POLL Top 10 poll #18: #18 player in history - Runoff 2

[calsnowskier]

Runoff for the #18 player in baseball history. Poll closes Saturday AM.

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[MilkSpiller22]

i honestly dont know where i would rank maddux in my pitcher ranking... i dont think i would put him 4th... as he would be here... not that that is a fair way to judge since it should be just pujols vs Maddux...

But in that comparison, i would have Pujols too... i really dont see an option better than pujols... Trout may get there one day... but right now, he is clearly a top 15 position player...

 

[jarntt]

The slant towards modern players is nuts

 

[MilkSpiller22]

The slant towards modern players is nuts

not sure whether i follow...

 

[msgkings322]

The slant towards modern players is nuts

There should be players from all eras. Right now there are 3 main eras represented the most, as it should be (the 1910s and 20s, the 50s and early 60s, and the 80s/90s). This list is far from slanted to just the moderns

 

[jarntt]

There should be players from all eras. Right now there are 3 main eras represented the most, as it should be (the 1910s and 20s, the 50s and early 60s, and the 80s/90s). This list is far from slanted to just the moderns

So the top pitchers in MLB history are:
Walter Johnson
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Maddux
Pedro

 

[calsnowskier]

The slant towards modern players is nuts

We didn’t have a modern player (outside of Bonds) in the top 10. How is that a slant?

Milk was complaining that the early years were getting a heavy slant while the modern age was completely slighted.

I don’t really see the argument for this take.

 

[calsnowskier]

So the top pitchers in MLB history are:
Walter Johnson
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Maddux
Pedro

Imho, in some order, and maybe a little adjusting…

Yes.

You haven’t argued your point on a specific pitcher yet, though. Convince us? Or at least bring someone to our attention who we have overlooked.

 

[LHG]

Neither of these guys are in my top 3, and not even in my top 10 for consideration in this spot, but Pujols is closer so I'm going to vote for him.

I do think I'd prefer a few pitchers over Maddux but I do think that their are only slightly better than him so I'm okay if he gets this spot.

 

[jarntt]

Imho, in some order, and maybe a little adjusting…

Yes.

You haven’t argued your point on a specific pitcher yet, though. Convince us? Or at least bring someone to our attention who we have overlooked.

I didn't mention a particular pitcher. I asked him if he thought those were the top 5 pitchers in MLB history. I have a few I'd put above them. Obviously people's votes say they disagree. I'm saying they are wrong and totally slanted towards modern pitchers. I'm not sure how you can argue when 4 of the top 5 are. I'm not looking into getting into a discussion on certain players, but it's pretty obvious who they are

 

[Cedrique]

Should Maddux get a bump for all the gold gloves, or as a pitcher is that already baked into his stats?
These are the kinds of things I think about when I should be working on my taxes.....

 

[msgkings322]

So the top pitchers in MLB history are:
Walter Johnson
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Maddux
Pedro

Kinda, yeah. We're having trouble figuring out where to put Cy Young because he literally pitched in the 1800s to start his career. We're also looking at Lefty Grove and Warren Spahn a bit but those more recent guys have the numbers. Tom Seaver is also getting some attention.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I didn't mention a particular pitcher. I asked him if he thought those were the top 5 pitchers in MLB history. I have a few I'd put above them. Obviously people's votes say they disagree. I'm saying they are wrong and totally slanted towards modern pitchers. I'm not sure how you can argue when 4 of the top 5 are. I'm not looking into getting into a discussion on certain players, but it's pretty obvious who they are

The problem with the big 4 of the 90s is that they all are a little different

Clemens is the clear best and other than steroids there is no logical reason for him not to be a top 2 pitcher of all time.

Maddux and Johnson have the dominance and longevity. With more awards than any other all time best pitcher

And then Pedro who arguably has 2 seasons in the top 15 all time best seasons. With one in the top 5. His regular season dominance is possibly the best of all time. He just does not have longevity.

You are right that having 4 of the top 5 or even top 10 looks weird. But I am also not confident enough to say it is wrong. And I am not sure who belongs over them.

 

[msgkings322]

I didn't mention a particular pitcher. I asked him if he thought those were the top 5 pitchers in MLB history. I have a few I'd put above them. Obviously people's votes say they disagree. I'm saying they are wrong and totally slanted towards modern pitchers. I'm not sure how you can argue when 4 of the top 5 are. I'm not looking into getting into a discussion on certain players, but it's pretty obvious who they are

This is super weak. Give us a couple names and we can show you their numbers and why they might not be so obviously better.

 

[Clayton]

So the top pitchers in MLB history are:
Walter Johnson
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Maddux
Pedro

Its probably the opposite of the hitters. Many of the top 10 pitchers will likely be in the modern half but if you did a top 20 pitchers it would balance out in the back half

 

[Clayton]

ERA+ of Maddux vs Grove

Best year Maddux
2nd best year Maddux
3rd best year Maddux
4th best year Maddux
5th best year Lefty
6th best year basically tied
7th best year Maddux
8th best year basically tied
9th best year Lefty
10th best year Lefty
11th best year Lefty
12th best year Lefty
13th best year Lefty
14th best year Maddux
15th best year Maddux
16th best year Maddux
17th best year Maddux

Its kinda hard to push some of the older pitchers ahead of these guys.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Should Maddux get a bump for all the gold gloves, or as a pitcher is that already baked into his stats?
These are the kinds of things I think about when I should be working on my taxes.....

that brings up a statement... pitcher errors SHOULD count towards his ERA...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Adjusted ERA+- most times being top 5

1.	Clemens • 1984-2007	14
2.	Young • 1890-1911	13
3.	Grove • 1925-1941	12
	Johnson • 1907-1927	12
5.	Maddux • 1986-2008	10
6.	Foster • 1923-1937	9
	Mathewson • 1900-1916	9
	Palmer • 1965-1984	9
	Seaver • 1967-1986	9
10.	Alexander • 1911-1930	8
	Brown • 1903-1916	8
	Johnson • 1988-2009	8
	Keefe • 1880-1893	8
	Nichols • 1890-1906	8
	Paige • 1927-1965	8

 

[MilkSpiller22]

WAR for Pitchers- most times being top 5

1.	Young • 1890-1911	14
2.	Alexander • 1911-1930	13
	Clemens • 1984-2007	13
	Grove • 1925-1941	13
5.	Johnson • 1907-1927	11
	Maddux • 1986-2008	11
	Seaver • 1967-1986	11
	Spahn • 1942-1965	11
9.	Johnson • 1988-2009	10
	Mathewson • 1900-1916	10

 

[Cedrique]

that brings up a statement... pitcher errors SHOULD count towards his ERA...

Yeah I could see that, except they'd need to come up with a different name for it because the other team is still not earning the run.