Uh-oh!

[BallsOfFury]

From Cam Inman's interview with Harbaugh in the Mercury-News this morning:

Jim, what’s keeping WR Ted Ginn Jr. off the field?
“He’s working through something at this point, physically.”

Do you expect to have him back on the field soon?
“We’ll see, could be. He’ll be back when he’s 100 percent. We’re not going to take any chances, but it’s coming along very well.”

How much of a priority is it just to try to develop that number two punt returner for this season, assuming he’s number one?
“Well, we think we have a really good one in Kyle Williams. And we’ll always be developing players at every position. And the importance of that is very important. So, I think we’re in good shape.”

 

[Bemular]

From Cam Inman's interview with Harbaugh in the Mercury-News this morning:

Jim, what’s keeping WR Ted Ginn Jr. off the field?
“He’s working through something at this point, physically.”

Do you expect to have him back on the field soon?
“We’ll see, could be. He’ll be back when he’s 100 percent. We’re not going to take any chances, but it’s coming along very well.”

How much of a priority is it just to try to develop that number two punt returner for this season, assuming he’s number one?
“Well, we think we have a really good one in Kyle Williams. And we’ll always be developing players at every position. And the importance of that is very important. So, I think we’re in good shape.”

I was wondering why he was never in any of the WR drills.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

While the ball security is a huge concern, I like Williams as a return man. He's got very good quickness and vision. I just don't know that I could trust him dropping back to catch a punt at this point. Granted his mistakes to date have been primarily mental rather than physical, and should be subject to good coaching.

It's frustrating that his second turnover in the championship game almost certainly arose because of the first. He was holding the ball with two hands - theoretically more secure - but when the gunner separated one hand from the ball, he didn't have it securely enough to hold on with the other. Ironically, if he'd had it properly tucked in one arm, he almost certainly holds onto it.

 

[deep9er]

While the ball security is a huge concern, I like Williams as a return man. He's got very good quickness and vision. I just don't know that I could trust him dropping back to catch a punt at this point. Granted his mistakes to date have been primarily mental rather than physical, and should be subject to good coaching.

It's frustrating that his second turnover in the championship game almost certainly arose because of the first. He was holding the ball with two hands - theoretically more secure - but when the gunner separated one hand from the ball, he didn't have it securely enough to hold on with the other. Ironically, if he'd had it properly tucked in one arm, he almost certainly holds onto it.

yes, ball security is the MAIN priority by far. losing yards or gaining none, is better than a turnover.

the first muff was a mental error, making up his mind on catching it or not? it was a poor decision rather than physical fumble.

 

[Bemular]

While the ball security is a huge concern, I like Williams as a return man. He's got very good quickness and vision. I just don't know that I could trust him dropping back to catch a punt at this point. Granted his mistakes to date have been primarily mental rather than physical, and should be subject to good coaching.

It's frustrating that his second turnover in the championship game almost certainly arose because of the first. He was holding the ball with two hands - theoretically more secure - but when the gunner separated one hand from the ball, he didn't have it securely enough to hold on with the other. Ironically, if he'd had it properly tucked in one arm, he almost certainly holds onto it.

Actually he wasn't holding the ball securely at all. He did have the ball in both hands but his hands were out in front of his body as opposed to holding the ball in his arms against his body.

When he went to tuck the ball into his right arm his right bicep was hit by Williams (the formation LT not the gunner) pulling his arm and thus his hand away from the ball. The gunner on the right side (Thomas) recovered the fumble.

One side note, had Culliver stayed with Thomas for the last 2-3 yards as opposed to letting him go the fumble may have be recovered by Spillman. That's twice that we have lost in the NFC Championship Game because of a fumble.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Actually he wasn't holding the ball securely at all. He did have the ball in both hands but his hands were out in front of his body as opposed to holding the ball in his arms against his body.

When he went to tuck the ball into his right arm his right bicep was hit by Williams (the formation LT not the gunner) pulling his arm and thus his hand away from the ball. The gunner on the right side (Thomas) recovered the fumble.

One side note, had Culliver stayed with Thomas for the last 2-3 yards as opposed to letting him go the fumble may have be recovered by Spillman. That's twice that we have lost in the NFC Championship Game because of a fumble.

I'm not saying he was holding the ball securely. He wasn't at all. But my read was that he was being extra careful by holding the ball with both hands, rather than tucking it into one. As a result, when Williams hit him and jarred his left hand loose, the ball just popped out. I could be reading it wrong, but that's how I saw it.

 

[deep9er]

going off tangent........the player who scares me the most by the way he holds the ball.......CRABTREE.

SEEMS like he takes a few seconds before tucking it in, whereas i'd like to see it tucked in ASAP.

 

[Bemular]

yes, ball security is the MAIN priority by far. losing yards or gaining none, is better than a turnover.

the first muff was a mental error, making up his mind on catching it or not? it was a poor decision rather than physical fumble.

Let's not forget the punt he dived for as well, that was even more stupid than the muff off the knee cap. When you add to those three mistakes the fact that he also ran himself into a faceplant on what would have been a HUGE PR, overall I would say he failed miserably as our PR in that game.

But, I do think he will learn from those mistakes and be very productive this year in whatever role we ask him to fill.

 

[Bemular]

I'm not saying he was holding the ball securely. He wasn't at all. But my read was that he was being extra careful by holding the ball with both hands, rather than tucking it into one. As a result, when Williams hit him and jarred his left hand loose, the ball just popped out. I could be reading it wrong, but that's how I saw it.

K.Williams actually removed his left hand from the ball as he tried to transition into a tuck. J.Williams never touched the left side of K.Williams body. This comes from film as well as post-game interviews with K.Williams where he described the play precisely as the film shows it.

Just for the sake of clarity, a one-armed tuck would have been more secure than the way he was holding the ball. Now, if he had two-armed it high & tight against his body that would have been the most secure thing he could have done next to calling for a fair catch.

 

[deep9er]

Let's not forget the punt he dived for as well, that was even more stupid than the muff off the knee cap. When you add to those three mistakes the fact that he also ran himself into a faceplant on what would have been a HUGE PR, overall I would say he failed miserably as our PR in that game.

But, I do think he will learn from those mistakes and be very productive this year in whatever role we ask him to fill.

good point but doesn't that mean his decision making is suspect? it all starts with decision making so now i have more doubt?

as beat writers pointed out even before the draft, he'll have a hard time with Jenkins now on board.

 

[Bemular]

going off tangent........the player who scares me the most by the way he holds the ball.......CRABTREE.

SEEMS like he takes a few seconds before tucking it in, whereas i'd like to see it tucked in ASAP.

This post deserves a 1000 reps! So true, Deep. Crabtree has been lucky with the few fumbles he has had but sooner or later that one-handed ball flailing outside his body is going to cost us.

 

[Bemular]

good point but doesn't that mean his decision making is suspect? it all starts with decision making so now i have more doubt?

as beat writers pointed out even before the draft, he'll have a hard time with Jenkins now on board.

100% accurate! His decision making in that game was textbook how NOT to play the role of PR. My confidence in him comes from knowing/believing he is an intelligent player and I think if he were to find himself in those same situations, I don't think he makes any of those mistakes again.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

K.Williams actually removed his left hand from the ball as he tried to transition into a tuck. J.Williams never touched the left side of K.Williams body. This comes from film as well as post-game interviews with K.Williams where he described the play precisely as the film shows it.

Just for the sake of clarity, a one-armed tuck would have been more secure than the way he was holding the ball. Now, if he had two-armed it high & tight against his body that would have been the most secure thing he could have done next to calling for a fair catch.

I'd have to watch it again, but my recollection was that J. Williams hit him on the left and moved his arm. As said, I might not have seen it accurately. I've only seen it online on the small screen to date.

 

[deep9er]

100% accurate! His decision making in that game was textbook how NOT to play the role of PR. My confidence in him comes from knowing/believing he is an intelligent player and I think if he were to find himself in those same situations, I don't think he makes any of those mistakes again.

ok thats reasonable, being smart and now having gone thru 'on the job training', maybe he can move forward.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Ok, just watched the NFL.com highlight. J. Williams hit the right side, not the left. Kyle's left arm is blocked by his body in the view they have. As said, I may have misread that. Can't recall what view initially gave me the impression that he had both hands on it, but I do seen to recall it. I've got the game on NFL Rewind at my in-laws' house. I'll try to rewatch on that sometime in the next couple weeks.

 

[Bemular]

Ok, just watched the NFL.com highlight. J. Williams hit the right side, not the left. Kyle's left arm is blocked by his body in the view they have. As said, I may have misread that. Can't recall what view initially gave me the impression that he had both hands on it, but I do seem to recall it. I've got the game on NFL Rewind at my in-laws' house. I'll try to rewatch on that sometime in the next couple weeks.

You're correct. He did start his runback with the ball in both hands, swinging in front of his body. At the precise moment he went to transition from two hands to a one arm tuck is when J.Williams hit his bicep and the ball popped out.

 

[Flyingiguana]

While the ball security is a huge concern, I like Williams as a return man. He's got very good quickness and vision. I just don't know that I could trust him dropping back to catch a punt at this point. Granted his mistakes to date have been primarily mental rather than physical, and should be subject to good coaching.

It's frustrating that his second turnover in the championship game almost certainly arose because of the first. He was holding the ball with two hands - theoretically more secure - but when the gunner separated one hand from the ball, he didn't have it securely enough to hold on with the other. Ironically, if he'd had it properly tucked in one arm, he almost certainly holds onto it.

he made three mistakes including diving for a fair catch. that dive, should have put his ass on the bench in the return game.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

he made three mistakes including diving for a fair catch. that dive, should have put his ass on the bench in the return game.

I don't disagree. And I hated the punt he played off the bounce in the Saints game, too. WAY too risky, but thankfully the ball bounced just right. But again, other than the last fumble, these were mental errors. Those things can be changed relatively easily, at least in theory. He's not a major concern when it comes to simply catching the punt when he commits to it, the way Philip Adams was for instance.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

It's also worth noting that our final two scores came off of strong returns and resulting short fields. Williams had a 24-yard PR before the second TD, and a 40-yard KO return before our game-tying FG. Obviously in retrospect we would have been better off without Williams back there, but our other return men had question marks, too, and probably wouldn't have been as effective on the balls they caught.

There's no defense of Williams' errors IMO, but you don't end a guy's career or boot him off the team for that reason alone. Williams is a good kid, a hard worker, and a talented player. I'd like to see him get a legit shot as a receiver and returner.