What is the bigger issue ?

[sublime4eva]

Offensive line has been neglected for far too long we need a overhaul except for LT and the defensive line has been poor I rarely see them collapse the pocket.

Tell me this, How is it you pay heavily for a 1st pick (Griffin) then do everything you can to invest in protecting that pick?
We have to have the dumbest organization in ALL of sports.

 

[sublime4eva]

just how is the o/line "neglected again ? they are a top run blocking unit and only 5 teams have had their qbs sacked less.

the offense has been top 5 2 years running and polumbus has allowed one sack all year long

the defense needs the attention

Are u kidding? Griffin constantly has guys in his face..maybe they're decent in run blocking but our line can't pass protect worth a damn, they never give our receivers any time to get separation alot of games and Griffin has no time time to read his progressions half the time, we can almost never have a drive without a penalty or sack or loss of yardage.

Our line sucks.

 

[sublime4eva]

just how is the o/line "neglected again ? they are a top run blocking unit and only 5 teams have had their qbs sacked less.

the offense has been top 5 2 years running and polumbus has allowed one sack all year long

the defense needs the attention

Also 14-0 at the the 4 or 5 yard line for a possible game changing TD and our right side let's Philly CRUSH Griffin for a sack and fumble? Guess RGIII should of felt that pressure huh? Our line failed again miserably.

 

[FLSkinsfan]

We really need a full offseason to tell where we are. Last year the Offense was totally different. We pushed the run and the play action off the run was run to perfection. This year we abandon the run too early. These last couple of games have been better, but RGIII is not playing the Fake on the Play action as well as he did last year. I think a lot of this has to do with the injury and not having the time to practice in the offseason. This poll is a little hard to pick. I think that it is bad play calling and defensive coaching, but the players are not executing the play to their best ability either. I do not want to see a lot of changes on the offense other then some depth at OL and another WR to stretch the field. On Defense I like what some of our young guys are doing and with the offense putting up more points we just need to find the replacement for LF and a couple of DB's for depth.

Other then the first two games of the year we have been in every game. Even Denver we had a chance, but let the 4th qtr get away from us. Last year was the same as this year except we made the plays when it counted most. This year it is just not happening. The last few games should be a test to see who is going to stay and what areas we need to work on.

 

[gkekoa]

Some of you don't deal in reality. Our OL isn't the problem. The statistics support that statement. Every QB gets pressured...except Manning last night. The reason...Manning gets rid of the ball when the backfoot his the ground. He made his presnap read and then he makes his throw. RG3 hasn't learned to make those reads and he still thinks he's ten times more athletic than everybody else. That's why he gets killed.

 

[j_y19]

GK, its not an either/or thing. Our defense is a huge problem and our first priority. But to say the OL isn't culpable in our inability to pocket pass isn't realistic, either. All of the points you raise about RG3's weakness in the pocket are valid. But they are also compounded by the fact that our interior OL in pocket protection routinely gets pushed back into RG3's face. There is no where for him to step up. We either have to stop calling these type of plays or we have to get better interior OL players that can hold their ground in the pocket. An upgrade a center or one of the guard positions has to be addressed this offseason along with RG3 working on pocket passing technique.

 

[Krusheasy]

Being a second year QB Griffin naturally needs a little longer to read his progressions. In an attempt to help Griffin with that Kyle has kept the offense simplified. But in doing so defenses are starting to recognize his tendencies. So Kyle either gives him more & Griffin struggles and he gets blamed, or keeps it simple & we continue on the path we're on ... because Griffin is not ready for more complex plays yet.

 

[gkekoa]

Jay, I'm not saying don't improve the line...I'm saying it's not all on the OL. Our OL is not a bad OL at all. It's an OL that has weaknesses, just like every other OL. Our QB has his weaknesses, just like every QB. My problem with RG3 right now is the lack of progress on things that can be got from the film room and practice. He does have a reason for his lack of progression and that is his leg. There are also psychological factors that are holding RG3 back right now and that's not on RG3. It's on human nature.

 

[j_y19]

GK, I think we are in agreement. Our passing game isn't working very well right now and there are multiple reasons. We need to try and address as many of them as we can this offseason, including technique and study work for RG3 and targeted upgrade of talent in our OL. Oh, we really need a #2 WR that can get separation quickly to help RG3 find open targets quicker as he does begin to go through his progressions.

 

[raptorlife4]

o-line shit RG3 hit almost every play

Wide recivers not good enough
Secondary is fucking horrible and gives up to many big plays at the wrong times.
Punter should have been cut in the first few weeks

 

[skinsdad62]

Also 14-0 at the the 4 or 5 yard line for a possible game changing TD and our right side let's Philly CRUSH Griffin for a sack and fumble? Guess RGIII should of felt that pressure huh? Our line failed again miserably.

what freaking team doesnt have break downs from time to time ?

geez the stats show the o/line is doing an ok job

i am not saying this is the hogs part 2 but they arent the "matador " o/line you make them out to be

all freaking qbs get hit and RG3 less the most

 

[gkekoa]

GK, I think we are in agreement. Our passing game isn't working very well right now and there are multiple reasons. We need to try and address as many of them as we can this offseason, including technique and study work for RG3 and targeted upgrade of talent in our OL. Oh, we really need a #2 WR that can get separation quickly to help RG3 find open targets quicker as he does begin to go through his progressions.

Our #2 WR isn't the problem either. Our OL is adequate. Our QB needs to learn the game...end of story. Let me ask you this. How often does Manning go to his #2 WR on a play? He makes a pre-snap read and if the defense responds how he predicted, he goes to the WR he intended to go with on his read. If the defense doesn't respond how he expected, he then goes to a secondary or tertiary receiver because he's already thought of that. That's what film study and familiarization with a playbook gets you. Being a QB is Manning's craft...it's Brady's craft. They make their presnap read and even try to manipulate the defense to go where they want them to open up their true target.

 

[Krusheasy]

...it's Brady's craft.

i miss your Brady avi

 

[j_y19]

Our #2 WR isn't the problem either. Our OL is adequate. Our QB needs to learn the game...end of story. Let me ask you this. How often does Manning go to his #2 WR on a play? He makes a pre-snap read and if the defense responds how he predicted, he goes to the WR he intended to go with on his read. If the defense doesn't respond how he expected, he then goes to a secondary or tertiary receiver because he's already thought of that. That's what film study and familiarization with a playbook gets you. Being a QB is Manning's craft...it's Brady's craft. They make their presnap read and even try to manipulate the defense to go where they want them to open up their true target.

So I guess we are not in 100% agreement. You are putting the entire blame, it appears, on RG3 and his weakness at pre reading the defense. It is a challenge for him, no doubt. But he has never had to do this before. In college, his offense was roll RG3 out, create mayhem in the defense while they tried to figure out if he was running or passing, and then find the open receiver in that mayhem. Last year, we basically did the same thing with play action and naked bootlegs. So this is the first time in his career he as been asked to do this. He needs to learn this and he will. But not in a season where he had no preseason or off season to work on the mechanics of this. You can watch film all you want, but until you experience it live behind the center, it doesn't start to click. I can watch tube videos all day long on how to perform open heart surgery. I can become very knowledgable on the steps, where to make the incision, the tools to use. But until I actually go into a cut a few open, I still don't know what its all really about. Hell, that's true with reading a defense. I can watch film and actually think I'm pretty good at it from my couch. But I hold no illusions that when the live ammo is flying, I could take that film study and apply it without a crap load of practice.

The facts are that RG3's usual number one read is garçon. Well, guess what? The defenses are doubling him, with a CB hitting him at the line and a safety behind. They are taking the quick hit away. We have no other WR that has the ability to beat a jam at the line and get open in 2-3 seconds. That is how long manning holds the ball. Why? Because his receivers can get open that fast. Ours can't. Reed almost always has to chip someone first before he goes out. Hank is just not it. Moss has disappeared. So who does he go to for this quick read? 2-3 seconds is all RG3 is getting on many pass plays before the pocket begins to collapse.

SO I agree that RG3 needs significant work on mechanics and study, as all rookie and 2nd year QBs do. But he also needs better support from his line and his WR corps.

 

[gkekoa]

i miss your Brady avi

I guess JUSTUS never learning it was to insult Brady and him insisting I was gay for having his picture as my avi were too much for me to bear.

 

[gkekoa]

So I guess we are not in 100% agreement. You are putting the entire blame, it appears, on RG3 and his weakness at pre reading the defense. It is a challenge for him, no doubt. But he has never had to do this before. In college, his offense was roll RG3 out, create mayhem in the defense while they tried to figure out if he was running or passing, and then find the open receiver in that mayhem. Last year, we basically did the same thing with play action and naked bootlegs. So this is the first time in his career he as been asked to do this. He needs to learn this and he will. But not in a season where he had no preseason or off season to work on the mechanics of this. You can watch film all you want, but until you experience it live behind the center, it doesn't start to click. I can watch tube videos all day long on how to perform open heart surgery. I can become very knowledgable on the steps, where to make the incision, the tools to use. But until I actually go into a cut a few open, I still don't know what its all really about. Hell, that's true with reading a defense. I can watch film and actually think I'm pretty good at it from my couch. But I hold no illusions that when the live ammo is flying, I could take that film study and apply it without a crap load of practice.

The facts are that RG3's usual number one read is garçon. Well, guess what? The defenses are doubling him, with a CB hitting him at the line and a safety behind. They are taking the quick hit away. We have no other WR that has the ability to beat a jam at the line and get open in 2-3 seconds. That is how long manning holds the ball. Why? Because his receivers can get open that fast. Ours can't. Reed almost always has to chip someone first before he goes out. Hank is just not it. Moss has disappeared. So who does he go to for this quick read? 2-3 seconds is all RG3 is getting on many pass plays before the pocket begins to collapse.

SO I agree that RG3 needs significant work on mechanics and study, as all rookie and 2nd year QBs do. But he also needs better support from his line and his WR corps.

I do put a lot of blame on RG3 but you and others may mistake that for a dislike or disapproval or RG3. I understand he's a second year player but I expect him to be fully immersed in our playbook. I believe RG3 is a very intelligent young man so I don't think it's unreasonable for him to know the playbook forward and backward. It is my observation that he doesn't. From there, film study and application to the other team's defense is achievable; however, I also realize this will lead to occasional mistakes. I'm fine with occasional mistakes but I'm not fine with him holding onto the ball because he still thinks he should be able to escape pockets by shear athleticism. He should understand this:

1) when things aren't going how you thought they would presnap and the play doesn't make sense, throw it away immediately after going quickly through your progressions.

2) when things aren't going how you thought they would presnap and there is a hole to run...be decisive and escape either to uncover one of your WRs or to gain yards yourself.


Manning's WRs don't frequently beat the jam. That's considered their weakness. He frequently throws to somebody well covered but he understands what he read and where he has to throw the football. This is what a back shoulder throw is for. That's something RG3 hasn't developed but that is no fault of his own. That is lack of experience and missing camp by injury.

I can forgive physical limitations because of his injury...I can forgive psychological limitations because of his injury...I cannot forgive lack of study.

 

[skinsdad62]

I do put a lot of blame on RG3 but you and others may mistake that for a dislike or disapproval or RG3. I understand he's a second year player but I expect him to be fully immersed in our playbook. I believe RG3 is a very intelligent young man so I don't think it's unreasonable for him to know the playbook forward and backward. It is my observation that he doesn't. From there, film study and application to the other team's defense is achievable; however, I also realize this will lead to occasional mistakes. I'm fine with occasional mistakes but I'm not fine with him holding onto the ball because he still thinks he should be able to escape pockets by shear athleticism. He should understand this:

1) when things aren't going how you thought they would presnap and the play doesn't make sense, throw it away immediately after going quickly through your progressions.

2) when things aren't going how you thought they would presnap and there is a hole to run...be decisive and escape either to uncover one of your WRs or to gain yards yourself.


Manning's WRs don't frequently beat the jam. That's considered their weakness. He frequently throws to somebody well covered but he understands what he read and where he has to throw the football. This is what a back shoulder throw is for. That's something RG3 hasn't developed but that is no fault of his own. That is lack of experience and missing camp by injury.

I can forgive physical limitations because of his injury...I can forgive psychological limitations because of his injury...I cannot forgive lack of study.

i dont believe it is lack of study . i believe it is not being able to take what you learned from film and applying them in practice(TC and Preseason )

you were in the military . part of rifle marksmanship is study , knowing the wind , where its coming from , how to calculate the effects of it and factoring the rotation of the earth and the specs of the weapon . you can study it , you can read up on it you can look at film on how its done right and how its done wrong .
but until you do the hands on practical you still wont be good at it you and i have no idea on what he did in the off season when it comes to film study i am sure he put the work in