Week 4: Bears vs Lions GAME THREAD

[beardown07]

Bears next QB...???

The pressers would somehow be more annoying...

 

[anotheridiot]

I watched him play that game in Philly. It was... laughably bad. I'm also confused about what you meant with the Bridgewater paragraph.

Also, why should the term "franchise QB" cease to exist because Jay didn't wind up being one? That makes no sense.

There were plenty of scouts that did not think Bridgewater had a pro NFL arm, especially considering they were going to be playing outdoors in Minnesota, back in the conditions that had them decide to build a dome. They forgot to measure the intangibles that gave that team a pulse.

I dont know if Bridgewater will ever return, especially if Bradford leads them to a deep playoff run, but is Bradford considered a Franchise Quarterback? Why is the mindset that each nfl team needs a franchise QB, someone you do not allow any competition against, look for short term replacements if they miss a few games, Look back at the past super bowl winners. Was Russell Wilson a franchise QB, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, MArk Rypien, Jim McMahon? when did it become a necessity to pay a guy as a franchise guy who never even had a deep playoff run? Superbowls need to make Franchise Quarterbacks, not paydays when Brock Osweiller gets 18 million per year. The current poster boy for "franchise QB" is tom Brady, who came from the 6th round, beat out solid starters and earned his title, even though he is only 4-2 in the big game. Sounds like a course to find your own franchise guy, not pay someone who another team decided was not a franchise guy.

 

[beardown07]

There were plenty of scouts that did not think Bridgewater had a pro NFL arm, especially considering they were going to be playing outdoors in Minnesota, back in the conditions that had them decide to build a dome. They forgot to measure the intangibles that gave that team a pulse.

I dont know if Bridgewater will ever return, especially if Bradford leads them to a deep playoff run, but is Bradford considered a Franchise Quarterback? Why is the mindset that each nfl team needs a franchise QB, someone you do not allow any competition against, look for short term replacements if they miss a few games, Look back at the past super bowl winners. Was Russell Wilson a franchise QB, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, MArk Rypien, Jim McMahon? when did it become a necessity to pay a guy as a franchise guy who never even had a deep playoff run? Superbowls need to make Franchise Quarterbacks, not paydays when Brock Osweiller gets 18 million per year. The current poster boy for "franchise QB" is tom Brady, who came from the 6th round, beat out solid starters and earned his title, even though he is only 4-2 in the big game. Sounds like a course to find your own franchise guy, not pay someone who another team decided was not a franchise guy.

Brady is pretty rare, and personally, I'll take Bellicheck over him, but nonetheless, a 6th round QB, 99.9% of the time ends up as NOTHING. It's not as if Brady was highly touted out of college. He was derpy af.

You don't have to look any further than our own Bears history as to why teams seek the Franchise guy. There is a reason so many Bears fans were stoked about getting Cutler, and why so many wanted him to succeed. After 20 years and 20 some-odd of the worst fucking QBs in the history of the game, going after Cutler made perfect sense.

It's funny that you mention Jim McMahon, as he was DEFINITELY drafted to be a Franchise guy...Highly touted out of college as a two-time All-American...5th overall selection...I'd say that meets the qualifications of the Franchise label.

 

[beardown07]

And for the record, Teddy Bridgewater has done exactly NOTHING so far, but inherit a great defense, o-line and maybe the best RB to ever play.

I am extremely unimpressed by Bridgewater, and I think Bradford is proving me right.

 

[anotheridiot]

And for the record, Teddy Bridgewater has done exactly NOTHING so far, but inherit a great defense, o-line and maybe the best RB to ever play.

I am extremely unimpressed by Bridgewater, and I think Bradford is proving me right.

Its just an example of players that were not truly chosen as a franchise guy.

Go back 10 years ago and these top picked quarterbacks were getting 50 million dollar signing bonus filled rookie contracts without playing a single down of NFL football.

This year you have Prescott earning his keep as an NFL quarterback. ITs not just the top picks that are doing well. Sure brady was the 6th round guy, but Wilson was the third round guy that beat out the next franchise guy who held Favres jock. I cant say I can remember the last real QB competition that was held in Chicago, I would just welcome one and choose the better player without seeing check stubs.

 

[richig07]

Its just an example of players that were not truly chosen as a franchise guy.

Go back 10 years ago and these top picked quarterbacks were getting 50 million dollar signing bonus filled rookie contracts without playing a single down of NFL football.

This year you have Prescott earning his keep as an NFL quarterback. ITs not just the top picks that are doing well. Sure brady was the 6th round guy, but Wilson was the third round guy that beat out the next franchise guy who held Favres jock. I cant say I can remember the last real QB competition that was held in Chicago, I would just welcome one and choose the better player without seeing check stubs.

2008... Grossman vs Orton was a completely open competition in camp/pre-season. Orton, the 4th round pick. Beat out Rex, the 1st round pick.

Still don't get your point... "franchise QB's shouldn't be all about where they're taken in the draft!"... No shit. Thanks.

 

[averagejoe]

and maybe the best RB to ever play

Bite your tongue.

 

[averagejoe]

This year you have Prescott earning his keep as an NFL quarterback. ITs not just the top picks that are doing well.

Prescott and Wentz are doing well - for now. But before we anoint them into the HOF after 4 weeks of work, keep in mind that plenty of QB impressed in a "snapshot" of time.

• Bridgewater was mentioned... in 2014 he was showing signs of improvement and was hyped for a breakout year in 2015 under Norv Turner's tutelage. Instead he finished in the lower bottom half of the NFL rankings.
• In 2013 after Vick got hurt, Nick Foles came in and was incredible. 27 passing TD vs 2 INT. Foles was all the rage heading into 2014... after 8 games 13 TD vs 10 INT, he broke his collarbone and has been riding benches ever since.
• 2012's Colin Kaepernick stepped in for a concussed Alex Smith and passed for 1800+ yards, rushed for another 400+ and had 15 TD vs 3 INT in just seven starts. Great things were expected for him 2013 but he was merely average. And has struggled just to be the starter ever since.
• Matt Cassel has been a train wreck outside of Foxborough.

Is this what awaits Wentz and Prescott for 2017? (Or maybe even the tail end of this year?) Time will tell.

I guess my point is that a franchise QB is not measured by a few games. Or even 1 season. And he certainly can't do it all on his own. You look at franchise QB that withstood the test of time, and they all have respected, knowledgeable coaches, they're surrounded by quality personnel, and the even if certain pieces move on, the system stays the same to feature their strengths. And that's just scratching the surface of the issue.

 

[richig07]

Prescott and Wentz are doing well - for now. But before we anoint them into the HOF after 4 weeks of work, keep in mind that plenty of QB impressed in a "snapshot" of time.

• Bridgewater was mentioned... in 2014 he was showing signs of improvement and was hyped for a breakout year in 2015 under Norv Turner's tutelage. Instead he finished in the lower bottom half of the NFL rankings.
• In 2013 after Vick got hurt, Nick Foles came in and was incredible. 27 passing TD vs 2 INT. Foles was all the rage heading into 2014... after 8 games 13 TD vs 10 INT, he broke his collarbone and has been riding benches ever since.
• 2012's Colin Kaepernick stepped in for a concussed Alex Smith and passed for 1800+ yards, rushed for another 400+ and had 15 TD vs 3 INT in just seven starts. Great things were expected for him 2013 but he was merely average. And has struggled just to be the starter ever since.
• Matt Cassel has been a train wreck outside of Foxborough.

Is this what awaits Wentz and Prescott for 2017? (Or maybe even the tail end of this year?) Time will tell.

I guess my point is that a franchise QB is not measured by a few games. Or even 1 season. And he certainly can't do it all on his own. You look at franchise QB that withstood the test of time, and they all have respected, knowledgeable coaches, they're surrounded by quality personnel, and the even if certain pieces move on, the system stays the same to feature their strengths. And that's just scratching the surface of the issue.

Matt Cassel had his best season in KC... Just for the record.

Also, Prescott is simply managing football games. He is a pretty subpar passer. His run game and O-line is dong far and away most of the leg work.

 

[averagejoe]

Matt Cassel had his best season in KC... Just for the record.

Was comparable and noteworthy to the season he had in NE. (I had reservations about throwing him on my list.) But in the end, the KC fans applauded as he lay concussed cause they wanted him off the field so badly. Ethics aside from that incident, he just didn't amount to the franchise QB scenario being discussed.

 

[beardown07]

Bite your tongue.

I was just trying to make a point.

 

[beardown07]

Matt Cassel had his best season in KC... Just for the record.

Also, Prescott is simply managing football games. He is a pretty subpar passer. His run game and O-line is dong far and away most of the leg work.

He's accurate inside the the numbers. Outside the numbers, he is HORRIBLE.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

There were plenty of scouts that did not think Bridgewater had a pro NFL arm, especially considering they were going to be playing outdoors in Minnesota, back in the conditions that had them decide to build a dome. They forgot to measure the intangibles that gave that team a pulse.

I dont know if Bridgewater will ever return, especially if Bradford leads them to a deep playoff run, but is Bradford considered a Franchise Quarterback? Why is the mindset that each nfl team needs a franchise QB, someone you do not allow any competition against, look for short term replacements if they miss a few games, Look back at the past super bowl winners. Was Russell Wilson a franchise QB, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, MArk Rypien, Jim McMahon? when did it become a necessity to pay a guy as a franchise guy who never even had a deep playoff run? Superbowls need to make Franchise Quarterbacks, not paydays when Brock Osweiller gets 18 million per year. The current poster boy for "franchise QB" is tom Brady, who came from the 6th round, beat out solid starters and earned his title, even though he is only 4-2 in the big game. Sounds like a course to find your own franchise guy, not pay someone who another team decided was not a franchise guy.

There are lots of things in this that you're not taking into consideration: (*such is your way)
1. Paycheck: It's the price of business. Simple as that. With the lack of quality QB's in the NFL- the players and agents KNOW that even a middling QB can request a higher salary than you think they deserve. AND teams pay it, because they have to if they want that guy, if they don't someone else will. It's supply and demand. IF there were more quality QB's these fringe starters or guys that have limited starts with some success wouldn't be getting the dollars they are.
2. The "Franchise QB"- while we all want that term to mean multiple SB wins and yearly playoff trips- in many cases it simply means that the franchise has made a commitment to that player.
3. QB Competitions: knowing the playbook, timing w/receivers, muscle memory, cadence, trust... ALL takes TIME. You need to give the guy a chance to gain all that. IT'S NOT the same as other positions. And young QB's need more time...especially when they are adjusting to the speed of the NFL game. And this also goes hand in hand with the commitment to the player. This is also why you see backups regress after a few successful games.

 

[anotheridiot]

Prescott and Wentz are doing well - for now. But before we anoint them into the HOF after 4 weeks of work, keep in mind that plenty of QB impressed in a "snapshot" of time.

• Bridgewater was mentioned... in 2014 he was showing signs of improvement and was hyped for a breakout year in 2015 under Norv Turner's tutelage. Instead he finished in the lower bottom half of the NFL rankings.
• In 2013 after Vick got hurt, Nick Foles came in and was incredible. 27 passing TD vs 2 INT. Foles was all the rage heading into 2014... after 8 games 13 TD vs 10 INT, he broke his collarbone and has been riding benches ever since.
• 2012's Colin Kaepernick stepped in for a concussed Alex Smith and passed for 1800+ yards, rushed for another 400+ and had 15 TD vs 3 INT in just seven starts. Great things were expected for him 2013 but he was merely average. And has struggled just to be the starter ever since.
• Matt Cassel has been a train wreck outside of Foxborough.

Is this what awaits Wentz and Prescott for 2017? (Or maybe even the tail end of this year?) Time will tell.

I guess my point is that a franchise QB is not measured by a few games. Or even 1 season. And he certainly can't do it all on his own. You look at franchise QB that withstood the test of time, and they all have respected, knowledgeable coaches, they're surrounded by quality personnel, and the even if certain pieces move on, the system stays the same to feature their strengths. And that's just scratching the surface of the issue.

Nobody is annointing them, but they are having the opportunity to earn the title of franchise quarterback. Look at Denver too, Paxon Lynch was supposed to take over, but Trevor Northwestern, picked in the 7th round beat him out. Thats what competition gives you.

Kasper-dick did earn his spot in San Fran, got paid, got lost. Shows he did not have it between the ears.

My problem from day 1 was the bears chose to take a franchise quarterback away from a team that was used to being run by one of the best in history because Denver did not think he had what it took. That is why ours was not an earned title. Yeah, he blew up stats, mostly held by Eric Kramer, who played here a few years since a franchise QB was never deemed a necessity from a team that always had a franchise middle linebacker.

 

[richig07]

Was comparable and noteworthy to the season he had in NE. (I had reservations about throwing him on my list.) But in the end, the KC fans applauded as he lay concussed cause they wanted him off the field so badly. Ethics aside from that incident, he just didn't amount to the franchise QB scenario being discussed.

My point was, that he was not a total dumpster fire outside of NE, as you pointed out.

11-5 record. AFC West title. Pro Bowl Selection. 27 TD's 7 INT's 93.0 QB Rating

Pretty solid. Just saying... it clearly wasn't JUST the NE system he could succeed in.

 

[richig07]

He's accurate inside the the numbers. Outside the numbers, he is HORRIBLE.

I am not saying he's a good QB.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Nobody is annointing them, but they are having the opportunity to earn the title of franchise quarterback. Look at Denver too, Paxon Lynch was supposed to take over, but Trevor Northwestern, picked in the 7th round beat him out. Thats what competition gives you.

Kasper-dick did earn his spot in San Fran, got paid, got lost. Shows he did not have it between the ears.

My problem from day 1 was the bears chose to take a franchise quarterback away from a team that was used to being run by one of the best in history because Denver did not think he had what it took. That is why ours was not an earned title. Yeah, he blew up stats, mostly held by Eric Kramer, who played here a few years since a franchise QB was never deemed a necessity from a team that always had a franchise middle linebacker.

1. Paxon Lynch wasn't SUPPOSED to be anything until he was ready. He is a first round pick and should get every opportunity to play in the future.
Trevor Siemian had the extra year in the system and has a full year to be acclimated to the speed of the game. That's not "competition"...that's simply a guy with a leg up.

2. "Denver did not think he had what it took." you're going with that? Really? Nope. Denver took Cutler because of his physical skills and talent... Their insane rookie HC thought he knew better and wanted Tim Tebow. How'd that work out?

3. Not an Earned Title? You clearly have forgotten the litany of pathetic QB's that have been in Chicago prior to Jay. They brought him in as a galvanizing stalwart... So we weren't searching for the next guy every 2 years... He's EARNED every freaking Bears major QB record. But that's not enough for you? It's funny you used the word "earned" he's done that in spades.

4."a franchise QB was never deemed a necessity from a team that always had a franchise middle linebacker." Thats' utter Bullshit. EVERY TEAM regardless of talent elsewhere WANTS a "franchise QB" There isn't a single team in the history of football that would say...Nah, we have a LB we DON'T NEED a quarterback. You're batshit crazy.

 

[richig07]

My problem from day 1 was the bears chose to take a franchise quarterback away from a team that was used to being run by one of the best in history because Denver did not think he had what it took.

Oh, look... AI living in his own world again. What a surprise!

Its like you just invent story lines in your head and then forget you just made them up.

I'll NEVER forget that line all the way back in 2013 when you said Cutler was seen walking around without a walking boot after his ankle injury, when it was in fact reported he was in a F'ING HARD CAST. Lol, what a joke... That will never be forgotten.

Jay had differences with McDaniels and the Broncos. Period. He was coming off of a pro bowl season in Denver. They had no desire to trade him until his rift with McDaniels surfaced. He was getting Elway comparisons over there in 07 and 08.

 

[anotheridiot]

Oh, look... AI living in his own world again. What a surprise!

Its like you just invent story lines in your head and then forget you just made them up.

I'll NEVER forget that line all the way back in 2013 when you said Cutler was seen walking around without a walking boot after his ankle injury, when it was in fact reported he was in a F'ING HARD CAST. Lol, what a joke... That will never be forgotten.

Jay had differences with McDaniels and the Broncos. Period. He was coming off of a pro bowl season in Denver. They had no desire to trade him until his rift with McDaniels surfaced. He was getting Elway comparisons over there in 07 and 08.

I guess you are living in your world, when you talked to McDaniels and the entire Bronco organization about Jay.

You just do not trade a guy like that unless you do not want him in your organization. They took Kyle fucking Orton for him along with first round picks.

 

[anotheridiot]

3. Not an Earned Title? You clearly have forgotten the litany of pathetic QB's that have been in Chicago prior to Jay. They brought him in as a galvanizing stalwart... So we weren't searching for the next guy every 2 years... He's EARNED every freaking Bears major QB record. But that's not enough for you? It's funny you used the word "earned" he's done that in spades.

I hear the guy that lost to Hussein Bolt in each of the past olympics is going to run in the special olympics next time around. I bet he breaks every record they hold. Probably in record time.

You realize some of the records Jay has broken was by a guy that played a total of 44 games here?