Welcome Back Kris Versteeg

[averagejoe]

we will eventually lose out on a cheap great player.

Not necessarily. Bowman has done a good job of bringing in cheap talent. (Trading cam barker for leddy. Brining in hanzus.) The problem is as the hawks win and the cheap talent contributes, then it gets more expensive to keep 'em.

 

[HockeyDoug]

The Hawks tend to overrate their own prospects.

I think every fanbase overrates prospects.

 

[HockeyDoug]

My only concern with Kris Versteeg is that he is coming off a torn ACL last season.

Mine too. If he struggles or doesn't give himself a successful lobotomy, Q benches him and that's that.

I hate that once again we giveup on to upper level prospects to do this deal.

Olsen can't be trusted with the puck against a forecheck and he's not quick enough to maintain coverage once he has to turn around a couple times in the zone. There's no place for him in a puck possession system imo. He might be a bottom pair type in a couple years, but from what I saw of him live, he looked like his ceiling might be a 7 or 8 at best in the next few years. Maybe he's better in a simplified N-S game. Hayes is a long time away from taking the next step. He might be a quality player down the road. His spot is on the 2nd line wing and with Bickell, Saad, TT, Versteeg (now), he's not going to get a shot at that spot for at least 3 more years. He's not suited to the 4th line without a playmaker and not good enough defensively to be a 3rd line player imo. He's probably going to have a good career, but if you have the chance to land a top 9 veteran type for 2.2 x 3, you take the chance

but bickell and buff were not either until they were given a solid chance not just a game here or a game there.

Bickell is a very good example of the risk. It took him quite a few years to get to the point where he's almost a 20 goal guy and a fixture in the top 9. Hayes might make it there but there's no window for him, Bickell may have been moved out to under the same circumstances and it still would have been the right thing to do for a team in a window. Buff was/is a shooter, he's very unique player dependent on others to get him space, he didn't need the development time because his game really didn't have anywhere to go unlike a Bickell or Hayes type. Buff "the power forward" is largely a myth, he never did anything against a legitimate top pair shutdown forward, even in 2010. Hayes would probably peak as a power forward in a similar way, we haven't seen Hayes be able to take on good physical dmen yet but he's excellent against weak pairs. Tough to count on a guy like that for a matchup since he might be a liability the other way.

 

[HockeyDoug]

I love the trade, Versteeg, if close to healthy, brings back much of the speed aggressiveness on the puck and the forecheck that was lost with some of the players Chicago lost in the offseason. He has plenty of holes in his game but we're seeing those mistakes with the rookies and young players already, so I welcome Ver-Beauty back. I'm a big fan at 2.2. x 3. We had strong reason to believe they were going to get another vet forward, I can't imagine they would have been able to do any better for that price tag. Thumbs up to Stanbo. I hope Versteeg straightens himself out and gets back into the fold quickly. First look tonight, I'm genuinely excited about the pickup, wouldn't have imagined they would have been able to get a player of that quality for that price only for prospects they weren't going to be leaning on anytime soon.

 

[HockeyDoug]

The problem is as the hawks win and the cheap talent contributes, then it gets more expensive to keep 'em.

Amen, that's why I really dig that they get a top 9 for 2.2. through 2016.

 

[HockeyDoug]

Dale Tallon keeps ties to his roots and eventually is gonna get some great players that cant find the ice with the hawks.

As long as he's taking half the salary on good NHLers, I can live with that.

 

[gmalis1]

I think every fanbase overrates prospects.

Totally agree. Hayes and Olson had a chance to shine with the Hawks, whether in preseason or even during the season as occasional replacements for injured players.

Neither one stood out when they had the chance. The idea that "Oh, they're in the Hawks AFL affiliate, therefore they're good" mentality isn't very good.

You give chances to players that earn it. StanB and the Hawks scouts know how to do it. They're not stupid. But falling in love with your prospects is just as bad as playing them at the NHL level when they are obviously not ready for prime time.

Hayes might have been a serviceable fourth liner, aka a Bryan Bollig type without the intimidator factor. Mind you I said Bryan Bollig...not Bryan Bickell. But fourth liners are a dime a dozen in the NHL...which is a reason that Bollig even plays. He's solid defensively and he has added a teeny bit of offense to his game. Hayes probably has a little more offensive upside than Bollig, but playing on the fourth line...uh, probably not.

Olson had numerous chances to crack the top 6 dman position. He couldn't do it. Besides, the Hawks have their eyes on Clendening as next up from Rockford, as he had sped past Olson as the main dman there.

Hey, even Smith and Pirri are still "on probation" with the Hawks as to staying with the team for the remainder of the season.

I'm not saying you trade away the farm for an aging veteran, but giving up two minor leaguers who may or may not ever make it to the NHL in return for a guy who is still young, knows the system, loves being here and fills the HUGE void as a third line right winger isn't a bad trade...and the Panthers eat half his salary for the next three years.

I like this move.

 

[gmalis1]

Besides, if Dale Tallon is such a great talent evaluator who "built" the Hawks nucleus, they why are the Panthers so pathetic?

 

[Baseballnut77]

Besides, if Dale Tallon is such a great talent evaluator who "built" the Hawks nucleus, they why are the Panthers so pathetic?

Seriously? With the amount of dumb things said from time to time this one may rank in the top 3. The hawks were bad for several seasons until talon got the team built. To say what you said is short-sighted and idiotic. period.

 

[gmalis1]

Seriously? With the amount of dumb things said from time to time this one may rank in the top 3. The hawks were bad for several seasons until talon got the team built. To say what you said is short-sighted and idiotic. period.

I'm talking about the Panthers...here and now. Not the 2008-2009-2010 Blackhawks.

We can get into a philosophical discussion on who REALLY built those Blackhawks teams...and you might be correct as to Dale Tallon having a large amount of input into that. But he also screwed up the whole contract tender situation to his own restricted free agents that cost the Hawks dearly and also put them in "salary cap hell".

I'm talking about how bad the Panthers are...NOW. If not for the Sabres, the Panthers would be the worst team in the NHL for the second or third year in a row. And it's not like Tallon has just been brought into the fold. He's been at the helm for three years now. You should start to see some progress after that time frame.

So, argue all you want. There's no disputing that the Panthers are horrific in the NHL, with no improvement in sight or in the future.

Given my choice, I'll take Stan Bowman (and of course Scotty) over Tallon any day of the week when it comes to drafting and evaluating talent.

And my question still stands...why ARE the Panthers so bad with Tallon as their GM?

 

[anotheridiot]

Given my choice, I'll take Stan Bowman (and of course Scotty) over Tallon any day of the week when it comes to drafting and evaluating talent.

I thought you have been saying how the Hawks prospects are not as good as everyone thinks they are.

What prospects and talent evaluations do you give them all the credit for?

Traded for the D men, traded away their D men picks. Traded for Hayes, traded away hayes. Passed over Shaw the first draft cup year, finally took a flier on him in the fifth round. Traded for Goaltender backups, Sharp and Hossa were traded for, Handzous, traded for Leddy.

Who was drafted by Tallon on this team? Crow, Keith, Seabrook, Kane, Toews, Bickel, Hammer, Ben Smith. Isnt the only player drafted by Bowman Pirri? Bollig was signed as a free agent. I know the future seems bright, but those are all guys you dont see ready so its hard to say that Bowmans have drafted better than Tallon, Tallon has been trying to do it with draft while signing enough vets to stay at the bottom end of the salary cap at the forced minimum.

 

[gmalis1]

I thought you have been saying how the Hawks prospects are not as good as everyone thinks they are.

What prospects and talent evaluations do you give them all the credit for?

Traded for the D men, traded away their D men picks. Traded for Hayes, traded away hayes. Passed over Shaw the first draft cup year, finally took a flier on him in the fifth round. Traded for Goaltender backups, Sharp and Hossa were traded for, Handzous, traded for Leddy.

Who was drafted by Tallon on this team? Crow, Keith, Seabrook, Kane, Toews, Bickel, Hammer, Ben Smith. Isnt the only player drafted by Bowman Pirri? Bollig was signed as a free agent. I know the future seems bright, but those are all guys you dont see ready so its hard to say that Bowmans have drafted better than Tallon, Tallon has been trying to do it with draft while signing enough vets to stay at the bottom end of the salary cap at the forced minimum.

But after three years as GM, wouldn't one expect to see SOME improvement in a team run by Dale Tallon? I DID say that Tallon was part of the success of who the Hawks are now. I'm not discounting what he did for the team. But he's not the only reason. The Hawks pretty much lucked into the Kane/Toews drafting. And there are other scouts on the team that contribute their hard work.

But if Tallon is such a genius, why hasn't there been improvement in his Florida team? Except for the fact that it's Florida and no one really cares about hockey there anyway, if the Hawks were as bad as the Panthers (flashback to 10-15 years ago), Hawks fans would be up in arms (or just become apathetic, which they did).

As you can tell, I'm not a Dale Tallon GM fan. After a while, some of your high draft picks have to pan out and make your team better. So far, I'm not seeing it.

 

[anotheridiot]

Floridas starting line against the hawks were barely out of diapers. I think 18, 20 and 21. Their system is pretty decent now and even the Hawks did not show enough improvement to keep him here in his time frame. We see what he was able to build once. I dont know alot about their system, but they only have three prospects over the age of 27.

If they dont keep him in florida, they will still end up having a really good team, but when you have to meet minimum salary cap and keep the likes of Soup on the team, you gotta continue playing guys you really dont want. When they are able to start extending some of their young players instead of paying players on other teams or salary cap fillers and get their guys on the ice, we will know what kind of team they have. I mean he moved Versteeg to get ice time for his youths. We bring in vets to keep ice time away from ours.

Dont know enough about it, but little bowman was not hired for what he could do, it was because dad was coming along too. So who knows which team is drafting better when its taking our guys 4-5 years to get to the nhl while Florida is already got theirs on their roster.

 

[Baseballnut77]

First of all Tallon in his 3 seasons has already taken a division once. He took a bad team and dismantled it and started the build. He has already landed some top-flight prospects that are up and playing. Secondly he has kept the team at the cap-floor despite the Campbell contract leaving him the ability to add top talent as soon as the kids are ready and that could happen as soon as next year. Finally unlike bowman (who I have nothing against and don't believe he has done a bad job, just not a great job) he wasn't handed a loaded team with a loaded farm. Tallon had neither and seems to be doing much the same thing he did in Chicago. And sorry the hawks were not built in 3 years as it was closer to 6 or seven when you really look at the team.