wow kinda sounds like a team i know

[nj_cup]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...oing-capitals--identity-crisis-210841622.html


while you read this you can certainly replace capitals with devils. mcphee with lou and various devils players names for captials.

the core of both teams are rotten and yet both gm's were still building towards it

 

[irishwhip03]

The Caps system didnt change when they hired Oates when it should've. And I think they will regret firing him. The idea there was try to score 5 goals a game and limit the opponent to anything less then that. Can only go so far with that mindset. And unless you have something similar to the 80s Oilers in your lineup, more often then not you wont be scoring 5 goals a game.

In my opinion they should try to trade Ovechkin. Huge contract but there are probably teams out there that would jump at the chance to acquire him.

Ovechkin just is not a player you can build around. He isnt a top 5 player in the league and borderline top 10. Still great skills but the only thing he's gonna help win is a fantasy hockey league. He's the Allen Iverson of the NHL.

Plus I dont understand how you could compare the Caps situation with ours. With all their offensive talent over the years the Devils have had much more success. If we had Parise and Kovy here the last 2 seasons and underachieved then maybe I could get the comparison.

 

[nj_cup]

The biggest problem with McPhee during his tenure was a failure to address systemic problems with his core.

The biggest problem with Lou during his tenure was a failure to address systemic problems with his core.

Defense is disgusting yet Salvador gets a contract and a captaincy even though he shows zero ability to lead. Everyone complains about the lack of leadership on this team and praise jagr for his work ethic and he is a ufa!!!! Elias step up to the plate any time u want Marty you too. Or you worried about getting more starts? Elias you worried if your buddy zidlicky will ne here next year. There was a reason Sutter stripped the c from him.
What does Lou do when the players stop listening to julien? He fires him a week before the playoffs and the team gets booted in round 2 I believe


Need a playoff scorer? Here’s Joel Ward. Need a veteran center? Here’s Jason Arnott. Not going to the net enough? Mike Knuble will. Need a hard-nosed guy with a Cup ring in his resume? Take our money, Troy Brouwer.

Substitute any player you want here most recent offenders clowe? Ruutu?


He was loyal to the core of this team, to a fault, believing it could coalesce into a champion and never making the tough call to blow it up. There’s no reason Mike Green should be entering his 10th season in Washington making $6 million. There no reason why Brooks Laich, exalted de-facto leader that's led the team nowhere, should be signed through 207. When the Caps failed to meet expectations, coaches’ heads rolled but beloved franchise faces never did.


No reason for zubrus to get that contract he did or ruutu to be dealt for when you have clowe and zubrus no reason to give Salvador or a train roster spots.


Obsessed with adding pieces at forward, and never making an essential, bold move on defense.
How's that 8 rotating d working out for us?

 

[irishwhip03]

What is the Devils core now though? Henrique, Zajac? To me were a team in transition. Couple old players , couple young players. Lou was caught with his pants down the last 2 offseasons. Last year especially.

Caps already have their guys in place. With the Devils , and Ive said it a lot before , guys like Clowe, Zubrus, Ruutu are great pieces to have when players like Parise and Kovy are around. Are those names that different then Brower , Knuble and Joel Ward? Not by much. Our problem is we dont have that one guy that is Ovechkin-like. Or even Backstrom-like. Few teams do. But I think its clear the Capitals problems come from a much different level then on-ice production. Their system is fucked. And until someone can come in there and change Ovie's style the way Kovalchuk changed his here , they will never have that much success.

If given the choice Id much rather know that my team just needs to find one special player then know that the core of my team is unbalanced and in a lot of ways undisciplined.

 

[MadCaptain]

Cup, I think your hate for Lou has got you seeing things everywhere. They guy in the article is saying that McPhee focused on their forwards when the problem the entire time was their defense. Hell, the only core player who has remained all this time is Elias. It went from the Gomez/Elias/Gionta/Marty/Rafi speedy core to the Elias/Parise/Kovalchuk/Marty heavy forecheck core to the Elias/Zajac/Henrique/Schnieder/Greene grinder puck possession core now.

Lou's problem is he always keeps his role players around far too long, not the core players.


The Caps problem was with poor coaching hires and an attempt to bring up 3 rookie Dmen when they were trying to compete for the cup.

Hanlon, Boudreau, Hunter, Oates: 0 NHL coaching experience between them when hired. Sometimes you need a guy that has experienced a lot of problems and know how to handle it.

 

[DevilishWon]

Cup, I think your hate for Lou has got you seeing things everywhere. They guy in the article is saying that McPhee focused on their forwards when the problem the entire time was their defense. Hell, the only core player who has remained all this time is Elias. It went from the Gomez/Elias/Gionta/Marty/Rafi speedy core to the Elias/Parise/Kovalchuk/Marty heavy forecheck core to the Elias/Zajac/Henrique/Schnieder/Greene grinder puck possession core now.

Lou's problem is he always keeps his role players around far too long, not the core players.


The Caps problem was with poor coaching hires and an attempt to bring up 3 rookie Dmen when they were trying to compete for the cup.

Hanlon, Boudreau, Hunter, Oates: 0 NHL coaching experience between them when hired. Sometimes you need a guy that has experienced a lot of problems and know how to handle it.

Ya think....great point about the caps coaches though. It's one thing to try a guy with no experience, hell every great coach had a 1st head coach job at some point...but that many in a row is crazy

 

[nj_cup]

i dont know how to do multiple quotes so i will type it out.


irish the first post you say you don't get the comparsion to the devils and caps. then you compare knuble and ward to clowe and ruutu.

my problem is the core of this team. its vet heavy and yet the team has no leadership no work ethic. the longest tenure player on here had his captaincy taken from him and should be a leader in the locker room. other players with "tenure" you can include zubrus greene salvadore since hes the captain and marty the "greatest" goalie of all time he should have total command in that locker room. yet we have jagr a 41 year old who everyone is praising for his work ethic and commitment to the team. how is that possible? no one has a problem with that? with all that vet and "core" expereince how can this team be so lazy? lack of heart?

mad

i dont consider schinder or henrique part of the core of the devils yet. henrique has only been here 2 years schinder can leave after this season. to me the core of the team are vets that have been here for some time. i think we all agree that lou and his thinking of keeping 7 d men HURT big time either in development and even on ice product. yet what does he do at the deadline? or last off season? he adds a forward brings back harrold for a multi year deal doesn't ship zid off for a pick. will most likely resign fayne and probably won't use a buy out on a train or salvador. so get ready for another year of the same drama on the back line while larrson rots away.


lets not kid ourselves either with the revolving door of coaching we have had. going back to 2000 we have had 12 coaches behind the bench. some of them were for double stints but still 12 times the coaches have been changed. also you mention hiring back to back coaches without nhl experience? well lou did hire sutter and maclean both with zero coaching experience only a year of lemaire sandwich between them. how did sutter and maclean turn out?


there really is a lot of the same issues with both teams.

mcphee was loyal to his core as mentioned. lou is beyond a doubt loyal to his core. elias will get a 2 year deal when he hits ufa and is 40. marty will probably get a 2 year deal also. madden pando colin white all lou's boys all got bad deals. fayne will be another one that gets a contract when he shouldn't.

 

[nj_cup]

everyone also wants to blast the caps and their system?


ovie comes the same time as parise does.


they surround ovie and backstrom with so/so talent and mike green leading a so/so defense in front of a average goalie. they go play offense hockey with a good coach.

the devils have parise/zajac surround them with so/so talent a no name defense and a younger better marty. they play 2 way defense first hockey.


outside of our 1 cup run which team has been a bigger failure? the caps get all the attention because of their "star" power yet we had a "star" in parise but had him playing a 2 way game and we didn't do squat with him.

 

[irishwhip03]

I dont get the comparison between the 2 franchises for reasons I already stated. Both teams have issues. They're just different issues. And all role players are pretty comparable at the end of the day. Just cause I think that there isnt a huge difference between a guy like Joel Ward and Ryane Clowe doesnt mean there are similarities in the way a franchise is run and looked at from the outside.

And I guessing you're talking about Elias getting the captaincy taken from him. I could've swore he didnt want to be the captain. He doesnt seem like that vocal leader. His on ice play does his talking for him. And thats fine with me. I cant blame the last two seasons on not having a Parise-type leader wearing the C.

 

[MadCaptain]

Cup - I think we disagree on what a core players is. You think its the veterans and I think its the players that the style is build around. DeBoer played a grinding, along the boards, puck possession style with Dmen that can move the puck up to offset the lack of forward speed. It was built around Greene/Zajac/Henrique/Jagr/Elias to provide offense and then he filled in a bunch of similar style role players around them.

I never considered Madden/Pandolfo/Brylin/White/Salvador/Zubrus core players.


As for the 7 Dmen project and what not - Lou doesn't do that. All Lou has control of with rosters is the 23 people available. that includes your 7-8 Dmen, 13-14 Forwards, and 2 Goalies.

 

[nj_cup]

this type of play does not favor this team at all. there is zero speed on the team to get the puck on the forecheck and they are too old to have continued pressure.


i dont understand the lou doesn't control the d man project comment? he has final say on this roster on this team and how it is.

 

[MadCaptain]

I agree the team sucks and Lou keeps bringing in more Pete guys which makes everything worse.

As for the 7 Dmen comment, GMs are only in charge on bringing guys up and down to the minors. Pete is in charge of who dresses and who sits in the press box. If Pete wants to dress Gelinas or Harrold as pseudo-forwards, put in Marty as goalie every game, and make Gionta #1 bff last minute extra forward game breaker, he can.

 

[nj_cup]

i dont really buy into that. maybe on "normal" teams but lou has 1000000000000000000000% coverage on this team he is into everything and everywhere. he definitely has a hand in who sits and dresses. just the way he is. just like in moneyball