Redskins' Kirk Cousins: Still far apart on extension terms

[Sharkinva]

Aww Cmon man. Seriously? You guys want to ridicule me and some others because we don't think KC deserves to be paid as the best player in the league..

But....

you are gonna feel sorry for the guy because we aren't' offering to pay the guy as such. Poor fucking pitiful him. Boo Hoo. Gimme a break.

It's easy for us to sit here and say give this guy an extra few million per year, maybe we will throw this guy and this guy and hey..maybe this guy a little extra since he's performed pretty well, done his job and been a team player. Let's just give everyone a fuckingvrsise since they are starving to death...,

Dude, no one is saying feel sorry for Kirk..

What i and a few other are saying is, its bullshit to constantly use the contract number to justify what you all really want, and that is a QB other than Cousins. As Skinsdad mentioned, the FO is banking on him failing so they can look right in the event that he does, and if he succeeds and decides he wants out, some in the fan base will simply say he is an ass because he left for the money.

 

[Ruzious]

I don't think there is an argument that if they sign Kirk to a big deal it will have an effect on the rest of the roster. The point is a good QB is by far the most important position on the field and if you can nail down a pretty good one it can take you a long way. Further than a good WR and 2 solid linebackers.

Yes it is - when you have a GREAT QB. We don't. We have a QB that needs a wide assortment of weapons to compete.

 

[Sleepy T]

Dude, no one is saying feel sorry for Kirk..

What i and a few other are saying is, its bullshit to constantly use the contract number to justify what you all really want, and that is a QB other than Cousins. As Skinsdad mentioned, the FO is banking on him failing so they can look right in the event that he does, and if he succeeds and decides he wants out, some in the fan base will simply say he is an ass because he left for the money.

Sorry for misunderstanding Shark, but that's a little how it sounds. I don't necessarily want another QB, someone other than Cousins. I like Cousins. I just think the FO should do its diligence in making sure they get it right this time. Looks like that is exactly what they are doing. You guys say KC has done enough to prove himself to be starter in this league. I don't disagree. But is he any/much better than someone like Tony Romo, Alex Smith, Tyrod Taylor. I say no. That is where we all disagree. I don't care about the money or the market for that matter. It's the principal of it.

 

[Ruzious]

Which position is more important, QB or WR? How did Detroit do with Megatron?

You're making my point better than I was. Almost every football evaluator outside of Skins would rate Detroit's QB on the same level or higher than Cousins - most of them higher. He's been Cousins for 6 years instead of 2, and what's Detroit's record been with him at the helm?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yes it is - when you have a GREAT QB. We don't. We have a QB that needs a wide assortment of weapons to compete.

I get that, our QB can't carry a team like Rodgers. But they went to the playoffs and nearly went again with a horrible (not bad, horrible) defense, a kicker that cost them at least one win and no running game. Seems to me his play turned a 4 win team into an 8 win team.

 

[skinsdad62]

Not true at all. There is no reason to sign him long term now b/c he is already playing for us. If he fails us now, so what we move on. If he fails us on a LTD then that's a problem like I already said. So we have more options by not signing him now.

its called the cap learn about it

 

[Sharkinva]

Sorry for misunderstanding Shark, but that's a little how it sounds. I don't necessarily want another QB, someone other than Cousins. I like Cousins. I just think the FO should do its diligence in making sure they get it right this time. Looks like that is exactly what they are doing. You guys say KC has done enough to prove himself to be starter in this league. I don't disagree. But is he any/much better than someone like Tony Romo, Alex Smith, Tyrod Taylor. I say no. That is where we all disagree. I don't care about the money or the market for that matter. It's the principal of it.

IM going to call a spade a spade here. This is 100% a case of getting to where you need to be, but not being with the person you wanted to be there with. If Griffin had had two years the likes of what Kirk did, most of the fan base would be livid at the thought of not signing him long term LAST year. Tagging him a second time has jack shit to do with due diligence and everything to do with hedging the bet because they really didnt expect Kirk to succeed. So now they want to rent him for another year... JUST in case another option presents itself.

 

[Ruzious]

Ruz, I'm not sure its is you who is not thinking this through. Have you investigated our cap situation? We have the money. Secondly, as DGF pointed out, you don't have a capable QB you go no where. Period. You don't have a capable ILB, you can cover. Finally, don't be so sure about Pryor. Rumors are he got the best offer from Cleveland to stay. He chose to leave because of their QB situation. His success, and legacy, depends on a QB that can get him the ball. That is smart business.

You keep saying we'll have the money next year, and I keep pointing out WHY that seems very improbable. Can you show me how we're going to sign all - or just most - of our important free agents - considering we signed a bunch of key guys for this year to ONE year contracts. Even DGF - who's on your side with Cousins and deserves kudos (Did I really say that? ) for being even-handed on the issues - keeps pointing out that Cousins's's's' contract will effect who the Skins can afford to keep and/or get next year.

 

[redskin4209]

[QUOTE="Breed, post: 10057468, member: 8712"

The things I'd like to see transpire this year with Kirk are..........

Get off strong, get off early. I'd like to see Kirk come out sharp and fluid starting game one. The last two years the Skins have started out 1-2 and Cuz has only looked sharp the entire game in just one of those six games. St Lou in 2015. He was good at points in the win against the Giants last year, but going 0-4 in the red zone may've made a 29-27 victory closer than it needed to be.

Build upon his W/L record against winning teams. Putting a number on this would be pointless at this time. Gotta see how things actually play out in said games.

Just generally put it all together this season. If he does that. Instead of talking about him becoming the highest paid player contractually in the history of the NFL this year. We'll be talking about him becoming the highest paid player contractually in the history of the NFL next year. I'll be a part of the Pay Kirk band wagon then if he does that.[/QUOTE]






Good points and putting the last nail in this debate about should we pay or not pay KC. This is something I mentioned here before the draft. Build on his wins with winning records. He has to start beating teams with winning records. Everybody here should see this in KC record against teams with over .500.

If we can have some kind of improvement on the def side, if KC keeps improving his win/lost records and acourse stop making bone headed plays in big games then I'm all for having KC. But like I said sometime ago. KC has to prove it to me. I am not talking about his number of TD's, best QB the 20 yrs and all the other stuff etc. I am talking about our SKINS winning and advancing in the playoffs. Most of the teams in the playoffs have winning records well over .500.

 

[Ruzious]

its called the cap learn about it

Damn, you guys give Dean a hard time - not that it bothers me.

 

[Sharkinva]

You keep saying we'll have the money next year, and I keep pointing out WHY that seems very improbable. Can you show me how we're going to sign all - or just most - of our important free agents - considering we signed a bunch of key guys for this year to ONE year contracts. Even DGF - who's on your side with Cousins and deserves kudos (Did I really say that? ) for being even-handed on the issues - keeps pointing out that Cousins's's's' contract will effect who the Skins can afford to keep and/or get next year.

Some one hold my beer while I take this kid to class.

OK lets say we do the dumbest thing and just Franchise tag Kirk again....

That would leave us with a projected $20M in cap space.

Now Josh Norman cost us $8M in year one on a $75M deal.

As I dont think we are going to be signing any one else to a TOP of the market deal that makes them the highest paid at their position

So if we have $20M and zero carry over, we could still afford to sign all of the guys we want to keep... and thats saying we TAG Kirk and his cap number is $35M

If we signed him long term now, I would expect his cap number to be about $20M leaving us with $34M to resign guys we want to keep, and add a free agent or two as well as our rookies.

Mind you none of this takes into account guys we might actually cut for performance or that they are simply too expensive at their current price, or any carry over from this year.

 

[skinsdad62]

Aww Cmon man. Seriously? You guys want to ridicule me and some others because we don't think KC deserves to be paid as the best player in the league..

But....

you are gonna feel sorry for the guy because we aren't' offering to pay the guy as such. Poor fucking pitiful him. Boo Hoo. Gimme a break.

It's easy for us to sit here and say give this guy an extra few million per year, maybe we will throw this guy and this guy and hey..maybe this guy a little extra since he's performed pretty well, done his job and been a team player. Let's just give everyone a fuckingvrsise since they are starving to death...,

who said anything about giving him the largest contract in the sport ? and if he did get that how long would it last ? he has been a top 85 player in the world for 2 years now . he is worth a lot of money . but i get it its all about ABC and moving the goal posts

 

[skinsdad62]

Damn, you guys give Dean a hard time - not that it bothers me.

well he said a foolish thing

 

[Sleepy T]

its called the cap learn about it

You don't know what KC is asking for wrt guaranteed money, so you can't really talk about the cap and what affect it would have on it.

I don't want to hear about what we paid him last year on a tag
and what we might pay him this year on the tag. It's not relevant to the conversation...which brings me to something else..

Some of you hem and haw about the guaranteed money we would have paid him last year and this possibly this year as in the ball park of 45 million? That it was a total waste. Well that number is a little misleading because we would paying him something for his services anyhow. Let's say we had him under contract and last year and this year we paid him a total of 37-38 million. So....by my count, we are paying him an extra 8ish million over the last couple of years to further vet him and be able to cut him loose with no consequence or recourse should he get injured or shit the bed and turn into Fitzpatrick 2.0.

Serious question... What's wrong with that approach? From a business standpoint and risk standpoint, I think Dan and Bruce have been smart about this.

 

[Sleepy T]

who said anything about giving him the largest contract in the sport ? and if he did get that how long would it last ? he has been a top 85 player in the world for 2 years now . he is worth a lot of money . but i get it its all about ABC and moving the goal posts

Maybe I'm wrong skins dad. Maybe he isn't... But tell... what is KC wanting? What is his magic number? So because of timing, you give him the big paycheck. More than anyone else??

 

[Ruzious]

Some one hold my beer while I take this kid to class.

OK lets say we do the dumbest thing and just Franchise tag Kirk again....

That would leave us with a projected $20M in cap space.

Now Josh Norman cost us $8M in year one on a $75M deal.

As I dont think we are going to be signing any one else to a TOP of the market deal that makes them the highest paid at their position

So if we have $20M and zero carry over, we could still afford to sign all of the guys we want to keep... and thats saying we TAG Kirk and his cap number is $35M

If we signed him long term now, I would expect his cap number to be about $20M leaving us with $34M to resign guys we want to keep, and add a free agent or two as well as our rookies.

Mind you none of this takes into account guys we might actually cut for performance or that they are simply too expensive at their current price, or any carry over from this year.

LOL, what school district is this class from? Projected 20 mil with who unsigned? At least give a link to your work. I am impressed that you turned 20 into 34, but I'd rather actually see the entire projected 2018 cap that you're assuming - player by player. Your numbers could be right, but it's hard for a U of MD grad to tell - when you're not giving me a complete list.

 

[skinsdad62]

understanding guaranteed money would help you . once the gurantees are paid out then you can cut him and move on. if we signed him right away we would be out from him if he failed already

 

[Sharkinva]

Maybe I'm wrong skins dad. Maybe he isn't... But tell... what is KC wanting? What is his magic number? So because of timing, you give him the big paycheck. More than anyone else??

You pay him because its in the best interest of the team. Im sorry but unless you expect him to totally tank out, the money is to a degree irrelevant because we know he will be one of the highest paid players for about a year if that. But plan B while it might save you cap space, stands a better than even chance of costing you years and wasting the careers of some of the good players we have now.

 

[skinsdad62]

Maybe I'm wrong skins dad. Maybe he isn't... But tell... what is KC wanting? What is his magic number? So because of timing, you give him the big paycheck. More than anyone else??

the only people saying he wants more then anyone else is the people on this board .my best guess is he wants the tag number for a couple of years and then some increases for a few more as any player would

i imagine luck's contract is the area it will fall into

 

[Sharkinva]

LOL, what school district is this class from? Projected 20 mil with who unsigned? At least give a link to your work. I am impressed that you turned 20 into 34, but I'd rather actually see the entire projected 2018 cap that you're assuming - player by player. You're numbers could be right, but it's hard for a U of MD grad to tell - when you're not giving me a complete list.

Fine,,, here goes.

Lets say Cousins is on a deal that matches Luck plus a little more year 1 he costs $19M year 2 $20M

Resign Pryor, give him a deal that matches say Dez so year one $7M year two 13M

Brown we will make one of the highest paid and give him a Kikley deal So in 2018 $7M

Long we give a fredrick deal So year one $5M


Those are the three guys i expect to get paid if we want to keep them.

So $54M with no carry over.

I just spent $39M , so that leaves around $15M with me making our top four FAs some of the highest paid players in the league at their position, with zero carry over from this year and no cuts.