Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi (2017)

[juliansteed]

It's not just about being different for the sake of it. Yes, we might want a different story, but at a more basic level, we want a good movie, a movie that makes sense and follows logical plot lines.

With the exception of the Leia thing, some of the differences were the parts I liked the most and are why I kind of liked the movies but they weren't enough to make my love it. I like that they blurred the lines between good and bad in a few ways. Had 2 characters working together (in a really great scene) but with entirely different objectives. We also sort of saw the opposite of that with some of the internal conflicts. I liked the Force skyping and I liked the flashbacks from 2 different characters perspectives and how they each perceived the event.

As for the Leia thing, I don't mind her using the Force in a way we've never seen before but I think it could have been done much better than having her imitate Superman, Mary Poppins, and The Wicked Witch of the West all at once.

I think I just went in with too high expectations and expected my mind to blown at some point which never happened, which is why I was disappointed despite being somewhat entertained. There were a hand-full of twists in that movie but none that were mind-blowing. I would have preferred 1 mind-blowing twist over the 4 or 5 minor twists that we got. I think a lot of us have become desensitized to certain plots twists. It probably doesn't help that we've had 2 years to speculate and theorize and share those theories online. If someone came up with the idea that Darth Vader was Luke's father in 1978, they might have told 2 or 3 people. I can't imagine there being a "Rey's parents" theory that would have blown minds because just about every possible theory has been presented at some point. I'm still about 50/50 if I believe the story we were given in that episode as that character had a bit of an agenda.

It also didn't help that my movie watching experience wasn't the greatest for the reasons that had nothing to do with the movie. A kid behind me kept kicking the back or my chair, and a couple of guys next to me kept talking, not so loud that I couldn't hear the movie but it was still distracting and annoying. And when the guy immediately beside me wasn't talking he was breathing louder than Darth Vader. Whether or not that impacted my perception of the movie seems unlikely, but it's possible that it did.

 

[DarthVedder]

My son loves Star Wars, so I took him to see it (second time for me). I really disliked it the first time, and the bad stuff just killed the whole experience for me. But now that I knew what to overlook, I enjoyed it a bit more but it still it's not better than 6.5/10 to me. As I said, the Rey+Luke+Ben stuff is great, and that fight against the imperial guards was awesome.

I liked:

1. Luke's story arc.
2. Ben and Rey's connection.
3. Ben's internal conflict.
4. The badass fight against the imperial guards.
5. Luke's force projection.

I have mixed feelings about the battle at the salt planet, because it looked great but it also displayed the First Order's ineptitude. I liked that the rebels' desperate attempt to stop the walkers with those speeders failed, showing the rebels' willingness to fight against the odds, but not resulting with a cliche victory.

Disliked and even hated:

1. First Order military leaders' ineptitude. The gag with Poe holding for Hux belonged in a three stooges movie.
2. The rebels being "just out of range" and the low-speed chase. That part was just stupid.
3. Leia using the Force to save herself, it just looked ridiculous. Even my 6-years old son complained loudly about it.
4. Finn + Rose.
5. Deux Ex Machina BB-8.
6. The bombers having drop the bombs from above the dreadnought.

 

[GNG]

 

[Edonidd]

Saw it, and have tried to convince myself that I was able to enjoy it as my farewell to Star Wars. But I really didn't enjoy it. And the realization that it isn't what I/We Star Wars fans have always wanted, and that nobody is ever interested in giving us what we want has had me upset all day.

So many problems with this movie, but a couple really stood out to me.

1. With a star destroying super base that makes the Death Star look lame by comparison, apparently multiple "Dreadnaughts" that put Super Star Destroyers to shame, and a Snoke flagship that dumpsters even those dreadnaughts; how was the first order ever losing?

2. Luke deserved better. Especially to many of us who had read years of EU stuff before they just decided to throw that all away. Luke Skywalker was my generations Harry Potter. To see Disney just throw him away in order to make room for a new version.

3. Finn's whole arc. It was completely unnecessary for any reason. How did the star-struck security guard go from tazering Finn to kissing him within like 6 hours in world time? The only way the whole arc could have ad any effect on the plot was if he had sacrificed himself. But despite his speeder thing being in the lead and driving straight towards the cannon full speed, and despite Rose being ordered to turn back, and then visibly breaking off; somehow she rams into him from the side to save him. Actually I think one of the writers came up with the line "We can't fight against what we hate, we have to fight to save what we love" and they wrote that whole side arc just as a reason for somebody to say the line.

4. I get that they're trying to be inclusive and have a girl be the hero, and all women being the good guy leaders. (All the bad guys are white men, except for the best fighter who is also a woman.) They had to include a black guy so Finn gets a big part again. They realized they forgot the Asians, so Rose and her sister (?) got parts. But honestly what does Disney have against hot women? Every woman in the movie beside Rey was hideous. The #3 woman behind Leia and purple hair girl had a nose even Cyrano de Bergerac would have made fun of.

5. Apparently they should have just crashed a ship in light speed into the Death Stars, the base thingy in episode 7, any other dreadnaughts, super star destroyers, or Snokeships they run into. Best weapon ever. Certainly better than gravity dropped bombs in space, where you can only drop them straight down...

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

When I go to movies I don’t think too much about reality. If you go to a movie about aliens, laser sword Samarais, and magic and expect reality, you’re stupid.. If this were real life, every time they jumped to hyper speed, they would exit several hundred years in the future.

I thought this was a good Star Wars movie. I enjoyed it. The only part I didn’t like was one everyone is complaining about with the useless story arc. Other than that I thought it was fantastic. The battles were very entertaining in IMAX. I’ll probably see it again.

 

[Duffman]

One of the things I haven't seen talked about much that really pissed me off was *****Spoilers*****



They completly glossed over the death of Admiral Ackbar. They briefly mentioned it and I'm not saying they had to have a funeral scene but he was a top person in the rebellion and yet no one seemed to care he died. They pretty much treated him like he was a nameless grunt.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Saw it, and have tried to convince myself that I was able to enjoy it as my farewell to Star Wars. But I really didn't enjoy it. And the realization that it isn't what I/We Star Wars fans have always wanted, and that nobody is ever interested in giving us what we want has had me upset all day.

So many problems with this movie, but a couple really stood out to me.

1. With a star destroying super base that makes the Death Star look lame by comparison, apparently multiple "Dreadnaughts" that put Super Star Destroyers to shame, and a Snoke flagship that dumpsters even those dreadnaughts; how was the first order ever losing?

2. Luke deserved better. Especially to many of us who had read years of EU stuff before they just decided to throw that all away. Luke Skywalker was my generations Harry Potter. To see Disney just throw him away in order to make room for a new version.

3. Finn's whole arc. It was completely unnecessary for any reason. How did the star-struck security guard go from tazering Finn to kissing him within like 6 hours in world time? The only way the whole arc could have ad any effect on the plot was if he had sacrificed himself. But despite his speeder thing being in the lead and driving straight towards the cannon full speed, and despite Rose being ordered to turn back, and then visibly breaking off; somehow she rams into him from the side to save him. Actually I think one of the writers came up with the line "We can't fight against what we hate, we have to fight to save what we love" and they wrote that whole side arc just as a reason for somebody to say the line.

4. I get that they're trying to be inclusive and have a girl be the hero, and all women being the good guy leaders. (All the bad guys are white men, except for the best fighter who is also a woman.) They had to include a black guy so Finn gets a big part again. They realized they forgot the Asians, so Rose and her sister (?) got parts. But honestly what does Disney have against hot women? Every woman in the movie beside Rey was hideous. The #3 woman behind Leia and purple hair girl had a nose even Cyrano de Bergerac would have made fun of.

5. Apparently they should have just crashed a ship in light speed into the Death Stars, the base thingy in episode 7, any other dreadnaughts, super star destroyers, or Snokeships they run into. Best weapon ever. Certainly better than gravity dropped bombs in space, where you can only drop them straight down...

6. Horrible planet with giant dog races. It's nice to know the First Order does shady shit around the galaxy in order to make money, still don't know how the fuck the Resistance makes money so it's pointless anyway.

7. Maz Kanata's cringey cameo that says to teenagers "see, I'm cool too".

8. Captain Phasma does nothing and dies.

9. Snoke does nothing and dies. Would have been a great time for Luke to show up and distract Snoke in order to let Rey escape, but Kylo takes the opportunity to finally kill Snoke while he actually has something that might distract him.

10. Cringey Commander we never heard of refusing to tell Poe the plan even after he stages a mutiny.

There are probably more. The fact that Rey's parents are nobody important isn't really an issue at all. Obi Wan and Yoda were pretty powerful and aren't Skywalkers but Kylo doesn't know who her parents are either so it can still be used as a twist in Episode 9. We learned nothing about her parents despite a significant amount of time dedicated to it in this movie.

 

[Clayton]

The fact that Rey's parents are nobody important isn't really an issue at all.

Technically thats still not actually a fact. Just a statement made that could still be proven false (though I do suspect that its true because Rey believes it)

I'm also not too bothered by Snoke but only because I'm hopeful that Kylo Ren has some fellow Jedi dudes somewhere that can help him out. If his retinue never comes to fruition then the whole Snoke thing is pretty balls.

 

[Cowboyinexile]

I thought it was good but not great. I know people don't like the whole casino sidestory because it was pointless and made things worse (all the purple hair lady had to do was tell Poe the plan and he wouldn't have set motion on events that eventually got most of the resistance killed) but it might be a setup for IX. Without it no force sensitive kid in the end and no reveal that rebel leaders aren't afraid to get their hands dirty when pursuing military technology.

I wish Luke would have gone deeper into the sins of the Jedi with Rey. I thought their scenes were great but if you think about it at its peak the Jedi order was an elite cult who really didn't answer to anyone. It would have been compelling for him to go deeper into the sins of the Jedi with her.

I didn't like the Lea fakeout. I don't care how force sensitive you are being sucked into deep space is fatal. It's a movie so liberties with physics aren't out of line, but she could have been injured in the explosion and it wouldn't have been a distraction.

My other big gripe is the bombers. As slow as those things moved anyone on them had to know it was a one way trip. I read they were supposed to be a callout to WW2 bombers but in this universe that type of weapon is useless. They can fire lasers and have weapons that can destroy planets-surely there is a weapons builder in that universe that can figure out how to build a missle.

That being said, it was fun. Snoke getting his was a great twist. No one saw that coming and the fight scene afterwards was, aside from Darth Maul, better than any in this series. It's rare that you find yourself rooting for a primary antagonist and then not knowing how to feel when he reveals his true intentions. I was hoping Ren would tell Rey screw all of this let's just go and let things play out while we farm dirt and make babies on Tatooine. That whole sequence was spectacular. The ending was wonderful. The comedic elements were overplayed at times but generally effective (Poe and Hux early made me lol).

All in all, it didn't live up to my expectations but that may have been unrealistic. It wasn't something epic, but was definitely worth two and a half hours and $10 on popcorn and a coke.

 

[Duffman]

There are probably more. The fact that Rey's parents are nobody important isn't really an issue at all. Obi Wan and Yoda were pretty powerful and aren't Skywalkers but Kylo doesn't know who her parents are either so it can still be used as a twist in Episode 9. We learned nothing about her parents despite a significant amount of time dedicated to it in this movie.

I'm like 99% sure that was just a trick by Kylo to try and lure her to the darkside, saying her parents were nobodies and that her only hope of amounting to anything was joining him.

Also I doubt Phasma's dead, she'll likely come back and shock Finn and get the upperhand before being defeated.

 

[wildturkey]

I'm not tagging spoilers. If you're in this topic right now and haven't seen it, its your own fault.

So I got to see it today. I think reading the spoilers first helped me temper expectations and I enjoyed it a bit more than I thought I would. That said, I'd still only rate it around a 7.5. I think I might even like TFA better. There's just too much bad writing, missed opportunities, and rushed/forced shit. They barely addressed any of the plots introduced in TFA and there's very little character development outside of Rey and Ren. Snoke, Finn, Poe, Phasma, are all glossed over and eliminated Snoke (and Phasma?) cases. The First Order and the Resistance is glossed over as well. You still have little concept of how big a threat TFO is and how weak or formidable the Resistance is. I know it from non-movie canon, but the films do a shit job at this. Lucas' movies did a great job through small dialogue lines to establish stuff like this. The new series lacks it.

I hate Finn now. I was excited when he was introduced in TFA but he sucks now. They doubled down on his golly gee shucks stumbling hero bit and have him a totally USELESS plot. And it was a long one too. And to make it worse, they forced a new character, Rose, in there. Rose is terribly written. I swear she was just inserted to sell more action figures and merch. Del Toro's character was lame and predictable. Nothing about this worked. This was filler. They had a plot, realized they left Finn out, and came up with some bullshit for him to do. Killing Snoke without filling in some details is such a fucking cop out. The battle scene was visually cool but think how much more intense those scenes would have been if they eliminated CasinoWorld and used it for more Snoke. The Resistance running and the TFO tracking them was dumb as well. Instead of a tracking device, why not something more sinister like sleeper agents? That gives you more sense of dread like "oh shit, TFO really is bigger than we thought. Maybe the Empire will come back".

The Rey/Ren/Luke stuff worked. It's the only thing in the movie that does. I'm a little miffed Luke was essentially written out despite being the main guy beforehand, but there's still hope (no pun) he returns as some kind of badass one with the Force ghost. Either way, its still a decent arc, seeing him more tempted. Same goes for Ren tempting Rey more and more.

Having seen it, I know what's wrong with the movie. It's 2 things.

1) There's too many characters. You've got the OGs, the newbies introduced in TFA, and even more new people in TLJ. This movie attempts to give meaning to all of them. That's impossible. The originals had characters, but still revolved around a small core group. This doesn't have that. It's like a series of small plots for each character taped together trying make one big plot which brings me to

2) This is the big one. There's no central focus. Hate on Lucas all you want for his directing skills or cheesy lines, but the dude could craft a narrative. All of his movies have a through-line (The Skywalkers bringing balance to the Force and restoring the galaxy). He knew his destination and how to get there (often using classical hero methods). The sequels don't have that. It's scattered. There doesn't appear to be any sense that people sat in a room before TFA and said "Here's what we have, here's where we're going". It's just people adding pieces as they come and go and The Last Jedi really suffers because of it.

 

[Duffman]

My biggest issue besides the first half of the movie being boring as shit is they didn't kill Princess Leia. Look we all know how good Carrie was in the role but she's dead and yet Leia is still alive. So instead of giving her a big sendoff farewell(maybe have her be the one to suicide hyper drive into TFO) they act like she's gonna be around in Episode 9 which is the absolute worst thing they could've done. Now she's either A) killed off-screen which is a big fuck you to all the fans or B) still "around" but she's conveniently on some mission we never see or just off screen the whole time and is still talked about like she's still there which is still a big fuck you to the fans.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

My biggest issue besides the first half of the movie being boring as shit is they didn't kill Princess Leia. Look we all know how good Carrie was in the role but she's dead and yet Leia is still alive. So instead of giving her a big sendoff farewell(maybe have her be the one to suicide hyper drive into TFO) they act like she's gonna be around in Episode 9 which is the absolute worst thing they could've done. Now she's either A) killed off-screen which is a big fuck you to all the fans or B) still "around" but she's conveniently on some mission we never see or just off screen the whole time and is still talked about like she's still there which is still a big fuck you to the fans.

You forgot C. Use the same technology they used to put Tarkin in RO.

 

[Duffman]

You forgot C. Use the same technology they used to put Tarkin in RO.

The producers and higher-ups said they would never do that.

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

The producers and higher-ups said they would never do that.

I think it’s the only option unless they already have enough scenes shot with her in them. Her death could’ve caused a rewrite where she got knocked out for half he movie so they could use her scenes in the next movie.

 

[tabascojet]

meh....7 > 8 and 5 still rules them all.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I'm not tagging spoilers. If you're in this topic right now and haven't seen it, its your own fault.

So I got to see it today. I think reading the spoilers first helped me temper expectations and I enjoyed it a bit more than I thought I would. That said, I'd still only rate it around a 7.5. I think I might even like TFA better. There's just too much bad writing, missed opportunities, and rushed/forced shit. They barely addressed any of the plots introduced in TFA and there's very little character development outside of Rey and Ren. Snoke, Finn, Poe, Phasma, are all glossed over and eliminated Snoke (and Phasma?) cases. The First Order and the Resistance is glossed over as well. You still have little concept of how big a threat TFO is and how weak or formidable the Resistance is. I know it from non-movie canon, but the films do a shit job at this. Lucas' movies did a great job through small dialogue lines to establish stuff like this. The new series lacks it.

I hate Finn now. I was excited when he was introduced in TFA but he sucks now. They doubled down on his golly gee shucks stumbling hero bit and have him a totally USELESS plot. And it was a long one too. And to make it worse, they forced a new character, Rose, in there. Rose is terribly written. I swear she was just inserted to sell more action figures and merch. Del Toro's character was lame and predictable. Nothing about this worked. This was filler. They had a plot, realized they left Finn out, and came up with some bullshit for him to do. Killing Snoke without filling in some details is such a fucking cop out. The battle scene was visually cool but think how much more intense those scenes would have been if they eliminated CasinoWorld and used it for more Snoke. The Resistance running and the TFO tracking them was dumb as well. Instead of a tracking device, why not something more sinister like sleeper agents? That gives you more sense of dread like "oh shit, TFO really is bigger than we thought. Maybe the Empire will come back".

The Rey/Ren/Luke stuff worked. It's the only thing in the movie that does. I'm a little miffed Luke was essentially written out despite being the main guy beforehand, but there's still hope (no pun) he returns as some kind of badass one with the Force ghost. Either way, its still a decent arc, seeing him more tempted. Same goes for Ren tempting Rey more and more.

Having seen it, I know what's wrong with the movie. It's 2 things.

1) There's too many characters. You've got the OGs, the newbies introduced in TFA, and even more new people in TLJ. This movie attempts to give meaning to all of them. That's impossible. The originals had characters, but still revolved around a small core group. This doesn't have that. It's like a series of small plots for each character taped together trying make one big plot which brings me to

2) This is the big one. There's no central focus. Hate on Lucas all you want for his directing skills or cheesy lines, but the dude could craft a narrative. All of his movies have a through-line (The Skywalkers bringing balance to the Force and restoring the galaxy). He knew his destination and how to get there (often using classical hero methods). The sequels don't have that. It's scattered. There doesn't appear to be any sense that people sat in a room before TFA and said "Here's what we have, here's where we're going". It's just people adding pieces as they come and go and The Last Jedi really suffers because of it.

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. It feels disjointed due to the amount of characters in the film doing their own thing and Yoda shows up to pretty much piss all over the lore. I don't mind that they went in a different direction than the classic jedi/sith thing, but did we really have to slap Star Wars fanatics in the face in the process?

Feels like we spent 2 years waiting for a hot mess.

 

[MarkOU]

WTF worst of the franchise. Seriously disapponted in that lump of shit pushed together.

 

[MarkOU]

Disney has ruined this shit and the writter/ director deserves a bag of shit mailed to his house.

 

[BPNAZ]

*******Spoilers*******

Imo having two different directors helm these sequels was a mistake. Johnson came in and essentially gutted 2 major storylines. Reys lineage and the worst of all, ending Snoke just like that. Snoke turns into a throwaway villain for some reason. I miss good ole days when bad guys were bad and good guys were good. This whole inner conflict shit only works for so long.
Once again the villains are lacking and the decent one gets thrown out.

A line that kylo also says that is a pretty big deal and seems to be a big plot hole or just a hole was him mentioning that he "took some of the students and killed the rest"........so where are the other adult jedi/sith or was that just horrible writing

Oh and the Asian character and Finn have absolutely zero chemistry.

So ep 9 is going to be all about luke rescuing Darth from darkside and rebels finally overcoming all odds and defeating the Empire



Oh wait.....sorry insert Rey for luke. Kylo for vader and yadda yadda

These aren't bad films, but they feel more like remakes than anything else

There just doesn't really seem to be an overlapping plan here. It's anyone's guess where the payoff is