When will Lebron pass Jordan?

[flyerhawk]

Pretty introverted...but had bit parts in a couple of movies?

Bit parts? Mantis wasn't a bit part!! Granted he didn't a who lot of talking, or any for that matter.

 

[Mecca]

Bit parts? Mantis wasn't a bit part!! Granted he didn't a who lot of talking, or any for that matter.

 

[DorianRo]

really ever heard of wilt chamberlain? how many 50 points games did jordan have? chamberlain had 118.

just ignore that jordan took more shots, and the sky hook was the most unstoppable ever.

jabbar 3 titles in college, 6 in the nba.....=9.

jordan needed worthy and perkins to carry him at north carolina.

Wilt played in an era of a bunch of 6 foot white guys like Russell. And even after all this Russell only managed to be a career 15ppg. And wilt still won limited titles.

Its hard to compare players when back when in the 50s and 60s to the 80s-present

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

We're both Laker fans.....unlikely to happen.

It's not like he's @Shaqdaddy11 or @True Lakers Fan.

Plus he tried my sub shop.

Is the town drunk trying to trash talk again?

 

[msgkings322]

Wilt played in an era of a bunch of 6 foot white guys like Russell. And even after all this Russell only managed to be a career 15ppg. And wilt still won limited titles.

Its hard to compare players when back when in the 50s and 60s to the 80s-present

Russell was a 6 foot white guy? I was misinformed!

 

[Wamu]

Wilt played in an era of a bunch of 6 foot white guys like Russell.

This is a perfect example of why you should never post in an NBA thread again.

 

[tlance]

even though there were better defensive centers than kareem, like wilt, kareem still had far more impact defensively, than any #2 guard. centers can clog the middle. kareem is the leading scorer in nba history. the sky hook was by far the the most unstoppable shot ever.

Agree totally that centers have more impact on the game defensively.

That does not make Kareem a better defender just because he played center.

Also, I am not sure that Kareem specifically had more defensive impact than Jordan. The '96 Bulls were one of the greatest defensive teams of all time. IMO, the greatest. They had 3 all time great defenders and none did them played center.

If you have a group of dynamic, long, interchangeable perimeter defenders like those Bulls had, you don't need a great rim protector because the other team struggles to move the ball. Jordan and Pippen were the heart and soul of the defense.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

To be clear, not my opinion, not my words.
Just a copy/paste on the topic.


- Lebron got swept in the finals
- Lebron has as many finals losses as Kobe has rings lol
- Lebron lost back to back finals
- Lebron never three peated once, let alone twice in this weak era
- Teams celebrated winning a title on lebron's home court on 3 different occasions. ('07, '11, '15)
- Lebron lost to a Dwight Howard Magic team with no superstars in 6 games
- Lebron been the best player since 2008 according to Lebron fans but he couldn't beat the magic to meet Kobe in the finals
- Lebron is so great and goat that he had to leave his team and jump to another team with two franchise superstar players not role players, superstars.
- Jumped ship joined two superstars and still lost to a team with one superstar and a bunch of role players past their primes lol
- Jason Terry averaged more PPG's in the '11 finals than Lebron, goat lol
- Lebron would've lost the 2013 finals if it wasn't for Ray Allen's shot
- Lebron loses the finals in the following year by a record margin in 5 games lmaooo but he's the goat lol
- Lebron got cramps in San Antonio meanwhile Kobe and Jordan will play till they die basically
- Lebron then jumps ship again since he's the goat and so great he bails on Miami and goes back to Cleveland, like talk about loyalty smh
- Lebron loses in the 2015 finals where he was in position to win when he was up 2-1 with game 4 in Cleveland with Kyrie being hurt he had the chance to cement his goat status by going up 3-1 but couldn't and lost those finals as well.
- 2 years ago if Kyrie doesn't hit the dagger three Golden state wins
- Lebron scored 11 points in the 4th quarter in the first 3 games of this years finals
- Lebron lost in 5 games again lol
- In the biggest stage of them all doesn't matter how many times you made it kids all that matters is if you won it and Lebron's finals record is

2007- L (Swept)
2011- L (Lost in 6 games)
2012- W (Won in 5 games)
2013*- W (Ray Allen's finals winning shot)
2014- L (Lost in 5 games) goat
2015- L (Lost in 6 games)
2016* - W (Kyrie's finals winning shot)
2017- L (Lost in 5 games) goat
- Lebron lost back to back finals
- Lebron almost three peated in the finals with losses

Stop the comparisons with Michael when he's got to catch Kobe first smh. Kids and millennials stats don't tell the whole story in this watered down era of basketball with no physicality, hand checking, true 4 and 5's. Watch you Lebron fans make an excuse for each blunder in his record that I just pointed out lol and never accept the blame lol. So when he's 3-6 after June, provided his team even goes, can you Lebrobtards think of better excuses and blame for failure?

 

[tlance]

And I think he was a better scorer than MJ. He spent most of his career with the Lakers who had Magic, Worthy, Scott, as well as several others who got their fair of shots.

MJ pretty much only had Pippen to share the scoring load with. That's why MJ averaged more ppg over his career. And it was just 6ppg.

MJ also played a majority of his career in the 90s when pace of play was much slower and the entire league seemed focused on defense and keeping scores down.

And he still averaged more points. Yes he took more shots, but not many more than Milwaukee Kareem. And let's face it, LA Kareem was a great player, but if not for the gaudy numbers he posted early on, Kareem is not in the GOAT conversation.

In terms of percentages, Kareem's true shooting percentage was .592 for his career. MJ's was .569.

While Kareem's was still higher, true shooting percentage is a much fairer and much closer number.

 

[tlance]

To be clear, not my opinion, not my words.
Just a copy/paste on the topic.


- Lebron got swept in the finals
- Lebron has as many finals losses as Kobe has rings lol
- Lebron lost back to back finals
- Lebron never three peated once, let alone twice in this weak era
- Teams celebrated winning a title on lebron's home court on 3 different occasions. ('07, '11, '15)
- Lebron lost to a Dwight Howard Magic team with no superstars in 6 games
- Lebron been the best player since 2008 according to Lebron fans but he couldn't beat the magic to meet Kobe in the finals
- Lebron is so great and goat that he had to leave his team and jump to another team with two franchise superstar players not role players, superstars.
- Jumped ship joined two superstars and still lost to a team with one superstar and a bunch of role players past their primes lol
- Jason Terry averaged more PPG's in the '11 finals than Lebron, goat lol
- Lebron would've lost the 2013 finals if it wasn't for Ray Allen's shot
- Lebron loses the finals in the following year by a record margin in 5 games lmaooo but he's the goat lol
- Lebron got cramps in San Antonio meanwhile Kobe and Jordan will play till they die basically
- Lebron then jumps ship again since he's the goat and so great he bails on Miami and goes back to Cleveland, like talk about loyalty smh
- Lebron loses in the 2015 finals where he was in position to win when he was up 2-1 with game 4 in Cleveland with Kyrie being hurt he had the chance to cement his goat status by going up 3-1 but couldn't and lost those finals as well.
- 2 years ago if Kyrie doesn't hit the dagger three Golden state wins
- Lebron scored 11 points in the 4th quarter in the first 3 games of this years finals
- Lebron lost in 5 games again lol
- In the biggest stage of them all doesn't matter how many times you made it kids all that matters is if you won it and Lebron's finals record is

2007- L (Swept)
2011- L (Lost in 6 games)
2012- W (Won in 5 games)
2013*- W (Ray Allen's finals winning shot)
2014- L (Lost in 5 games) goat
2015- L (Lost in 6 games)
2016* - W (Kyrie's finals winning shot)
2017- L (Lost in 5 games) goat
- Lebron lost back to back finals
- Lebron almost three peated in the finals with losses

Stop the comparisons with Michael when he's got to catch Kobe first smh. Kids and millennials stats don't tell the whole story in this watered down era of basketball with no physicality, hand checking, true 4 and 5's. Watch you Lebron fans make an excuse for each blunder in his record that I just pointed out lol and never accept the blame lol. So when he's 3-6 after June, provided his team even goes, can you Lebrobtards think of better excuses and blame for failure?

This is hot garbage.

Did @DorianRo write this?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

This is hot garbage.

Did @DorianRo write this?

No.
Nobody here.
It was on facebook

 

[DorianRo]

This is a perfect example of why you should never post in an NBA thread again.

Right.. Do you have any idea what guys like Shaq/Lebron/Lebron/Kobe would do to the guys Wilt/Russll faced? and yes.. the majority of the league was tiny white guys.

 

[DorianRo]

Russell was a 6 foot white guy? I was misinformed!

No he was a guy who could only manage a LOUSY CAREER 15ppg against tiny white guys. . HE would probably be a bench player if he played in the 80s-2000s. Maybe not now since the NBA is so pathetic at the Center/Forward spot compared to those eras. But still. For instance, put Shaq in the era and he probably average 55-60ppg and 30 RPG

Its probably why its better to compare only 1980s-Present. Or maybe some of the 70s. Before that the NBA was in a totally different world

 

[Raw_Bee808]

Kareem was an all time great and obviously a great scorer but I just don't see how anyone can say he was a better scorer than Jordan was.

Jordan led the league in scoring an NBA record 10 times in his career (included an NBA record 7 consecutive years and would've been more if he didn't retire the first time) Kareem led the league in scoring only 2 times.

Jordan has the highest regular season career scoring average in NBA history. Kareem is 14th all time.

Jordan has the highest playoff career scoring average in NBA history. Kareem is 20th all time.

Jordan has the most 40 point playoff games in NBA history with 38, Kareem has only 9.

Jordan has the most 50 point playoffs games in NBA history with 8, Kareem has never done it once.

I use playoffs here because that's when you are facing the best teams, the defenses, and your opponent has a chance to game plan and make adjustments against you over the course of the series.

Comparing FG% from a Center to a SG is not very fair. One player is down low and scoring from the low blocks or right under the basket whereas a SG like Jordan is doing much more shooting from out on the perimeter.

Kareem is the all time points leader but I would consider that more of an accumulation record based on his incredible longevity. Karl Malone is ahead of Jordan in all time points too and no one considers him a better scorer than Jordan.

 

[desert heat]

True. However, you also have to consider that the pay back then was nothing compared to what it is today. Back then, most players had to have regular jobs in the off season and some talented players never played after college because they could make more in the "real world".

Modern training techniques would definitely have made a difference and would have allowed some of those players to play at or close to the level they played at back then, but for many, it likely wouldn't.

Guys like Wilt, Oscar and Elgin Baylor would probably perform at close to the level they did back then.

But a guy like Bill Russell is probably more like Al Horford and The Logo is probably more like JJ Reddick or maybe Klay Thompson at best. Still very good players, but not the legends they were in their era.

the pro's of the 60's didn't make as much money, but they still lived good lives. playing pro's sports was still most every child's dream.

chamberlain was the most physically gifted player to ever play in the nba. and don't sell bill russell short, he won championships at every level, and was a world class high jumper.

 

[desert heat]

Yeah, I hear ya. It took me a lot of years to settle on MJ as GOAT. For years my top 3 alternated between MJ, Kareem and Magic.

I finally settled on MJ because, imo, everything is so close between the top 4 or 5 in history that you have to have a tiebreaker and for me, that tiebreaker is rings. MJ's 6 rings with zero finals losses is just too hard to argue against.

Plus, MJ was the alpha for all 6 of his titles while Kareem sat 2nd chair for at least 2 of his.

pfft, how many times were the lakers ripped off in the 80's? east coast vs west coast. kareem was past his prime in the 80's. magic saved the league.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Kareem was an all time great and obviously a great scorer but I just don't see how anyone can say he was a better scorer than Jordan was.

Jordan led the league in scoring an NBA record 10 times in his career (included an NBA record 7 consecutive years and would've been more if he didn't retire the first time) Kareem led the league in scoring only 2 times.

Jordan has the highest regular season career scoring average in NBA history. Kareem is 14th all time.

Jordan has the highest playoff career scoring average in NBA history. Kareem is 20th all time.

Jordan has the most 40 point playoff games in NBA history with 38, Kareem has only 9.

Jordan has the most 50 point playoffs games in NBA history with 8, Kareem has never done it once.

I use playoffs here because that's when you are facing the best teams, the defenses, and your opponent has a chance to game plan and make adjustments against you over the course of the series.

Comparing FG% from a Center to a SG is not very fair. One player is down low and scoring from the low blocks or right under the basket whereas a SG like Jordan is doing much more shooting from out on the perimeter.

Kareem is the all time points leader but I would consider that more of an accumulation record based on his incredible longevity. Karl Malone is ahead of Jordan in all time points too and no one considers him a better scorer than Jordan.

I wonder how many years Kareem was considered the best player in the game of basketball.

Id say Jordan was the best player in basketball between 7 times conservatively and 9 times generously. Was Jordan the best player in the game the 2 years Magic won MVP's? thats a hard debate.

LeBron I think has been the best player in the game this year, and the 10 years before....for 11.

 

[desert heat]

Yeah what @Wamu said. Kareem wasn't a BETTER scorer, he just scored more points because he played a million more games.

jordan couldn't have stopped the sky hook on his best day and with jordan kiss ass david stern playing referee.

 

[desert heat]

Fewer teams, but the talent on those teams was about D-League level today, except for a few guys (who are rightly remembered as great)

d league? can you even dribble a basketball?

 

[desert heat]

Bro, Kareem played 2 decades.

So, it's not surprising he has the most points in NBA history.

I personally have Kareem ahead of LeBron RIGHT NOW.

But, if LeBron gets that record?

The Captain drops to 3rd and LeBron slides in behind MJ.

kareem also has more championships than jordan or lebron. no one cares about your rankings.