Yotes Acquiring Datsyuk's contract is Bullshit!!

[Psych3man]

How is trading a retired player's contract to get out of the cap hit in any way legal?

Red Wings trade Pavel Datsyuk's contract to Coyotes - Sportsnet.ca

 

[PuckinUgly57]

It isn't new, the Devils did it in 2006 when the Sharks had cap space.

Vladimir Malakhov signed a deal but unexpectedly retired. The Sharks had the cap space and "he" was traded to them with a conditional 1st round pick in return for Jim Fahey and Alexander Koryluk.Of course he never suited up a single game for them and his contract came off the books a year later.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with it. How a team manages their money is up to them, plus it helps a rebuilding team like the Dogs to get a high pick to develop their team faster. It holds the Red Wings (or any team) accountable knowing you may be able to sign whoever for whatever, but if the time comes to dump that contract there will be a premium (1st round pick in this case) paid to do so, your doing or not.

The Red Wings essentially had to pay a 1st round pick to take $7.5 million off their hands.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

Ya it's part of the game strategy. I read that the Coyotes liked a player that was falling in the draft and so they reached out to the Red Wings to move up 4 spots to get him. Red Wings actually gained a 2nd round pick and got away from Datsyuk's cap hit, and it only cost them dropping 4 spots.

Coyotes got who they wanted and don't have to struggle as hard to reach the cap floor.

I sort of see what your saying though, since the cap floor is designed to keep everyone competitive, but now the Coyotes have Pronger and Datsyuk on their books, neither of which will ever play in the NHL again.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Here is a list of some of the salary dumps, pretty common practice.

Dirty Dangle Hockey: Strange, But Brilliant Salary Cap Trades

 

[davnlaguna]

Coyotes lowering the cap floor for themselves.
Wings getting cap space.
Maybe we can get Brown to retire and trade his deal.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

If Brown retired the Kings wouldn't have to trade his deal, it would come off the books completely since it wasn't a 35+ deal.

If he did today for example, the Kings are free and clear of $5.875 million in cap hit, 6 years/$32.5 million in actual money. That would actually be the best case scenario for LA, although it wouldn't be for Brown.

I think it's time for Dumbo to use those Sicilian roots and find some "family members" to plant some suspicious white substances in his carry ons at LAX.

=)~~

 

[Kings4OT]

I hear Richards is looking for "work"

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Time for Richards and Dumbo to reconcile over a beer and AC//DC's Dirty Deeds.

 

[Psych3man]

I sort of see what your saying though, since the cap floor is designed to keep everyone competitive, but now the Coyotes have Pronger and Datsyuk on their books, neither of which will ever play in the NHL again.

The more I think about this the more screwed up it is. I would think the NHLPA would be going nuts about this because it takes NHL jobs away from active players. I wonder if they never thought of it at the last negotiations or negotiated it away.

 

[LoCal Kings]

If the price for Detroit to dump 1 yr. of Datsyuk's contract is a 1st round pick...... and the price for Chicago to dump 1 yr. of Bickell's contract is a young and promising forward in Teravainen...... can you imagine what the asking price is for the Kings to dump 6 YEARS of Brown's contract?!?!?!!?

Granted, Brown has a lot more to offer than Bickell, or a retired player in Datsyuk. But surely, the asking price to dump his salary must have been too high. Probably Toffoli and more. No way Deano goes for that.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

It probably was extremely high, Dumbo is not dealing from a position of strength. In the two example however, there is not salary retention, both Chicago and Detroit walked away not owing a penny on those existing contracts.

In Brown's case, because of the term and money left, the Kings will be eating a ton of that salary. The maximum allowable salary retention is 50%, which would be $16.25 million cash and the shared cap hit of $2.9375 for the remaining term (6 years).

I think at a minimum we are looking at 35% ($11.375 million cash/$2.05625 million cap hit) but even then you would need to find a team who has a lot of space now and in the foreseeable future because they would be absorbing $21.125 million cash/$3.81875 cap hit for 6 years. Not a lot of those teams around. Of course there are a lot of moving parts - draft picks, prospects, roster players, salary coming back, etc. - so it's not easy by any means but this is the hand Dumbo dealt himself. This connects to the Richards buyout that should have happened in 2014 but didn't, now he has extremely limited options whereas buying out Richards and not having it hit the books would have made a buyout here much more easy.

I can't reiterate enough of all the contracts this guy has given out as a GM not only in LA but elsewhere, this Brown contract is the worst ever decision he made. I saw this shit coming a mile away 4 years ago and called it - hate being right on it but that day is here and it sucks because the Kings cannot do much of anything with him still on the books.

 

[Psych3man]

Puck, can Brown choose to rip up the old and renegotiate a new contract?

 

[RobBase]

Happens all the time.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Puck, can Brown choose to rip up the old and renegotiate a new contract?

Negative. NHL contracts cannot be renegotiated since the 2005 CBA - what is signed is what is owed no matter what team eventually ends up with that player.

That was premitted under the old CBAs - recall Jagr being traded from Pittsburgh to Washington in July 2001 with 2 years/$20.7 million left and Leonsis "ripping that contract up" and signing him to a ridiculous 8 year/$88 million deal* (that included an 8th year option).

The Caps would eventually trade him to the Rangers and they would share the salary and cap hit as well under the 2005 CBA. This was the precursor to the more formal Salary Retention we are seeing under this CBA now, making it easier for teams to facilitate trades by sharing the contractual responsibility.

The Kings are almost impossibly screwed with the Brown deal without some sort of heavy penance. The only way they will get out of this is to have Brown retire, where the entire balance of the contract, cash, and cap hit would be erased since he wasn't 35+ when he signed it but I highly doubt Brown is ready to leave $32.5 million on the table at only age 31.

*Jagr was the NHL's first 8 figure salary player even though we are seeing those these days with Kane, Kopitar, Ovechkin, Toews, etc. more and more. Post 2005 CBA, option years were also not permitted as this would lower the cap hit and GMs would have taken advantage of that as well.

 

[LoCal Kings]

Brown going on LTIR could possibly help?

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Not really, he would
a) need to be really be injured
b) they crack down on that stuff hard to make sure GMs aren't circumventing the cap (I'll never understand the Pronger LTIR situation however for a number of reasons)
c) the Kings would not get the full $5.875 million overage, just a portion of it

Assuming the Kings go into the season with a $71.5 million season cap and the salary cap is at $73 million for 2016-17, the basic formula for LTIR Overage is Cap Hit of Player - Available Cap Space. In Brown's case this would be: $5.875 million (Cap Hit) - $1.5 million (Available Cap Space) = $4.375 million.

It's a chunk, but still not enough for a T4 defender or a T3 forward, maybe a decent 2nd liner. Of course this is all contingent on passing the sniff test, which means unless Brown seriously sustains an injury that requires LTIR this isn't a viable option. Under LTIR the injured player still counts against the cap, the team just gets a bit of a buffer to replace said player without incurring a Cap Overage penalty.

On top of that, if at any time Brown is deemed able to play, the Kings have some serious problems on their hands because they would need to shed salary to become compliant under the $73 million.

 

[LoCal Kings]

LTIR would be stretch.
Wondering how the market will open up a bit after the "big fish" in Stamkos, Lucic, Shattenkirk, etc. all get signed. Maybe once those dominoes fall, Lombardi can trade one or two contracts.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

There may be something, not to mention when training camp opens up and decisions are made and injuries occur. Nate Thompson for example of the Ducks, just underwent surgery for a torn labrum and is out 5-6 months - something like that happens in September and that player is put on LTIR, an opportunity could open up for Dumbo to move Brown with salary retention.

A lot can still happen, but I have to say moving Brown is probably the hardest NHL contract for any GM to move or acquire. He's young enough, experienced enough and is still a decent B6 player but the term is what is killing them, not so much the dollars. If he had maybe 1-2 years left he would have been a goner by now but at 6 years it really limits any chance of moving him.

Stupid, stupid, stupid - loyalty once again burned Dumbo, which is turning out to be his biggest deficiency. Dude needs to learn to separate professionalism from his personal feelings.

 

[pete6835]

More BS - Bolland trade

The Panthers-Coyotes trade on Thursday, which sent Dave Bolland and prospect Lawson Crouse to Arizona for a couple of draft picks, was all about saving salary cap space for Florida and about the 19-year-old Crouse for the Coyotes.

What about Bolland, who has three years left on a deal paying him $5.5 million against the cap? Don’t expect him to suit up for the Coyotes any time soon.

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NHL isn't bothered by Coyotes salary cap methods