Why is Ichiro considered automatic for HOF?

[redseat]

YAY...dynamic singles hitter, what about his hardly impressive OBP????

He's the Derek Jeter of the outfield

 

[navamind]

Using power stats for a non power hitter.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If we're going to call him "one of the greatest hitters ever" and compare him to everyone, then should we not take everything into account?

 

[Chewbaccer]

If we're going to call him "one of the greatest hitters", then should we not take everything into account?

Yes, everything. Including things that don't specifically reward power.

 

[navamind]

He's the Derek Jeter of the outfield

Except Ichiro could actually field his position (and quite well). Jeter was a horrific shortstop.

 

[redseat]

Except Ichiro could actually field his position (and quite well). Jeter was a horrific shortstop.

I was just commenting on the slappy singles part

 

[navamind]

Yes, everything. Including things that don't specifically reward power.

Sounds like you're trying to twist an argument in his favor by conveniently ignoring things he wasn't good at.

If we're going to ignore his anemic power production, then what about the fact that he only had three seasons in the AL top 10 for OBP? Is it not the leadoff hitter's job to get on base?

 

[DragonfromTO]

Also, it's the Baseball HOF, not the MLB HOF.

I believe that it is the National Baseball Hall of Fame, if you want to get technical.

 

[Chewbaccer]

I believe that it is the National Baseball Hall of Fame, if you want to get technical.

NO BLUE JAYS THEN!

WOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chewbaccer]

Sounds like you're trying to twist an argument in his favor by conveniently ignoring things he wasn't good at.

If we're going to ignore his anemic power production, then what about the fact that he only had three seasons in the AL top 10 for OBP? Is it not the leadoff hitter's job to get on base?

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm asking to post everything, not JUST power stats.

And he still had a good OBP for his career, even though it took a bit of a hit for him hanging on too long(though, he doesn't get to 3000 hits if he doesn't hang on too long)

And let's talk about defense, base running, not starting in the Majors until age 27 and still getting to 3000 hits, and still being very productive well after what should have been his prime years.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm asking to post everything, not JUST power stats.

And he still had a good OBP for his career, even though it took a bit of a hit for him hanging on too long(though, he doesn't get to 3000 hits if he doesn't hang on too long)

And let's talk about defense, base running, not starting in the Majors until age 27 and still getting to 3000 hits, and still being very productive well after what should have been his prime years.

Is that what OPS is? I've never thought of it as a power stat.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Is that what OPS is? I've never thought of it as a power stat.

Power hitters tend to have higher slugging percentages.

Ichiro was a unique player. He was a singles hitter, but arguably the best singles hitter since the deadball era.

 

[navamind]

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm asking to post everything, not JUST power stats.

And he still had a good OBP for his career, even though it took a bit of a hit for him hanging on too long(though, he doesn't get to 3000 hits if he doesn't hang on too long)

And let's talk about defense, base running, not starting in the Majors until age 27 and still getting to 3000 hits, and still being very productive well after what should have been his prime years.

A career .355 OBP is good. I said that before. And it's true that hanging around put a pretty good dent in his numbers (he had a .376 OBP and 117 OPS+ from 2001-10), but even that OPS+ barely cracks the top 500.

And I never said he wasn't a HOFer, I'm assuming you think I said he shouldn't be in. I said I think he's worthy and I even posted a link comparing his production to everyone else age 27 onwards. I'm just questioning his reputation as a "great hitter".

 

[Chewbaccer]

A career .355 OBP is good. I said that before. And it's true that hanging around put a pretty good dent in his numbers (he had a .376 OBP and 117 OPS+ from 2001-10), but even that OPS+ barely cracks the top 500.

And I never said he wasn't a HOFer, I'm assuming you think I said he shouldn't be in. I said I think he's worthy and I even posted a link comparing his production to everyone else age 27 onwards. I'm just questioning his reputation as a "great hitter".

I didn't read the thread, my comment was targeted at the OP.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Power hitters tend to have higher slugging percentages.

Ichiro was a unique player. He was a singles hitter, but arguably the best singles hitter since the deadball era.

Sure, but that's just part of OPS.

 

[obxyankeefan]

Power hitters tend to have higher slugging percentages.

Ichiro was a unique player. He was a singles hitter, but arguably the best singles hitter since the deadball era.

While I agree with most of your argument in this thread. you went a little far on the bolded.

In my lifetime:

Carew, Boggs, and Gwynn

Between the deadball era and my birth

Waner, Heilmann, and if I wanted to look I could probably come up with a few more.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Sure, but that's just part of OPS.

If one half of the equation isn't as high as a slugger's, the state is gonna be lower than a slugger's.

Power bats are more valuable, I don't think there's any debate about that, but there's still a lot of value to a guy that gets a shit ton of hits and is a threat to leg out a single on a routine grounder to short.

 

[Chewbaccer]

While I agree with most of your argument in this thread. you went a little far on the bolded.

That's fair

 

[navamind]

That's why raw OPS is kind of dumb even if it does have some correlation to run scoring. wOBA is better as it actually assigns proper run values to batting events and scales like OBP. Ichiro's wOBA is .328. You have to go 55 pages to find Ichiro's name.

Major League Leaderboards » 2018 » Batters » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

Even if you look at his 2001-10 production, it's a .348 wOBA. That's a lot better, but still nowhere near the best hitters of his era let alone all-time.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Just a side note.

I noticed while looking at Ichiro's stats that he lead the AL in intentional walks 3 times.

How does that happen?

 

[obxyankeefan]

Just a side note.

I noticed while looking at Ichiro's stats that he lead the AL in intentional walks 3 times.

How does that happen?

Man on second two outs. I would walk Ichiro depending on who was batting after him.