Vegas Odds To Win NCAA Tourney 2018

[Great Dayne]

Did you read my post, at all? It was much tougher to make the NCAA Tournament back then, and the ACC was a monster.

A couple of additional points:

1.) I don't have a precise date, but the NCAA Tournament didn't become as big of a deal as it is now until sometime in the 1950s.
2.) I made this point before but since you completely ignored it, I'll make it again. Only the conference champion got a bid to the NCAA Tournament until 1975. From 1975 to 1980, only the top two teams from each conference got to go. Duke had to deal with UNC's Dean Smith, UNC's Frank McGuire, NCSU's Norm Sloan (aka, the guy that ENDED UCLA's national title streak), NCSU's Everett Case (the guy that practically invented basketball in the state of North Carolina). South Carolina also become a big threat when they hired McGuire in the late 60s, early 70s. Wake under Bones McKinney and Murray Greason were a threat as well. Maryland had Bud McKillian, who was solid.
3.) Pre-K, UNC had 7 Sweet 16's, while Duke had 6. By 1980, UNC had been coached by two members of the CBB HOF (for their contributions as coaches) for a total of 30+ seasons.
4.) I'm not debating that Duke, pre-K, is the Duke of today. My entire argument is that Duke has legitimately always been good at basketball, with the exception of the early 70s. Expecting them to go away once K retires is quite naive.

No matter how you slice it 12 years straight from the late 60's and 70's with making no NCAA appearances is bad yet you called them a great team before coach K. Since 1950 they had 5 sweet 16 appearances which is 1 appearance out of every 6 years. That's awful even if it was more "difficult" as you say.

They had several nice years but never had a string of consistent final four teams. At the very least you can accept the fact that this wasn't a great basketball program before coach K. You're the first person I've ever seen say that.

 

[douggie]

Making the sweet 16 one out of every 6 years isn't a great basketball program. I mean they went 12 years without even making the NCAA tournament. That's a bad basketball team dude.

Coach K put them on the map which is why their top 10 teams and players all come from under the coach K era. The man is Duke basketball.

In the end they were bad without him minus several anomaly years. Now without him in the future you have no idea what they will be like since you don't know who the replacement will be.

Duke has had a great history of players and coaches before Coach K arrived. Chuck Daly and Hubie Brown were assistants under Vic Bubas who coached Bob Verga, Art Heyman, and Jeff Mullins. Bucky Waters coached Olympian Tate Armstrong, who was the best pure shooter I've ever seen play at Duke, except for J.J. Redick.

Bill Foster went to a Title game in 1978 and coached Mike Gminski, Jim Spanarkel, Gene Banks, Bob Bender, who coached at the University of Washington, Ever heard of these coaches and players? None of these guys has been at Duke over 30 years like K, so yes Coach K is Duke, but before him arriving Duke was still a pretty darn good program.

 

[Hitman Hart]

No matter how you slice it 12 years straight from the late 60's and 70's with making no NCAA appearances is bad yet you called them a great team before coach K. Since 1950 they had 5 sweet 16 appearances which is 1 appearance out of every 6 years. That's awful even if it was more "difficult" as you say.

They had several nice years but never had a string of consistent final four teams. At the very least you can accept the fact that this wasn't a great basketball program before coach K. You're the first person I've ever seen say that.

They had 4 FF's before 1980, which is something only 8 schools could have said. so yes, they were a great team before K came in.

As far as your obsession with their Sweet 16 appearances go, the circumstances that exist now, didn't exist back then.

and you claim that Duke never had a string of consistent FF teams before K came in, and that simply isn't true.

Duke had three FF appearances between 1963 and 1966. Duke was a very good to great basketball program before K. The fact that you haven't seen anyone say that before, just tells me that you aren't speaking hoops with people that have respect for history.

You still haven't been able to answer if Duke was so bad before K came in, why were they close to having the same number of Sweet 16's as UNC (7), Kansas (8), or Indiana (9)?

 

[Great Dayne]

They had 4 FF's before 1980, which is something only 8 schools could have said. so yes, they were a great team before K came in.

As far as your obsession with their Sweet 16 appearances go, the circumstances that exist now, didn't exist back then.

and you claim that Duke never had a string of consistent FF teams before K came in, and that simply isn't true.

Duke had three FF appearances between 1963 and 1966. Duke was a very good to great basketball program before K. The fact that you haven't seen anyone say that before, just tells me that you aren't speaking hoops with people that have respect for history.

You still haven't been able to answer if Duke was so bad before K came in, why were they close to having the same number of Sweet 16's as UNC (7), Kansas (8), or Indiana (9)?

Close but no cigar. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.

no NCAA appearances for 12 seasons is bad no matter what you say about the competition

A great three year run doesn't make a great team for all those other seasons of mediocrity.

Coach K is and will always be Duke basketball. They weren't even close to his level without him before and won't after.

Next

 

[Hitman Hart]

Close but no cigar. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.

no NCAA appearances for 12 seasons is bad no matter what you say about the competition

A great three year run doesn't make a great team for all those other seasons of mediocrity.

Coach K is and will always be Duke basketball. They weren't even close to his level without him before and won't after.

Next

Yeah, this just isn't a very intelligent opinion.

Duke had 10 conference regular season titles and 11 conference tournament titles before K came in, and you think they were a nothing program before him.

I'm eager to hear your opinion about Michigan State and Izzo.

 

[Edonidd]

All this Wisconsin and Duke prattle is pointless anyway. This is MSU's year.

 

[douggie]

All this Wisconsin and Duke prattle is pointless anyway. This is MSU's year.

How'd they look against Ferris State? 80-72 Final?

 

[Edonidd]

How'd they look against Ferris State? 80-72 Final?

State let them win so they could have that experience. Great character guys we have here.

 

[Edonidd]

State let them win so they could have that experience. Great character guys we have here.

Oh, wait we won? I read your post wrong. What i meant was we let them stay close so they wouldnt feel embarrassed. We were never in trouble. Still high character guys though.

 

[douggie]

Oh, wait we won? I read your post wrong. What i meant was we let them stay close so they wouldnt feel embarrassed. We were never in trouble. Still high character guys though.

I hear ya. Izzo was just testing them.