Why is Ichiro considered automatic for HOF?

[StanMarsh51]

Oh hell yes you can. His decline doesn't have anything to do with on just a below average team he would've been a damn near lock for the HOF, just using these last 10 years as wins collectors. The dude had to pitch knowing if he gave up 2 runs the game was over from the age of 19. The offense finally gets good when he is a number 4 starter.

His run support hasn't been all that bad when you look through his career....sure, there were some years where he got no run support (ie - when he won 13 games with a low 2 ERA), but on the whole the notion of him getting poor run support is a bit exaggerated...

2006 - run support of 4.49
2007 - 5.30
2009 - 4.37
2014 - 4.27
2015 - 4.10
2016 - 4.29
2017 - 5.58

So it's not like you can speculate he'd have 50+ more wins (or some number to make him easily HOF worthy) if he gotten decent run support in the years where he didn't get good run support....


Not to mention, on the whole, he generally doesn't pitch well in games he doesn't win (this holds true for most starters)....Felix has a 4.54 career ERA and 1.41 WHIP in games he hasn't won.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Oh hell yes you can. His decline doesn't have anything to do with on just a below average team he would've been a damn near lock for the HOF, just using these last 10 years as wins collectors. The dude had to pitch knowing if he gave up 2 runs the game was over from the age of 19. The offense finally gets good when he is a number 4 starter.

except that is not so much on the offense... that is more about the teams bullpen...

 

[Mebert]

It seems like the biggest ding against Ichiros chances are that his team in Japan would not release his rights for 9 years? I think it is a safe bet that Ichiro 22-27 would have put up similar stats that he did in his peak. If that happens he does not need to compile well past his prime and damage his overall numbers.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

OP is trolling, or he doesn't actually watch baseball. Ichiro is one of the best players of his generation, its not all about nerd stats, offensively and defensively he made a tremendous impact from day 1, he was a terror on the basepaths as well, unreal player.

Even by the stats he's a pretty clear HOF'er to me. OP is trollin'

 

[Fountain City Blues]

It seems like the biggest ding against Ichiros chances are that his team in Japan would not release his rights for 9 years? I think it is a safe bet that Ichiro 22-27 would have put up similar stats that he did in his peak. If that happens he does not need to compile well past his prime and damage his overall numbers.

Yeah, I think this is one of the fairly easy ones to figure out of the players to come over from Japan. He was a great player for a long time despite getting into the league in his late 20's.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Just a side note.

I noticed while looking at Ichiro's stats that he lead the AL in intentional walks 3 times.

How does that happen?

Not really a great trick to get prime Ichiro out. He might not hit a HR, but if all he needs is a single to get a man home, he might be one of the last guys you want to see as a manager.

 

[Edonidd]

59.4 WAR

107 career OPS+

355 OBP

755 OPS

meh...

And he rarely ever threw first pitch strikes plus he doesn't even have a single season with over 20 wins. 0 Cy Youngs!

What? His pitching stats are just as relevant as his power hitting stats.

 

[scoutyjones2]

And he rarely ever threw first pitch strikes plus he doesn't even have a single season with over 20 wins. 0 Cy Youngs!

What? His pitching stats are just as relevant as his power hitting stats.

so ignore his OBP? 355 is HOF??? Again, he has the worst OBP of any hitter with 3000 hits and all he did was slap singles...

 

[Hunter Montana]

so ignore his OBP? 355 is HOF??? Again, he has the worst OBP of any hitter with 3000 hits

Lou Brock has a .343 OBP.

 

[Cyder]

59.4 WAR

107 career OPS+

355 OBP

755 OPS

meh...

2 time batting champ
7 times led the league in hits
10 gold gloves
503 stolen bases
3000 hits
canon for an arm
Rookie of the Year

That's a Hall of Famer

 

[Edonidd]

so ignore his OBP? 355 is HOF??? Again, he has the worst OBP of any hitter with 3000 hits and all he did was slap singles...

He changed the way games were played, that's more than just slap singles. Nobody challenged his arm, once he had the ball people stayed where they were. That's game changing. He lead the league in intentional walks on multiple occasions. Just think about that, a singles hitter being intentionally walked, not only once or twice but leading the league over a season. Several times. That's game changing.

 

[broncosmitty]

3,000 hits
Rookie of the Year
MVP
2 batting titles
262 hits in a season
500 stolen bases
Lead the league seven times in hits
10 gold gloves
.346 Avg and .400 OBP in the post season

Well, when you put it like that...

 

[broncosmitty]

How is this six pages in?

 

[Hunter Montana]

Ichiro also has the record for most consecutive 200 hit seasons with 10.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Defense and strong peak play is ultimately what puts Ichiro in. Don't get lost in the weeds about only x amount of WAR.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

You do realize Trammel was WS MVP???

Ichiro was a very good hitter, but how do you ignore a 355 career OBP??? Is that really a great, HOF hitter? And why not compare him to others? Hell, lets compare him to other 3000 hitters...he's worse at OBP, OPS and OPS+ (Beltre, Jeter, Rose, Arod, etc....)

There is the opposite argument...why isn't Simmons in the HOF or Edmonds?

I love the guy but he isn't HOF to me...he didn't transform the game. He never played in a WS.

I made the argument many times that he was overrated since he was a singles hitter that never walked but it's hard not to put him in.

 

[ElTexan]

2001-2012: 113 OPS+
2011-2017: 114 OPS+ Dexter Fowler

 

[broncosmitty]

I like how people pretend HOFers get in for their WAR and OPS+.


Silly kids...

 

[navamind]

Defense and strong peak play is ultimately what puts Ichiro in. Don't get lost in the weeds about only x amount of WAR.

This. And as I posted before, he was one of the better players in MLB history from age 27 onwards in terms of WAR. Ichiro's first ten seasons make him a HOFer, even if his last 7-8 seasons dragged those numbers down.

 

[navamind]

Lou Brock has a .343 OBP.

this. and Ichiro was much better than Brock.