Wholestaff

[SF11704]

Been a lot of talk about our pen and wholestaff games recently. Thought it would be a good topic thread ...

My thoughts ... whether or not we like it I think we are moving to the wholestaff concept. Not every game but maybe 2 of 5.

Very difficult to manage wholestaff. Starters can get much more flexibility. Many times we have seen a starter have a rocky start and then settle in. Not the case with a whollestaff pitcher. They don't have the luxury of settling in. They need to perform immediately.

Managing a wholestaff game is different and difficult. We are still learning. Usually a meltdown occurs when a wholestaff pitcher is left in one pitch to long. But how to you know when that pitch is. Should Watson been left in to pitch to Machado with the bases loaded and 2 outs? Easy to say no ... now ... not sure it was so clear cut then. Prior to Machado Watson had given up 3 hits,1 run and a walk.

For me .... this is the really hard part of managing wholestaff games or the pen itself. When is the point you pull that pitcher?

The meltdown happens so fast you don't see it until it's happened ... and then it's too late

Just my humble opinion .... easy to have opinions after everything has played out and you're not on the spot!

 

[LHG]

Just my two cents - with the 3 batter rule, I would hope that the manager has seen enough to know if the pitcher is needing to be pulled or left in the game. However, part of the decision is going to be based on how many pitchers have already thrown. I know that your question has to do more with close games, so I assume, in most of those (unless its one of those NFL scores) the bullpen should still have a good amount of pitchers left. So i think that the 3 batter rule will help aid a good manager's ability to determine whether the pitcher should face another batter or not.
Related to this, if the wholestaff concept works its way into taking up 3 to 5 of the starting pitcher spots, there will be a need for a lot more long men in the bullpen. More guys will need to throw multiple innings. So the question is, will farm systems get guys used to throwing out of the bullpen for 2 to 3 innings a game or will they continue to go with the traditional starter roles and then switch them to the bullpen at the big league level?
Lastly, I wonder if the MLB will go back to capping the number of pitchers on a big league roster. If they do, that could artificially keep the traditional starter position on longer with many big league clubs. Going wholestaff will necessitate, in my opinion, the need for more pitchers on the roster. If a team goes through 5 to 6 pitchers per game, teams will probably need to carry at least 15 pitchers. Maybe not having starters will decrease injuries but, with the amount of significant arm injuries that already occur in professional baseball, I would think that teams will not want to throw too many pitchers back to back on a regular basis during the course of the season.

 

[SF11704]

Yeah ... the 3 batter rule complicates things to some degree. I personally don't like it. I would prefer to have my team change pitchers whenever they wanted. It should be about trying to win the game ... not speed it up.

 

[tzill]

Yeah ... the 3 batter rule complicates things to some degree. I personally don't like it. I would prefer to have my team change pitchers whenever they wanted. It should be about trying to win the game ... not speed it up.

Interesting. The 3 batter rule is the only new rule I actually like. G-d love Boch, but his interminable pitching changes and 4+ hour games sucked ass.

That said, it seems like the minors pitch clock is coming. Apparently it has really helped reduce Ks, reduce BBs and sped up the game appreciably.

 

[calsnowskier]

Interesting. The 3 batter rule is the only new rule I actually like. G-d love Boch, but his interminable pitching changes and 4+ hour games sucked ass.

That said, it seems like the minors pitch clock is coming. Apparently it has really helped reduce Ks, reduce BBs and sped up the game appreciably.

But the pitch clock already exists in the MLB. You can see it in the background sometimes if the camera angle is just right (or if you just look at it if you at the game). The umps just completely ignore it.

 

[SF11704]

Interesting. The 3 batter rule is the only new rule I actually like. G-d love Boch, but his interminable pitching changes and 4+ hour games sucked ass.

That said, it seems like the minors pitch clock is coming. Apparently it has really helped reduce Ks, reduce BBs and sped up the game appreciably.

I understand what they are trying to do but I also feel it really ties a teams hands in the late innings ... more obvious in playoffs ....
Example ... Webb pitches into the 8th .. tie game .. 1st batter doubles. That's followed by a walk.
Webb is pulled ... whoever Kapler brings in has to pitch to a minimum of the next three batters ... no matter what happens. ...

I just always preferred the individual match ups when the game was on the line

Just my personal preference....

 

[tzill]

I understand what they are trying to do but I also feel it really ties a teams hands in the late innings ... more obvious in playoffs ....
Example ... Webb pitches into the 8th .. tie game .. 1st batter doubles. That's followed by a walk.
Webb is pulled ... whoever Kapler brings in has to pitch to a minimum of the next three batters ... no matter what happens. ...

I just always preferred the individual match ups when the game was on the line

Just my personal preference....

I understand. But if the next three hitters up are L/R/L then Bochy would spend the next 40 minutes getting through the inning. Lopez/Romo/Affeldt before we even get to the bottom of the 8th. I don't miss that.

 

[SF11704]

I understand. But if the next three hitters up are L/R/L then Bochy would spend the next 40 minutes getting through the inning. Lopez/Romo/Affeldt before we even get to the bottom of the 8th. I don't miss that.

I understand your position ... I never really minded to 40 minutes .... as long as we won!!!!!!! Now if the Reds can take at least two from the Doggirs ... that would make this a good weekend ...