What would it take for you to believe this team can compete perennially?

[cezero]

This precludes the notion that they are already built to contend perennially. If you think they are, feel free to explain why.

If you think they only need a piece or two to be a perennial contender, what are those pieces, and what would it take to get them? Can they be filled with the FA class of 2015? Could they be traded for? Are they potentially already on the farm?

If you think they need a lot of pieces, again, what are those pieces, and what would it take to get them? Can they be filled with the FA class of 2015? Could they be traded for? Are they potentially already on the farm?

I'm asking for actual input because I think it will be fun to see if Z and Nintendo have any of the things we talk about in place by opening day 2015.

I think it would take sacrificing/trading a number of our strengths (pretty much exclusively from our pitching talent) that will hurt to let go for position players that we desperately need literally everywhere in the outfield, most of the infield, and at DH. If you can't develop your own offensive prospects worth a shit, and can't sign FA worth a shit (or don't have the payroll to do it in a competitive way with big teams), then you pretty much have to try to trade for talent that COMPETENT teams have developed. That means taking terrible risks, of course, because you're trading solid major leaguers under long-term club control sometimes for minor league, "near" ready for MLB talent.

Thinking about our current position prospects, DJ Peterson might have the range and agility to play 3B at the MLB level, and could definitely play 1B, so that's something that might develop over the next 18 months or so...and that could put moving Seager into play.

It's a catch-22 because I don't trust Z to do any of it, but I also don't see any other way of building a club that can contend over the course of several years.

 

[SeattleCoug]

If you think they only need a piece or two to be a perennial contender, what are those pieces, and what would it take to get them? Can they be filled with the FA class of 2015? Could they be traded for? Are they potentially already on the farm?

For arguments sake I will pretend that we have a competent front office and GM we can trust. The biggest unknown is the budget. How much if any will be added. Not a lot is coming off the books this winter. Just Morales, Hart and you will get a couple million off Smoak assuming that he is finally kicked to the curb. The only real contributor you are probably losing is Chris Young

Looking at the roster the best places to upgrade would probably be Corner Outfield, 1B/DH and one -starting pitcher. The FA class doesn't have great offensive options, mainly guys you would need to overpay to get like a Nelson Cruz, Melky Carbrera, Pablo Sandoval, etc.

Im ok with Lomo at either 1B or DH. I don't expect both spots to be upgraded so I think Lomo has shown enough to be at one of those spots and hopefully the other is addressed.

Starting pitching wise I think 3-4 arm is needed. The kind we didn't acquire last year. If we had we wouldn't have needed guys like Erasmo and Maurer to get spot starts. The sexy names out there are Lester, Scherzer and Shields but I don't think they need to spend money there. Guys that I would like are more like Ervin Santana or Brandon McCarthy. You should be able to get one of those on a cheaper deal. Would also allow you the flexibility to package either Walker or Elias in a deal for a bat.

I think this offseason will be interesting. You actually had a respectable season with mostly young players. In 2009 and 2007 the teams were veteran laden for the most part. You also have Cano and Felix who are probably at their peak and will on the books for a long time. If you don't show you are "all in" now then it will be extremely depressing.

 

[NWinAZ]

I don' think the answer is one on-field person, but one off-field person. A GM like one from Cards or Schuerholz from the Braves glory days. One great GM makes you a perennial contender, not one particular player. Evidence to that would be Felix or Cano or RJ or Jr. or Edgar or.......

 

[SeattleCoug]

Thinking about our current position prospects, DJ Peterson might have the range and agility to play 3B at the MLB level, and could definitely play 1B, so that's something that might develop over the next 18 months or so...and that could put moving Seager into play.

I still think Peterson is a year away. He struggled somewhat in the second half in AA. The last thing we need is another guy to be rushed up here. In terms of other prospects, I feel like most of them are here already. I don't really much help down there for next year.

 

[cezero]

Those sound right to me as well.

I certainly don't think what I'm saying is necessarily right. I didn't think there was a chance in hell this team could be .500 this season, so more than likely, I'm completely wrong about everything.

I didn't even talk about pitching we need to acquire. In terms of triage, I put it slightly below offensive needs.

It will be interesting to see if any of what people say on here gets done.

 

[NWinAZ]

I have said it before and I will say it again, this will be a big off season for Mariners in the regards that they can no longer hide behind the bs that they are signing vets because they aren't ready to contend or that they are not just a piece or 2 away. This off season they have to finish what they started with the $240M signing and coming up short this off season will cause them to lose any credibility they may still have....which I am not sure they have any left.

 

[wazzu31]

I don' think the answer is one on-field person, but one off-field person. A GM like one from Cards or Schuerholz from the Braves glory days. One great GM makes you a perennial contender, not one particular player. Evidence to that would be Felix or Cano or RJ or Jr. or Edgar or.......

The huge problem is I truly only think there is one option and that is to skyrocket the payroll. The fans already aren't coming to games and I don't think there is time to try to break stuff down like the Braves did. They developed prospects while also keeping the budget decent and made some smart deals like Maddux and McGriff, not doing those deals before they were a contender. The Mariners are already past that point because A. They don't have the prospects to go that route, none of the prospects that are within a year or two are the caliber of Justice, or either Jones B. With those other organizations they didn't put nearly half the budget into a couple of guys.

I don't even really think they have enough in the farm system to make enough deals to offset it. They realistically have 4 trade options IMO that can net them anything can make a difference in the coming years and that is Walker, Paxton, Seager and Petersen.

 

[cezero]

I agree completely with what you're all saying about payroll and supplementing the $50 million/year wondertwin combo of Felix and Cano like a competent team should.

I guess it all begins and ends with understanding that Z can't "beane" a team together with under $100 million. Pretty much no perennial contender can.

But I'd say the likelihood of getting a 30-50% increase in payroll is about 1 in eleventy billion. Just sucks.

 

[NWinAZ]

35m[/ame]
All but Toronto and Seattle. RT [URL="https://twitter.com/MLB_PR"]@MLB_PR: 28 of 30 MLB clubs have reached the #Postseason at least once since 2003.

 

[wazzu31]

35m
All but Toronto and Seattle. RT @MLB_PR: 28 of 30 MLB clubs have reached the #Postseason at least once since 2003.

And that is the crap that was so frustrating with them hiring Bavasi after Gillick. They needed to get someone like Jack after Gillick that was willing to start over since the Mariners had a ton of vets who were basically done and had plenty of highly touted prospects who didn't pan out. Bavasi just started tossing money at free agents instead of trying to replenish the farm system and drafted for need instead of potential.

I obviously don't have confidence in Jack but he is kind of screwed right now. The free agent pool isn't great and they only have one offense prospect that is semi close. So that leaves him the option of trades, before last season that was his glaring weakness but last year his deals weren't really that bad, just didn't really work out with Morales and Jackson. I think the Morrison deal worked well just Justin Smoak threw a huge wrench into the start of the season with making Morrison play in the OF.