circumstances, you just can't recklessly swing for the fences because you think GS is unstoppable and have to match them move for move. Superman has kryptonite. So do superteams.

I think Lance was talking about next year. Things could be very different in 2 years. Maybe Tatum turns into an elite player. Or Brown. But right now this team is not close to being able to beat the Warriors in the finals. Or the Rockets.

Great teams lose to great players 99% of the time. Boston needs that elite player before they can compete with teams like the Warriors or whatever team Lebron is on.

 

[flyerhawk]

The only thing that this proves is that genius is rarely appreciated in its time.

---------

On serious note, you may be embarrassingly wrong... because @msgkings322 scored a bunch of my posts "Winner" back there.

That would be 3... and, as we all know, 3 is a crowd.

LOL. I would like to here what he has to say about the matter.

To be clear, I'm not slagging the Celtics. They have a very good team. And fully healthy they could be a team that could make it to the WCF. But it would take a LOT of things to go right for them to go beyond that.

 

[wildturkey]

I think Lance was talking about next year. Things could be very different in 2 years. Maybe Tatum turns into an elite player. Or Brown. But right now this team is not close to being able to beat the Warriors in the finals. Or the Rockets.

Great teams lose to great players 99% of the time. Boston needs that elite player before they can compete with teams like the Warriors or whatever team Lebron is on.

Kyrie is elite though. He's one of the top PGs in the league. Hayward is an all star. And whatever other deficiencies they have are made up for by Brad Stevens. GS would be favored, but its not a runaway. And at it takes is one injury or Draymond ejection and things can go differently.

 

[flyerhawk]

Kyrie is elite though. He's one of the top PGs in the league. Hayward is an all star. And whatever other deficiencies they have are made up for by Brad Stevens. GS would be favored, but its not a runaway. And at it takes is one injury or Draymond ejection and things can go differently.

Kyrie is not elite. He's very good. Probably the 4th or 5th best PG in the game.

Hayward made one all-star team in his career.

Of course injuries change everything.

 

[The Q]

Well no shit they overachieved this year in the playoffs. They didn't have their two best players and had others dinged up throughout.

As for Golden St, re-read what you said. "Maybe they will be in 2 years". That's the point Gman and I are talking about. 2 years isn't THAT long of a time. Boston has the pieces to be there in that timeframe right now. If they give up a bunch for Kawhi and both he and Kyrie leave next summer, they've set themselves back in a major way. Even if GS is as unbeatable as you think, they're still there within two years if they just make a conservative offer. That's why its important for them to either A) get a guarantee from one of those players or B) Make as small an offer as possible. Boston is close. Way closer than you're giving them credit for. Given their circumstances, you just can't recklessly swing for the fences because you think GS is unstoppable and have to match them move for move. Superman has kryptonite. So do superteams.

The other thing is if Durant or curry were to get hurt like Paul did or how the Cavs did in 2015.

 

[Wamu]

Kyrie is not elite. He's very good. Probably the 4th or 5th best PG in the game.

Hayward made one all-star team in his career.

Of course injuries change everything.

Injuries are always a bummer. Too bad the injury bug got the Celtics. Maybe healthy they go to the Finals instead of the Cavs? Still think G.S. would have won anyway though.

 

[flyerhawk]

Injuries are always a bummer. Too bad the injury bug got the Celtics. Maybe healthy they go to the Finals instead of the Cavs? Still think G.S. would have won anyway though.

Yup. A healthy Celtics would have beaten the Cavs, IMO. And then lost in 5 to the Warriors.

 

[Wamu]

Yup. A healthy Celtics would have beaten the Cavs, IMO. And then lost in 5 to the Warriors.

I would like to think the Celtics would have won in 7 on a last second Kyrie 3. Hey if I'm gonna leave an overly homeristic comment gotta go all in.

 

[wildturkey]

Kyrie is not elite. He's very good. Probably the 4th or 5th best PG in the game.

Hayward made one all-star team in his career.

Of course injuries change everything.

Even if you don't think Irving is elite, he's close enough. You don't need a singular elite player to win a championship. Detroit won with a collection of talent. Boston in the late 00s didn't have elite players either. KG was past his elite prime. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce weren't any better then than Kyrie is now.

Just because Hayward only made 1 doesn't mean he's not all star caliber. He played in the West with a lot of other people competing for that spot and he played in Utah, which gets hardly any love at all. Hell, it was like March before half the fans realized who Donovan Mitchell was.

 

[Mecca]

@broncosmitty wants out of Detroit, so whats the big deal?

No big deal to me.

He can go wherever he wants when his contract is up.

 

[Wamu]

When Kawhi gets shipped outta San Antonio will he pull an Ozzy Osbourne & piss on the Alamo before leaving?

 

[Gman]

Even if you don't think Irving is elite, he's close enough. You don't need a singular elite player to win a championship. Detroit won with a collection of talent. Boston in the late 00s didn't have elite players either. KG was past his elite prime. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce weren't any better then than Kyrie is now.

Just because Hayward only made 1 doesn't mean he's not all star caliber. He played in the West with a lot of other people competing for that spot and he played in Utah, which gets hardly any love at all. Hell, it was like March before half the fans realized who Donovan Mitchell was.

Looking at the C's potential starting 5... which is again:

• Kyrie Irving
• Jaylen Brown
• Gordon Hayward
• Jayson Tatum
• Al Horford

^ All 5 are triple threat options... no weak link. With a maesto in charge (Stevens) there is a symphony to be made with this group... whether any of them are technically classified as "elite" or not.

Additionally, there are elite defensive options up and down the roster... Brown, Horford, Smart, Ojeleye... alongside good defensive options that are interchangeable... Hayward, Tatum, Morris, Theis...

Tough not to get excited. I see a challenger to GS.

 

[Wamu]

Looking at the C's potential starting 5... which is again:

• Kyrie Irving
• Jaylen Brown
• Gordon Hayward
• Jayson Tatum
• Al Horford

^ All 5 are triple threat options... no weak link. With a maesto in charge (Stevens) there is a a symphony to be made with this group... whether any of them are technically classified as "elite" or not.

Additionally, there are elite defensive options up and down the roster... Brown, Horford, Smart, Ojeleye... alongside good defensive options that are interchangeable... Hayward, Tatum, Morris, Theis...

Tough not to get excited. I see a challenger to GS.

The future is looking good for the Celtics.

 

[tlance]

Well no shit they overachieved this year in the playoffs. They didn't have their two best players and had others dinged up throughout.

As for Golden St, re-read what you said. "Maybe they will be in 2 years". That's the point Gman and I are talking about. 2 years isn't THAT long of a time. Boston has the pieces to be there in that timeframe right now. If they give up a bunch for Kawhi and both he and Kyrie leave next summer, they've set themselves back in a major way. Even if GS is as unbeatable as you think, they're still there within two years if they just make a conservative offer. That's why its important for them to either A) get a guarantee from one of those players or B) Make as small an offer as possible. Boston is close. Way closer than you're giving them credit for. Given their circumstances, you just can't recklessly swing for the fences because you think GS is unstoppable and have to match them move for move. Superman has kryptonite. So do superteams.

Not just GS.

The super team trend is real. If GS falls in 2 years (if), there will be another superteam ready to take over. That could very well be Boston. But not with this roster. I will bet you that they don't win a title unless they make some type of move to acquire a superstar. Maybe it is Kawhi, maybe LeBron, maybe Anthony Davis in a couple years.

And I am not talking about making reckless moves. Any trade for Kawhi would only be a good idea if:

A) he is healthy
B) he expresses willingness to consider resigning after this year

 

[flyerhawk]

Even if you don't think Irving is elite, he's close enough. You don't need a singular elite player to win a championship. Detroit won with a collection of talent. Boston in the late 00s didn't have elite players either. KG was past his elite prime. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce weren't any better then than Kyrie is now.

Just because Hayward only made 1 doesn't mean he's not all star caliber. He played in the West with a lot of other people competing for that spot and he played in Utah, which gets hardly any love at all. Hell, it was like March before half the fans realized who Donovan Mitchell was.

Kevin Garnett was 1st team All-NBA and DPOY of the year when they won their championship. Paul Pierce was All-NBA that year as well.

Kyrie has made one All-NBA team in his career so far. He's a surefire All-Star level player. He isn't elite.

The Pistons are the go to example whenever someone wants to point to a team without an elite player that won the championship. And there is a reason for that. Because they are the ONLY example in the last 40 years, if not longer, of a team that won a championship without a player that has won an MVP.

 

[Mecca]

@TheKlaw

Vecsey has been relegated to clown car status.

But, have you seen this reported elsewhere?

Real Estate can be sold.

But, if he goes back after all this back and forth nonsense....

I will be convinced he is indeed a simpleton being led around by the nose.

Peter Vecsey: Combined with the incontrovertible fact that Kawhi’s placid personality is a perfect fit in San Antonio and torturously unfit to cope with the media madness of Los Angeles and New York — even Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago and Miami —I’m convinced a reconciliation is imminent. " The fact Kawhi is building a home in San Antonio for himself, and one, I’m told, for his mother, somewhat bolsters that conclusion … though athletes’ custom-made residences certainly don’t guarantee an iota of permanency.

Peter Vecsey: In a cell conversation yesterday with Kawhi’s fringe friend (see above car quote), my first words were ones I’ve often promoted: “You know, I’m only as good as my source. What can you tell me?” Enough so that I’m thoroughly disinclined to believe Kawhi and Pop can’t patch things up, predominantly because their relationship isn’t in need of a large patch. From what I’m told, they’ve never exchanged harsh words or gone off on each other. A single problem existed last season that would not go away: Kawhi’s caregivers and doctors felt his repaired quad wasn’t entirely healthy when he returned 28 games into the season. After nine, some very effective, minute-monitored games, they insisted he return to rehab.

 

[flyerhawk]

Looking at the C's potential starting 5... which is again:

• Kyrie Irving
• Jaylen Brown
• Gordon Hayward
• Jayson Tatum
• Al Horford

^ All 5 are triple threat options... no weak link. With a maesto in charge (Stevens) there is a symphony to be made with this group... whether any of them are technically classified as "elite" or not.

Additionally, there are elite defensive options up and down the roster... Brown, Horford, Smart, Ojeleye... alongside good defensive options that are interchangeable... Hayward, Tatum, Morris, Theis...

Tough not to get excited. I see a challenger to GS.

The Celtics have a really good team. Could very well dominate the East for the next few years, if the Sixers don't. But the team, as constructed isn't winning titles without one of their young players stepping up to an MVP level or bringing one in.

You don't win by having a group of really good players. You win by having a team with at least one elite player surrounded by really good players.

 

[tlance]

Even if you don't think Irving is elite, he's close enough. You don't need a singular elite player to win a championship. Detroit won with a collection of talent. Boston in the late 00s didn't have elite players either. KG was past his elite prime. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce weren't any better then than Kyrie is now.

Just because Hayward only made 1 doesn't mean he's not all star caliber. He played in the West with a lot of other people competing for that spot and he played in Utah, which gets hardly any love at all. Hell, it was like March before half the fans realized who Donovan Mitchell was.

Not true.

KG was still elite his first season when the Celtics won. He was 31 when dealt to Boston. His stats declined because he was sharing the load with 2 other stars instead of carrying the TWolves on his back.

Detroit is the only team since 1980 who won a title without a superstar caliber player. Kyrie is very good, but he isn't on that level. I betting that these Celtics aren't going to be the exception to the rule.

 

[flyerhawk]

@TheKlaw

Vecsey has been relegated to clown car status.

But, have you seen this reported elsewhere?

Real Estate can be sold.

But, if he goes back after all this back and forth nonsense....

I will be convinced he is indeed a simpleton being led around by the nose.

Peter Vecsey: Combined with the incontrovertible fact that Kawhi’s placid personality is a perfect fit in San Antonio and torturously unfit to cope with the media madness of Los Angeles and New York — even Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago and Miami —I’m convinced a reconciliation is imminent. " The fact Kawhi is building a home in San Antonio for himself, and one, I’m told, for his mother, somewhat bolsters that conclusion … though athletes’ custom-made residences certainly don’t guarantee an iota of permanency.

Peter Vecsey: In a cell conversation yesterday with Kawhi’s fringe friend (see above car quote), my first words were ones I’ve often promoted: “You know, I’m only as good as my source. What can you tell me?” Enough so that I’m thoroughly disinclined to believe Kawhi and Pop can’t patch things up, predominantly because their relationship isn’t in need of a large patch. From what I’m told, they’ve never exchanged harsh words or gone off on each other. A single problem existed last season that would not go away: Kawhi’s caregivers and doctors felt his repaired quad wasn’t entirely healthy when he returned 28 games into the season. After nine, some very effective, minute-monitored games, they insisted he return to rehab.

I think it is as likely as not that Leonard's camp is trying to push the Spurs to sign him to a Supermax deal and the only way they can do that is if the Spurs feel he is going to walk if he doesn't get one. They need to put immediate pressure on the Spurs because it has to be signed prior to July 1st

 

[flyerhawk]

Detroit is the only team since 1980 who won a title without a superstar caliber player. Kyrie is very good, but he isn't on that level. I betting that these Celtics aren't going to be the exception to the rule.

Danny Ainge isn't willing to make that bet which is why he is interested in Leonard.