teams in the KC race this off season

[Sharkinva]

I was factual, you can accept or not. That part is up to you. As far as I am concerned I made some good points and I said I don't totally disagree with you. Big money caused QBs to start early. Back when they made a dollar two 98 you could let them learn. Owners don't want to pay millions to have a guy learn how to be an NFL QB.

The PAtriots paid $3M for JImmy Grap to learn to be a QB... for the 49ers. Yea they got a 2nd ounder in return... But does any one think they would have spent that money training some one else's QB if not for already having an elite QB starting??

 

[Stymietee]

So Im going to ask a question here. What position draws the line?? If we are going to sit a QB drafted in the first round, and have him play make learn... What about a WR, RB, OT or DE?? Its great to say these QBs need to sit a year (or three) and learn to be an NFL QB. But fact of the matter is, if they are not ready to play from day one, they might not be worth the draft capitol it cost to get them. I mean thats like saying you just spent $250k on a top end sports car, but it needs a tune up before you can go out and drive it like its meant to be driven. Either these guys are worth the 1st rounder given up for them, and hence ready to start from day one... or they were over drafted and over rated. I happen to think the latter pertains to most that flame out.

Answer.....Quarterback, who's transition from college to the NFL is steeper than any other position. This is especially true as fewer schools employ pro set offenses.

BTW: they are worth the high draft picks mainly because of a desperate mindset, impatience, incompetence, and greed.

 

[Stymietee]

I was factual, you can accept or not. That part is up to you. As far as I am concerned I made some good points and I said I don't totally disagree with you. Big money caused QBs to start early. Back when they made a dollar two 98 you could let them learn. Owners don't want to pay millions to have a guy learn how to be an NFL QB.

No, first you called it a talking point, then you attempted to use the named QB's to make a point about gaining experience right away. In fact here's what you wrote:

"I know that is one of your talking points Sty and I won't say you are wrong but I would point out that guys like Cam Newton, Alex Smith, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNab and Steve Young learned with some experience"

What I then pointed out was that the very names that you used all benefitted from NOT starting. BTW: There's no doubt that people learn from experience, that includes QB's, however, that's unrelated to the point that I've made regarding college to NFL transition

 

[Sharkinva]

Answer.....Quarterback, who's transition from college to the NFL is steeper than any other position. This is especially true as fewer schools employ pro set offenses.

BTW: they are worth the high draft picks mainly because of a desperate mindset, impatience, incompetence, and greed.

Sorry man, but if you are going to burn a first rounder on a guy, he should be able to play, and at a high level. If you are going to burn a top five pick, there should be no question.

If you are going to burn multiple high picks on a guy he damn sure better not have any questions.. but he should be the unequivocal answer.

Otherwise, draft a QB in the 3rd or later rounds, let him sit and learn, then put him in.

 

[Stymietee]

Sorry man, but if you are going to burn a first rounder on a guy, he should be able to play, and at a high level. If you are going to burn a top five pick, there should be no question.

If you are going to burn multiple high picks on a guy he damn sure better not have any questions.. but he should be the unequivocal answer.

Otherwise, draft a QB in the 3rd or later rounds, let him sit and learn, then put him in.

Theoretically, yeah....factually, Naw. Otherwise everyone would already have at minimum a competent QB. In fact it is because of a desperate mindset, impatience, incompetence, and greed that the failure rates are as high as they are with top picks.

You can "know" as much as there is to know about a player and still find that he's not ready for prime time once he's in camp. The question is, does impatience, incompetence, desperation and greed, drive the next step? That step which is more often than not a quick path to failure, or do you invest and hone the talent to a point that gives him a fighting chance to at minimum become competent? Know what, it really doesn't take 2 and 3 years to know if said player will ever become something useful in the league.

BTW: If this team does exactly as you suggest and takes Jackson, how is it that your suggestion that he fails, or becomes a repetition of the failed Griffin experiment, different than me saying the same thing with the additional caveat that there just might be a better way to avoid it?

 

[Sharkinva]

Theoretically, yeah....factually, Naw. Otherwise everyone would already have at minimum a competent QB. In fact it is because of a desperate mindset, impatience, incompetence, and greed that the failure rates are as high as they are with top picks.

You can "know" as much as there is to know about a player and still find that he's not ready for prime time once he's in camp. The question is, does impatience, incompetence, desperation and greed, drive the next step? That step which is more often than not a quick path to failure, or do you invest and hone the talent to a point that gives him a fighting chance to at minimum become competent?

BTW: If this team does exactly as you suggest and takes Jackson, how is it that your suggestion that he fails, or becomes a repetition of the failed Griffin experiment, different than me saying the same thing with the additional caveat that there just might be a better way to avoid it?

Most 1st round QBs are over hyped and over drafted. The few that arent actually end up going to shitty teams where they are expected to be the savior. And occasionally, you have the ones who double up on that.. over drafted AND going to a shitty team to be the savior.

As for this current class, the guys I see as QBs worthy of a first round pick

Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield maybe. Two of them will go to shitty teams.

Allen is a 3rd rounder likely to go in the first.. again to a shitty team.

Jackson is a 2nd -4th round QB, a 1st round athlete. And for the record IM not suggesting this team draft JAckson. BUt if he declares, I think they will lock in on him like a fat kid on donuts. For a multitude of reasons.. all bad.

 

[Sportster 72]

No, first you called it a talking point, then you attempted to use the named QB's to make a point about gaining experience right away. In fact here's what you wrote:

"I know that is one of your talking points Sty and I won't say you are wrong but I would point out that guys like Cam Newton, Alex Smith, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNab and Steve Young learned with some experience"

What I then pointed out was that the very names that you used all benefitted from NOT starting. BTW: There's no doubt that people learn from experience, that includes QB's, however, that's unrelated to the point that I've made regarding college to NFL transition

I'm lost.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Jackson is a 2nd -4th round QB, a 1st round athlete. And for the record IM not suggesting this team draft JAckson. BUt if he declares, I think they will lock in on him like a fat kid on donuts. For a multitude of reasons.. all bad.

Sorry Shark - Jackson finally did declare for the draft Oh well - I doubt that the Redskins have any major desire to draft him.

 

[j_y19]

Sorry Shark - Jackson finally did declare for the draft Oh well - I doubt that the Redskins have any major desire to draft him.

You are thinking too logical, SoCal.

 

[Sharkinva]

Sorry Shark - Jackson finally did declare for the draft Oh well - I doubt that the Redskins have any major desire to draft him.

We seen this movie before

 

[j_y19]

I have a question. Lets assume KC is leaving. What is the best thing for this franchise to do in order to get the most we can for KC? Tag him? IF so, which tag? If we do nothing and he leaves, we just get a 3rd, right? Would that be a 3rd in this coming draft?

 

[gkekoa]

I have a question. Lets assume KC is leaving. What is the best thing for this franchise to do in order to get the most we can for KC? Tag him? IF so, which tag? If we do nothing and he leaves, we just get a 3rd, right? Would that be a 3rd in this coming draft?

You franchise tag him and hope to trade him because at worst he is a third rounder the following season.

 

[kbso83432]

Transition Tag. The only teams that can frontload a contract that we couldn't match are the Browns and Jets. Kirk said today he's not just gonna sign on to lose just to get paid. I will assume that eliminates the Browns and Jets, both who I think will select a QB in April anyway.

If Kirk is hell bent on leaving he may not sign with anyone else if he has the TT on him because we will just match it. So if Denver, Arizona, Jacksonville come calling and Kirk informs Dan he does not want to be here, you introduce sign and trade. It's very rare in the NFL, but this situation is unlike any other. If I'm Dan, I ask for a 1st and 3rd this year.

If Kirk and his agent don't want to play ball and help facilitte the trade, I tell Kirk we will just kelp transitioning you until you do or settle in here.

No way can you let a top 10 QB walk out the door for a 2019 3rd. If Bruce allows that, he'll lose what's left of the fanbase.

The smart play is to give Kirk Cousin D. Carr and Stafford money with 3 years of it gaurenteed and go have ourselves a season.

 

[skinsdad62]

who is paying 34 mil for a one year rental ? he cant be traded realistically . you let him walk and get the 3rd round comp pick

then you sign a bitch like bradford to hold the clipboard for our new RB/WR / qb jackson who you blow a 1st round pick on

you try to sign levian bell and hype the skins offense , you dont adress the defense in any meaningful way (maybe logan or poe ) and we end up 5-11

 

[Sharkinva]

I have a question. Lets assume KC is leaving. What is the best thing for this franchise to do in order to get the most we can for KC? Tag him? IF so, which tag? If we do nothing and he leaves, we just get a 3rd, right? Would that be a 3rd in this coming draft?

Best thing would be to tag him. And then hope he doesnt simply sign it and play.

If they dont tag him, we would get a comp pick in 2019.. depending on how much he signs for, how much WE spend in FA. And that pick could be a 3rd rounder, but could go as low as a 7th depending on how much he gets and what we do in FA. Its easier to figure out the current tax code than the Comp pick formula.

 

[Stymietee]

Assuming no LTD is in the offering, the absolute best move is the non-exclusive tag. Whatever the terms of any offer Kirk gets, the follow up conversation must include a frank answer from Kirk concerning whether or not he wants to be here. If he assures the FO that he does then they match the offer and it's done. If he confirms as I believe that he'd rather play elsewhere, then, the FO doesn't match the offer and takes the league mandated compensation. Either way game and gamesmanship ends.

 

[Sharkinva]

the FO doesn't match the offer and takes the league mandated compensation.

Except its not league mandated. As we have seen first hand, teams can and have given up a whole lot less for a franchised player. Our own team actually had to throw in an extra pick on top of the player and what we got in return was an over rated RB who liked to play dress up while the team slowly deteriorated.

 

[Stymietee]

Except its not league mandated. As we have seen first hand, teams can and have given up a whole lot less for a franchised player. Our own team actually had to throw in an extra pick on top of the player and what we got in return was an over rated RB who liked to play dress up while the team slowly deteriorated.

It might be worth it to revisit the rules governing the non-exclusive tag.

 

[Sportster 72]

I maintain that a FO that has already screwed the pooch so many times that logic doesn't see likely there are two moves.

1 LTD
2. Transition tag - match the deal or work the best trade possible (no less than a 1 and a 4)

The transition tag should would be least desirable but you at least recoup some of what you lost.

 

[gkekoa]

I maintain that a FO that has already screwed the pooch so many times that logic doesn't see likely there are two moves.

1 LTD
2. Transition tag - match the deal or work the best trade possible (no less than a 1 and a 4)

The transition tag should would be least desirable but you at least recoup some of what you lost.

Transition tag doesn’t yield anything. All we can do is match the contract.