Game Thread: UW @ AZ

[CatsTopPac]

NBA & ABA Players Who Attended University of Washington | Basketball-Reference.com

I have Brockman, Conroy, Denton, Hawes, Holiday, Jones, Pondexter, Robinson, Ross, Roy, Thomas, and Wroten. Roy and Robinson were drafted in 2006, and everyone else came after. That's what I meant by 12 in the last 8 years.

And I'm not saying that individually that he hasn't helped them a great deal; but collectively, he can't get a very talented team to win in March. I completely agree that he put UW on the map of CBB after decades and decades of mediocre (at best) basketball. And I do think he is a good recruiter and a good developer of talent. Pulling UW out from where they were is certainly a great feat. But he cannot win away from Hec Ed. I don't want to take everything away from him. He has gone to a few Sweet 16s. He won the Pac Tourney in LA, and he has won in Tucson, but he cannot do it with any consistency. By my count, other than his first year in Seattle (because it was pretty bad), Romar is 75-85 away from Hec Ed. And some of those games were still in Seattle. That's not going to work in really establishing a program, because you need success in March, and away from home to get anywhere. But he just cannot do it. He is notorious for his inability to win outside of Hec Ed.

He put them on the map. He did what no one in over 50 years has done, and that's build UW to be respectable, and turn NW players into talent at UW, and send them to the league. But I feel like the NW is a goldmine for talent. Romar has kept many of them there. And he has developed them. He built UW from them. But shit, that 2006 team of his was STACKED!!!! Four players who would be drafted, and that's not counting Appleby and Williams. And a Sweet 16 is it???

I just think that he has hit his ceiling. And if he had the ability to win away from home, then he would be able to do what he already does (recruit, and develop), and have a program up there that is a legit threat for deep runs in March on a yearly basis.

But if he can't win away from home (and especially in March), then players are going to places that can. He had his shot before Miller, and Oregon ($$), and he didn't get it done. Romar will never get to the Elite Eight. If getting to a Sweet 16 is the best that UW wants because it's better than where they've been in more than a half century, then fine, stick with him. But if they want to take that next step, then they need a new coach.

I'm not saying that Seattle is a premier position, that's why I think that getting Dunphy and Williams are probably beyond his reach. But it's definitely a better place than Ames or Provo. And I think that if they get a coach who has the ability to keep players in the NW, develop them, and win away from Hec Ed, that they will take that next step.

I see Romar as being at the top of the third tier. And they need a second tier coach. I think they can get a second tier coach. Definitely not a top tier, and probably not an upper second tier. But they can get someone who has done the same with less, and can do more with more.

 

[CatsTopPac]

I forgot to add in this year's record away from Hec Ed, in which they are 2-3. So 77-88.

 

[GumbySquad]

CTP, you said 12 players in 8 years were "Drafted" into the NBA, but it's only 10 in 11 years. To say guys like Will Conroy, Justin Dentmon and Justin Holiday are NBA players is like saying that Mustapha Shakur is an NBA player. They played in 10-20 games for mop-up duty, sure, but they now play overseas and in the D-League and none of them were drafted.

It's all semantics anyway. I completely agree with you that Washington has the potential to be a top job based on the recruiting base in the pacific Northwest, hell, I have been saying that for 20 years since Damon, Terry, Dickerson, et all were taken right out of their backyards... however, the fact remains that just because a team is in a recruiting hotbed does not translate into them being an appealing job for a top-flight coach.

My original point remains true. Romar is a few recruits away from having UW again among the top-3 teams in the conference. Say all you want about his ability to game-manage road games and NCAA tournament games, it is quite obvious that some years his teams should have gone further in March... but then again, look at all of their losses in the NCAAs under Romar:

2011: Lost by 3 points to #2 seed UNC
2009: Lost by 2 points in a 5/4 matchup with Purdue
2006: Lost by 6 points to #1 seed UConn in OT
2005: Blown out by Louisviille in Sweet 16 (only bad loss, UW was a #1 seed)
2004: Lost by 2 in 8/9 first round matchup to UAB

So, in other words, they had one bad loss. I just don't get the "Romar can't coach because he never made the Elite Eight" mentality when the obvious fact is they were one possession away from upsetting #1 seed UConn and making the Elite Eight. In other words, had they made one more free throw, had one fewer turnover in that game that would mean Romar can coach? One possession determines the career of a coach? I just don't see it that way.

 

[The Derski]

This is a rather early game time.

 

[GumbySquad]

... I guess what I'm really saying is: IMHO making a deep run in the NCAA tournament requires a lot of luck. Arizona was lucky to get out of the first round game against Memphis in 2011 (and the second round against Texas as well). Hell, even the UofA's national championship team in 97 was lucky to get out of the first round against South Alabama, were down by 10 late before winning by 2. Look at all of UConn's titles and each and every one they were lucky they didn't lose before the Final 4. "Fate" was on their side.

Romar is not a great coach, but he gets a bad rap for his teams not making Elite Eights/Final 4s. A few balls bounce UW's way instead of for the opponent and history would be different. He may very well have plateaued at UW and it's time to look in a different direction, but as far as I'm concerned he is a good coach, a good mentor and player developer and is responsible for putting Washington on the CBB map.

 

[CatsTopPac]

Yeah, I'm not saying that Romar can't coach. Again, what he has done for UW is remarkable, and only a very solid coach can do that. I want to make sure that I take nothing away from him.

But I just think that he has hit his ceiling. He's not going to get the recruits that he has gotten. Like you said, Miller has his pick in the West, and even Altman is controlling the NW more than Romar. And with the top half of the Pac getting back to form, UW is going to further struggle to keep up with the AZs, Oregons, CUs, and even the other 2-3 teams that will be somewhere in the top half on a year to year basis (Cal, UCLA, etc.). I just don't see him getting back to where he was.

So I know Romar can coach. I'm not saying that he can't coach because he never got to the Elite Eight. I'm just saying that he is not going to get UW any further. I'm not putting his career on one possession. That's a bit out of context. I'm saying that when we look at UW and Romar, we think, "UW and Romar are a solid program in the Pac. Romar has done well in getting the program to a point they have never seen, respect in the Pac, and developing players for the league. But nationally (to recruits and to CBB), they are only a blip on the radar, because they have not accomplished much outside of Seattle and the Pac. Had they gotten to the Elite Eight a time or two, it shows that Romar can play for the Final Four. That's huge to recruits, and to the CBB world at large. Right now, Romar can do well in the Pac, but doesn't win enough to be a threat in March. Coming close to winning isn't winning. And when people look back on tourneys, losing by a point is still a loss. It's a coulda shoulda woulda for the fans. It's not taking anything away from him, but you also can't give it to him either. He didn't win the games.

 

[CatsTopPac]

D needs to focus

 

[520GGATO]

Looks like UDUB came to play today. This one's gonna be a tight one.

 

[The Derski]

UA could pull away

 

[CatsTopPac]

they're killing us on the rotations still. BA needs to rotate back.

 

[GumbySquad]

". Romar will never get to the Elite Eight. If getting to a Sweet 16 is the best that UW wants because it's better than where they've been in more than a half century, then fine, stick with him. But if they want to take that next step, then they need a new coach." -CTP

How is that out of context? You just said he 'can't get to the Elite Eight' and I'm saying that if you had watched that game it was UConn that got really lucky to win in regulation.

You think Romar is a bad game coach, you hold resentments towards UW because of their loudmouth fans. I get it. Me, I'm just playing devils advocate. I mean without a very suspect 5 second call Sean Miller doesn't have an Elite Eight appearance at the UofA. Yes, a 1 point loss is still a loss, but luck plays a big part.

Regardless, game is 18-16 now. Hope that both teams continue at this pace. The Cats need to be challenged regularly in order to improve. 60-25 games do nothing for them.

 

[GumbySquad]

McConnell is so great at reading the passing lanes (as was his reputation coming in). Just forced 2 consecutive turnovers.

 

[CatsTopPac]

That's where TJ makes us better. 1 on 1 and he's still looking for a pass instead of trying to force it!!! Great job.

 

[CatsTopPac]

These are the ones you gotta make AG.

 

[GumbySquad]

3 fouls on Kemp. Miller should tell McConnell and Johnson to feed the post. UW has no depth inside whatsoever.

 

[The Derski]

nice 360

 

[CatsTopPac]

Damn, all these guys are running and hustling.

 

[GumbySquad]

Sometimes I question the direction they go with offensive sets... obviously it's all motion, without a specific destination intended, but rather to find the open man.

...but 10 possessions ago Kemp picked up his 3rd, and they haven't gone to Zeus on the block since. What does Kemp do? Scored 6 points in that time. Should have gone to Tarc right away.

 

[Forever]

obviously arizona is very good, but like everyone else i question them as being the best team in the country. What do you Zona fans think?

 

[The Derski]