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POLL Top 10 poll #16: #16 player in history - Runoff

Who is the #16 player in baseball history?


  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

MilkSpiller22

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looking at Joe D's numbers... he was a post season disappointment... he was in so many WS and won most of them... but he does not seem to be the reason for any of it...

Speaker was not a great post season guy too.... so neither get my post season bonus...
 

Clayton

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sure, but what do you do when player A has longevity, and player B was robbed of longevity for valid non injury reasons??
I do think the other argument for Joe MiMaggio is that he had 13 seasons and was in the MVP race for 12 seasons. Maybe with 3 more prime seasons he only gets to 90-100 career WAR but at some point I just feel like a Millennial telling all the old folks that they have no idea what they're talking about if Im not promoting the guy.
 

calsnowskier

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Randy Johnson 1989 - 2009

5 CY, 4 top 5 CY, 1 top 10 CY, 2 top 10 MVP, 7 more season w MVP votes, 10 ASG

Bold: IP 2, ERA 4, K 9, WHIP 3, K/BB 1

303-166 W-L
4875/1497 K/BB
603/100 GS/CG
4135.1 IP

Greg Maddux 1986 - 2010

4 CY, 5 top 5 CY, 2 top 5 MVP, 4 more season w MVP votes, 8 ASG, 18 GG

Bold: IP 5, ERA 4, WHIP 4, K/BB 3

355-227 W-L
3371/999 K/BB
740/109 GS/CG
5008.1 IP

Pedro Martinez 1992 - 2009

3 CY, 4 top 5 CY, 2 top 5 MVP, 4 more season w MVP votes, 8 ASG

Bold: ERA 5, WHIP 6, K/BB 4

219-100 W-L
3154/760 K/BB
409/46 GS/CG
2827.1 IP
 

calsnowskier

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Yeah, Speaker is in Clemens tier which is above the other players imo.

When you said you disagreed with me earlier, which was the biggest disagreement?
That Speaker is higher than the pitchers. I think we have gotten to a decent gap in the hitters and that we SHOUKD have a run of pitchers at this point ( possibly filling out the top 20)
 

calsnowskier

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sure, but what do you do when player A has longevity, and player B was robbed of longevity for valid non injury reasons??
You offer a hug and say “Dude, that sucks”.

Factoring in missed seasons due to world events is a predictive measurement, not a resume measurement.
 

Clayton

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That Speaker is higher than the pitchers. I think we have gotten to a decent gap in the hitters and that we SHOUKD have a run of pitchers at this point ( possibly filling out the top 20)
Do you think there was a gap between Clemens and the other pitchers? If so, wouldn't position players likely fill that gap?
 

calsnowskier

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Do you think there was a gap between Clemens and the other pitchers? If so, wouldn't position players likely fill that gap?
Not a HUGE gap. But yes, imho (not a “die-on” hill) Clemens is the “clear” GOAT pitcher. But I strongly believe there is a sizable gap between Wagner and the next hitter.

I believe Clemens should have won over Schmidt…
 

MilkSpiller22

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You offer a hug and say “Dude, that sucks”.

Factoring in missed seasons due to world events is a predictive measurement, not a resume measurement.

I agree... but it is also hard to penalize a player for it too...

But again, i am not a big longevity person in the first place...
 

Clayton

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Not a HUGE gap. But yes, imho (not a “die-on” hill) Clemens is the “clear” GOAT pitcher. But I strongly believe there is a sizable gap between Wagner and the next hitter.
I will say that I have Pujols, DiMaggio, Maddux, and Johnson (and Frank Robinson) in the same tier. So if Johnson goes here its still going to make sense in my brain.
 

calsnowskier

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I will say that I have Pujols, DiMaggio, Maddux, and Johnson (and Frank Robinson) in the same tier. So if Johnson goes here its still going to make sense in my brain.
There is only 1 CLEAR “does not belong” player in this batch. Of the other 5, I think DiMaggio is #5. But I rate the 3 pitchers as 1, 2 and 3 here.

I am fine with any of the top 5, though. They all live within the opinion-zone.
 

MilkSpiller22

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I will say that I have Pujols, DiMaggio, Maddux, and Johnson (and Frank Robinson) in the same tier. So if Johnson goes here its still going to make sense in my brain.

frank robinson is not in their tier... he is in the next tier... actually with Ken griffey JR
 

MilkSpiller22

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There is only 1 CLEAR “does not belong” player in this batch. Of the other 5, I think DiMaggio is #5. But I rate the 3 pitchers as 1, 2 and 3 here.

I am fine with any of the top 5, though. They all live within the opinion-zone.


this i agree with, other than your top 5 ranking,... i have this being a pitcher spot... because my top 2 pitchers are in the option... but i do wonder if my top 2 offensive players were available in this runoff if i would vote for them instead...

Pujols and AROD...
 

Clayton

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There is only 1 CLEAR “does not belong” player in this batch. Of the other 5, I think DiMaggio is #5. But I rate the 3 pitchers as 1, 2 and 3 here.

I am fine with any of the top 5, though. They all live within the opinion-zone.
The pitchers might go 1, 2, 3, too, just because we've seen them all pitch.

I will admit that DiMaggio is getting a fame bump and a respect bump on top of the missed prime due to military. The ranking of his career is much more subjective than the others imo.
 

calsnowskier

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this i agree with, other than your top 5 ranking,... i have this being a pitcher spot... because my top 2 pitchers are in the option... but i do wonder if my top 2 offensive players were available in this runoff if i would vote for them instead...

Pujols and AROD...
I would like to see Pujols (and Robinson) get more love in the nom process. But so far, the actual final results have not broken their placements yet (Henderson was a tad bit high, and I always had Henderson as just a shave under Robinson).
 

MilkSpiller22

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Its funny that he has the highest WAR of all of the people I mentioned

well, i am not sure how Pujols had a season with over 100 RBIs and had a NEGATIVE WAR.... i kind of want that explained to me...
 

calsnowskier

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The pitchers might go 1, 2, 3, too, just because we've seen them all pitch.

I will admit that DiMaggio is getting a fame bump and a respect bump on top of the missed prime due to military. The ranking of his career is much more subjective than the others imo.
His numbers are actually better than what I expected. And it does suck that he lost 3 PRIME years.

But the Yankee bump cannot be avoided.

He is a legit contender in this neighborhood, though.
 

Clayton

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well, i am not sure how Pujols had a season with over 100 RBIs and had a NEGATIVE WAR.... i kind of want that explained to me...
So he was tied for 18th in RBIs that year and...

Confused Thinking GIF



its the shift, right? Hard hit outs. Double plays. He was also 37. His power numbers were down.
 

calsnowskier

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well, i am not sure how Pujols had a season with over 100 RBIs and had a NEGATIVE WAR.... i kind of want that explained to me...
Wow. That is wild. And not just a negative WAR, but -1.9 WAR.

I would guess a lot of that comes from him being a DH and only having a .672 OPS. That is hardly even a starting-level OPS.

I suspect that is just an anomaly WAR, though. No stats are perfect and can fall into weird negative-loops on occation.
 
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