What to do about this upcoming problem?

[themuzzer]

Agent's Take: Examining the Jimmy Graham grievance, possible scenarios - CBSSports.com

Where does it end? LBs want DE money....TE's want WR money......RB's that come out of the backfield and catch lots of passes will want WR money......QBs that scramble and still put up passing yards will want QB and RB money....How about the the WR that also returns Kicks? Or a Center that does Long Snapper duty......

When guys can play multiple positions I think they deserve more money....


The NFL won't resolve it with a percentage of snaps where you lined up...Then it will come down to whether or not a LB has his hand on the ground or standing up to decide if he was on the line or in the backfield......

Franchise tag is becoming tricky.

Hybrid players are the future.......Get use to it.....They days of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are gone....QB's will need to do both, throw and scramble......

Johnny Manziel could succeed like Russel Wilson, Kaepernick, Vick, RG III, Newton, etc etc.....Johnny just won't have anyone to throw too.

 

[Thruthefog]

What I'm going to do, is smoke another bowl and let the executives worry about it.

 

[themuzzer]

What I'm going to do, is smoke another bowl and let the executives worry about it.

I think that's Mayhews thought process...He's an executive and will let other executives worry about it....Lewland does the same thing, he just choose booze over weed.

Passing the buck to make a paycheck does no one any good.......When you can't fire anyone the system is broke.....Teachers with tenure, VA personal and apparently GMs of football teams.

As a school bus driver I would love to put my hands on certain kids....But I can't because I can be fired....So I go about my day trying to teach them right from wrong, because mommy or daddy passed the buck to me, the bus driver.

 

[VulturesRule]

There's only one thing for the league to do at this time.....


PUNT

 

[gandydancer]

There's only one thing for the league to do at this time.....


PUNT

Does that guy get more money for being a office bitch for league and a punter?

 

[themuzzer]

I never PUNT when I can make something happen.....I'll go for it on 4th and 1 every single time regardless of field position.

 

[Kreton]

The Jimmy Graham solution is simple. Don't franchise tag people. Players should be paid on their value to the team. Jimmy Graham is a big part of their offense and should get what he's worth. The wrench in this is they are trying to pay him almost nothing (NFL standards) for what he does.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Johnny Manziel could succeed like Russel Wilson, Kaepernick, Vick, RG III, Newton, etc etc.....Johnny just won't have anyone to throw too.

While I agree you will have the occasional year where a running QB and his team will exceed expectations -- I just don't see the running QB becoming the norm.

It is nice to be able to scramble -- but unless you are built like Cam Newton -- you are going to take way too many unnecessary hits and miss much more time than pocket QB's.

If you look at the QB's listed -- the 'most successful' running QB's you listed -- Russell Wilson, Cam Newton and Kaepernick, in 2013, their defenses ranked #1, #2 and #3 in scoring defense. These guys are asked more to not give the game away, than they are to carry their team, as their defenses are shutting teams down.

 

[themuzzer]

While I agree you will have the occasional year where a running QB and his team will exceed expectations -- I just don't see the running QB becoming the norm.

It is nice to be able to scramble -- but unless you are built like Cam Newton -- you are going to take way too many unnecessary hits and miss much more time than pocket QB's.

If you look at the QB's listed -- the 'most successful' running QB's you listed -- Russell Wilson, Cam Newton and Kaepernick, in 2013, their defenses ranked #1, #2 and #3 in scoring defense. These guys are asked more to not give the game away, than they are to carry their team, as their defenses are shutting teams down.

Do these QBs still scramble and make plays? Back in the day Fran Tarkeneton (sp) ran a lot.....He was rare....Today it's becoming the norm...Were going to see tons more of it.....The days of the Pocket passer are over...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Idk about all that other crap, but I see the beef that TEs like Graham have. They are basically WRs- they line up split out off the line and run routes. That's a WR in my book.

Pettigrew is a TE, he gets paid like a TE. Graham deserves WR money, imo.

 

[TBBishop]

I understand Graham's beef. Last year though was when he should have started his fight. If he felt he was a WR, then he should have had the team label him a WR before his contract was up. He's the second most important player on his offense and should be paid like he is that important to them....when he signs his next contract. At the moment though, he is looking at the franchise tag and should be paid as his position says he should be paid. That goes for any other position too. RBs who catch out of the backfield should be paid by their production. LBs who rush the passer should be paid by their production. They will in turn raise the average for franchising their position and make it more likely that teams will sign their positions long term instead of franchising them. But this may come back to bite Graham. He is believed by most to be the best TE in the game. If he's a WR, he may not be a Pro Bowler, he may not be an All-Pro. He might get more money, but he's not going to be on the fast track to a Hall of Fame career. He may lose out in the end, but he'll get paid I guess.

 

[Quackerjacked]

His argument is bullshit. Not one wr lines up at the traditional tight end spot ever. He's a tight end. The position is evolving and will have higher franchise tag price very soon if the trend continues. At the moment he has to spend a year without making ten million dollars.

 

[Thruthefog]

If he wins, it makes our first pick even worse.

 

[Quackerjacked]

Maybe his argument would be stronger if it centered on how he's never blocked anyone.

 

[gandydancer]

If he wins, it makes our first pick even worse.

The Lions first pick has to put up huge numbers from the slot first to matter.

Ebron puts up numbers to make a arguement, then the pick was great not worse.

Now as a rookie you have to produce to get big money in year 4-5...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If he wins, it makes our first pick even worse.

I think I've been the most critical of the Lions decision to draft a TE again in the 1st round, but even I couldn't make a comment like this.

If Ebron turns into a player who could be productive enough at the "TE" position to make an argument he deserves to be tagged as a WR -- the draft pick would be would be a tremendous success, as it means he is putting up monster numbers.

The only way the Ebron pick can become worse is if he can't catch a cold and he isn't the vertical threat everyone expects him to be, as the Lions already have multiple TE to run intermediate routes.

 

[Thruthefog]

Ebron puts up numbers to make a arguement, then the pick was great not worse.

It becomes worse because if he puts up the numbers, the Lions will have to pay him like a WR instead of a TE.

If Graham loses his case, the Lions can pay him like a TE.

 

[gandydancer]

It becomes worse because if he puts up the numbers, the Lions will have to pay him like a WR instead of a TE.

If Graham loses his case, the Lions can pay him like a TE.

I guess I am looking at it like the Fairley pick. Fact they are not picking up 5th year and he moves on in 2015 that pick becomes turrible.

I am not with you on Ebron. I just feel whoever the 1st round pick is you want success and be in a bad situation for resigning. Not like the Suh/Moobs/CJ when guys got money without proving their worth and cap hell.
You can hate the pick, don't wish for failure though...

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Who folds first? I think thats a pretty easy one to predict, it will be the Saints.

Graham won't likely win his appeal but thats not the end of his ability to get paid. While he only has until July 15th to get a new long term deal done he still isnt dead in the water on having to play under the franchise tag money.

Even after July 15 he can still sign a new deal, but it can only be a one year deal. Assuming he loses the appeal Graham and his agent can make it perfectly clear that he absolutely will not be reporting and wont be playing for a $7m deal. I dont think there is any way that the Saints will let much more than a few regular season games be played trying to bluff Graham into thinking they are truly prepared to go on without him for the season.

Graham has the leverage here, not the Saints. And his agent certainly knows just how easy it will be to reak havoc on the Saints just in trying to address their cap situation. Once that July 15 date passes the only thing they can sign Graham to is a one year deal. They know that as well so when they cave in they will have to have built in the extra cap space to accomodate paying him more $.

Simply tell the Saints to call when they are prepared to pay Graham $11m. WR franchise tag is $12.312, TE is $7.035. Graham should be willing to settle no lower than around $9.65m, the average of the two. At that number he is being paid an amount that would put him in the top 10 WR's in the league and it gives him incredible leverage going into next season as a FA once again.

Either he gets a new deal he is happy with or the Saints have to tag him again. Only under the new tag rules he will get 120% of his previous years salary, or close to $11.6m. He gets the WR type $ he wants.

The Saints would love to have him sign the franchise tag this year because they could just keep franchising him. Do you think they would really mind paying him $8.4m next year? That's still cheap in comparison to WR $. Even if they tagged him for a third year his cost would be $12.15m and still below the WR franchise tag value this year.

And like us, the Saints have cap issues. Their interests are much better served getting a new deal done with him. My bet is that happens no matter what the outcome of the appeal. There has to be a player that gets a new deal which moves the tag amounts upward for each position. For WR it was the completely idiotic deal the Cards gave Fitzgerald. That deal was a staggering premium over the next highest WR (I believe it was close to 50%). Graham will be the player that does it for TE's.

Why worry about Ebron now? It's not a problem for 5 years if he proves to be a great player.

 

[Thruthefog]

I guess I am looking at it like the Fairley pick. Fact they are not picking up 5th year and he moves on in 2015 that pick becomes turrible.

I am not with you on Ebron. I just feel whoever the 1st round pick is you want success and be in a bad situation for resigning. Not like the Suh/Moobs/CJ when guys got money without proving their worth and cap hell.
You can hate the pick, don't wish for failure though...

Where did I wish for failure? Gonna have to show me that one.

Doesn't make a difference what he does. If he's split out from the line all the time, James wins his case, and the Lions can forget paying him like a TE.

Then again, I may be giving 'the clown show' too much credit. I was thinking they were trying to find a playmaker for a discount.

On the bright side, at least the Saints are the guinea pigs for a change. Tired of the Lions getting fucked, then changing the rule so no one else gets fucked.