Todd Frazier

[Trudem]

We just traded for him and reportedly sent our best pitching prospect to the dodgers in a three team deal.

 

[podsox]

montas looked like a reliever to me, trayce showed promise but his numbers in the minors sucked, and micah cant field. I'm not going to complain but there is a bad history of NL power hitters heading to the AL. if frazier can hit around 260 and hit 30+ hrs this a steal. I'm just scared he will be batting 220 with 15 hrs at the end of the season.

 

[Trudem]

Does this move Lawrie to Second?

 

[richig07]

Does this move Lawrie to Second?

Yes, that is what I have heard.

 

[idseer]

i don't like this move.
first .. the sox aren't going to compete anyway .... still too many weaknesses.

second .. it turns an already weak minor league system (bottom third) into an even weaker system. i thought the point of building your minor league system was to develop players and then USE them at an affordable price! not the sox. as soon as a potential good player comes along they trade him for some over 30 type power guy. the sox will NEVER learn! they have no clue how to build or use their ml system.

third .. this move now takes sanchez out of the lineup. the fielding just got worse (remember how bad it already was?). saladino was a better fielder at third than frazier will ever be and sanchez was gg material at second. sanchez always hit well at each stage he played, albeit it took a few ab's to adjust. i believe he would have done the same at the major league level only now he'll be nothing but a backup.

fourth .. maybe not as important but we just added about $10 million to accomplish all this.

RV is still calling the shots. wonder where abreu will bat this year? hmmmm. still no dh, still no right fielder. still no 4th & 5th starter. .... just question marks. rp also got weaker.

 

[podsox]

They gave up a 4th outfielder, a reliever, and an infielder that can't field. The left side of the infield is outstanding defensively now. They didn't give up Anderson or fulmer. I don't know how anyone can hate the trade. U can be worried about our past acquisitions not panning out but on paper it is a solid move.

 

[idseer]

They gave up a 4th outfielder, a reliever, and an infielder that can't field. The left side of the infield is outstanding defensively now. They didn't give up Anderson or fulmer. I don't know how anyone can hate the trade. U can be worried about our past acquisitions not panning out but on paper it is a solid move.

i understand your point of view. but ... they were all good prospects. highly rated (they all became among the higher rated dodger prospects now). to label them as you did suggests that's all they will ever be.

it may turn out to be a good deal. i'm just not convinced.

 

[anotheridiot]

Its a solid move to get a bat and someone to draw fans to the park. Problem though is Frasier has been heavy first half and really looks like one of those guys that gets hurt with the home run derby messing with his swing. Solid clubhouse guy though, glad the sox got a name. It also really seemed to hurt the reds competing against the cubs, but in all honesty, the reds look to have let the dodgers get the better prospects in this deal.

 

[msgkings322]

Its a solid move to get a bat and someone to draw fans to the park. Problem though is Frasier has been heavy first half and really looks like one of those guys that gets hurt with the home run derby messing with his swing. Solid clubhouse guy though, glad the sox got a name. It also really seemed to hurt the reds competing against the cubs, but in all honesty, the reds look to have let the dodgers get the better prospects in this deal.

Agree re LA getting the better prospects, but this was a classic player for prospect move, which helped both teams. Trade is like that, no winners and losers both sides get what they want or they wouldn't trade. Sox want to try to compete now, so they trade some POSSIBLE future players for established ones. Reds want to suck now and collect prospects for the future, and that's just what they did. Reds aren't competing with the Cubs in 2016, they are looking to compete in 2018+

Even if Frazier is a bust and the prospects are good, it was not a 'bad deal' for the Sox due to their goals. Same if Frazier is great and the prospects suck, what good would a productive Frazier do the Reds today? They traded for a future benefit, which is the right move for them.

 

[Mingo]

First - he fields like a third basemen. 2nd - he is a potential 30 homer guy on a team that finished with 136 HRs last year - about 70 down for a normal year at the Cell. Frazier was sorely needed for D and for power. Lawrie moves to 2nd - a more natural position -and the Sox have made up 50 homers and upgrade the D.

The new catchers added some pop, but don't believe that are as good on D and game calling and pitch framing that Flowers was. So I'm not sure about that move.

If the Sox add Cespedes - play in in LF - that made up the Homer deficit and they got better defensively at 4 positions.

Melky moves to RF - with makes the Sox better defensively at 4 positions. 5 if you want to count Saladino at SS.

They need a RH starter and a LaRoche resurrection - and a snap of good luck to contend. But, I'm here for them every year.

 

[anotheridiot]

I'm not sure Melky is a good enough defender for right field. He has played there sparingly, but mostly been a position to hide a bat in. I dont know if Garcia was that bad of a defender in right though. I think they go Gordon over Cespedes though, but honestly, I cannot believe either one is not signed somewhere yet. After Cespedes woke up the met offense last half of last year, you gotta wonder if its all locker room problems keeping him from being signed.

 

[podsox]

First - he fields like a third basemen. 2nd - he is a potential 30 homer guy on a team that finished with 136 HRs last year - about 70 down for a normal year at the Cell. Frazier was sorely needed for D and for power. Lawrie moves to 2nd - a more natural position -and the Sox have made up 50 homers and upgrade the D.

The new catchers added some pop, but don't believe that are as good on D and game calling and pitch framing that Flowers was. So I'm not sure about that move.

If the Sox add Cespedes - play in in LF - that made up the Homer deficit and they got better defensively at 4 positions.

Melky moves to RF - with makes the Sox better defensively at 4 positions. 5 if you want to count Saladino at SS.

They need a RH starter and a LaRoche resurrection - and a snap of good luck to contend. But, I'm here for them every year.

Flowers was awful defensely. He couldn't throw anybody out and he couldn't keep the ball I front of him. You know he sucks when the only positive hawk could come up with is how good he framed pitches

 

[idseer]

First - he fields like a third basemen. 2nd - he is a potential 30 homer guy on a team that finished with 136 HRs last year - about 70 down for a normal year at the Cell. Frazier was sorely needed for D and for power. Lawrie moves to 2nd - a more natural position -and the Sox have made up 50 homers and upgrade the D.

The new catchers added some pop, but don't believe that are as good on D and game calling and pitch framing that Flowers was. So I'm not sure about that move.

If the Sox add Cespedes - play in in LF - that made up the Homer deficit and they got better defensively at 4 positions.

Melky moves to RF - with makes the Sox better defensively at 4 positions. 5 if you want to count Saladino at SS.

They need a RH starter and a LaRoche resurrection - and a snap of good luck to contend. But, I'm here for them every year.

sox didn't make up 50 home runs they made up about 20. and it'll be less than that because i'd bet the odds are frazier does not hit 30 for the sox coming into a new league and lawrie will hit about 10 or 12, closer to his average. sox 2nd and 3rd basemen hit 19 home runs last year last season. do the math ... unless you expect the max out of frazier?

and how is 2nd base a more natural position for lawrie? he's played there a total of 80 games in 5 years.

the sox won't be adding cespedes. period!

melky is not very good in rf either. in 11 seasons he's started only 63 games there for a reason. he does have a negative dwar rating. garcia has way more assists per inning played there also. so ... sorry, no fielding upgrade in right with melky (he won't be there anyway ... it'll be garcia again).

and what positions are they better at defensively again? not third as saladino is a much better fielder than frazier .... not second as sanchez is practically gg caliber and lawrie is weak in the field there. not catching ..... not first base ..... not short. it may be saladino's more natural position but to say he's better there than ramirez is just not true. ..... not left because cespedes isn't happening ..... tell me again ... where are they better defensively?

 

[idseer]

Flowers was awful defensely. He couldn't throw anybody out and he couldn't keep the ball I front of him. You know he sucks when the only positive hawk could come up with is how good he framed pitches

isn't it funny how sox fans have latched on to that bogus "framing" bs? i see it mentioned all the time now ... as if it really exists! lol

 

[Mingo]

sox didn't make up 50 home runs they made up about 20. and it'll be less than that because i'd bet the odds are frazier does not hit 30 for the sox coming into a new league and lawrie will hit about 10 or 12, closer to his average. sox 2nd and 3rd basemen hit 19 home runs last year last season. do the math ... unless you expect the max out of frazier?

and how is 2nd base a more natural position for lawrie? he's played there a total of 80 games in 5 years.

the sox won't be adding cespedes. period!

melky is not very good in rf either. in 11 seasons he's started only 63 games there for a reason. he does have a negative dwar rating. garcia has way more assists per inning played there also. so ... sorry, no fielding upgrade in right with melky (he won't be there anyway ... it'll be garcia again).

and what positions are they better at defensively again? not third as saladino is a much better fielder than frazier .... not second as sanchez is practically gg caliber and lawrie is weak in the field there. not catching ..... not first base ..... not short. it may be saladino's more natural position but to say he's better there than ramirez is just not true. ..... not left because cespedes isn't happening ..... tell me again ... where are they better defensively?

I'm generally optimistic.

I'm a fan of Saladino, but he appears to be moving his Dwar 1.5 to SS on this defense. Frazier had a .9 DWar last year and was 3.4 - I believe offensively - he is a professional 3rd baseman. 30 hrs - maybe not - he tapered in the 2nd half last season - which is not a great sign and the Reds have a short porch. However, the Sox play at the Cell and it is one of the better HR venues in MLB = 2nd only to the Rockies - if I remember correctly. Either way to add things up - Frazier is an upgrade at 3rd and an asset in the lineup. Maybe its Whack a Mole, but the Sox haven't had a real 3rd basemen since Crede left the team.

I think Bret Lawrie is a more natural 2nd baseman - where he played in the minors - than a 3rd baseman. He is a grinder - he will give you a few more HRs - some speed - a plus arm at 2nd base.

I agree the Sox did not get better Defensively at Catcher - but they appear to have a little more offense. I agree that Saladino and Sanchez are plus fielders. Maybe Anderson is ready at SS this year - I hope he refines his game - in AAA and Saladino gets a full year at SS. Sanchez can be a top utility player - based on his D.


If your argument is that the Sox didn't get better with Frazier and Lawrie - I'll disagree with that.

It remains to be seen if the Sox will add Cespedes - they appear to have played the market and are well positioned to make an offer as well as anyone else. Abreu would love to have him. With FRazier - Abreu and Cespedes in the lineup - hitting would have a chance to be contagious at the Cell again.

You're a Sox fan - I'm a Sox fan - so I'm sure you will understand when I tell you - I go through this cycle every year - where I manufacture hope in the Spring - practice denial through the middle of the season - and hope for a hot streak at the end - before becoming disappointed once again However, when the Sox won the WS in 2005 I was elated for at least a half dozen years.

I'd like to see a professional manager work this team - even though I loved Robin Ventura as a player - he lights no fires as a motivator or a baseball strategist.

 

[idseer]

I'm generally optimistic.

I'm a fan of Saladino, but he appears to be moving his Dwar 1.5 to SS on this defense. Frazier had a .9 DWar last year and was 3.4 - I believe offensively - he is a professional 3rd baseman. 30 hrs - maybe not - he tapered in the 2nd half last season - which is not a great sign and the Reds have a short porch. However, the Sox play at the Cell and it is one of the better HR venues in MLB = 2nd only to the Rockies - if I remember correctly. Either way to add things up - Frazier is an upgrade at 3rd and an asset in the lineup. Maybe its Whack a Mole, but the Sox haven't had a real 3rd basemen since Crede left the team.

I think Bret Lawrie is a more natural 2nd baseman - where he played in the minors - than a 3rd baseman. He is a grinder - he will give you a few more HRs - some speed - a plus arm at 2nd base.

I agree the Sox did not get better Defensively at Catcher - but they appear to have a little more offense. I agree that Saladino and Sanchez are plus fielders. Maybe Anderson is ready at SS this year - I hope he refines his game - in AAA and Saladino gets a full year at SS. Sanchez can be a top utility player - based on his D.


If your argument is that the Sox didn't get better with Frazier and Lawrie - I'll disagree with that.

It remains to be seen if the Sox will add Cespedes - they appear to have played the market and are well positioned to make an offer as well as anyone else. Abreu would love to have him. With FRazier - Abreu and Cespedes in the lineup - hitting would have a chance to be contagious at the Cell again.

You're a Sox fan - I'm a Sox fan - so I'm sure you will understand when I tell you - I go through this cycle every year - where I manufacture hope in the Spring - practice denial through the middle of the season - and hope for a hot streak at the end - before becoming disappointed once again However, when the Sox won the WS in 2005 I was elated for at least a half dozen years.

I'd like to see a professional manager work this team - even though I loved Robin Ventura as a player - he lights no fires as a motivator or a baseball strategist.

i'd LIKE to be optimistic ....... but i can't be with this team. i was a bit last year, but then they proved once again what a waste of time that is. they will be as mishandled this year as they were last ... thanks to the brilliance of retaining ventura as the (so called) manager.

i won't say they didn't get better with the addition of frazier (i don't think lawrie will do as well as sanchez would have this year had they just made him the 2nd baseman), it just won't be by much. maybe another 3 game improvement. they did this just to add home runs (frazier's only appeal as he's not a good hitter nor a great fielder) but the fact is, the team that won the WS last year had exactly 3 more home runs!

obviously had they acquired cespedes i would have been impressed. however, i doubt they were ever actually in the running. reinsdork is not smart enough or is too cheap to go for the 'real' players that could make a difference. so, we'll have garbage at catcher, garbage in right, garbage at dh, a garbage manager, nada for 4th and 5th starters and a weak bp (and this is assuming robertson doesn't continue his decline).

i was probably more elated in '05 than you .... but prepare yourself for 4th or 5th place again. sox management just doesn't have the smarts to put a team together. i've been saying it for years now ... this team will never compete seriously again until the team is sold. even then there's no guarantee but at least it gives us a shot.

 

[Mingo]

I understand the Show Me attitude.

Look like the Sox are going into the season looking for Melky to get better and Garcia to wake up.

For the first time since the F. Thomas 90s- I think the Sox are building some talent in the minors. Adams and Fulmer appear to be solid pitchers near ready. Anderson is near ready and some other position players are rising in the system.

So it goes. thanks for your thoughts.

 

[richig07]

The new catchers added some pop, but don't believe that are as good on D and game calling and pitch framing that Flowers was. So I'm not sure about that move.

I have no idea where the myth that Tyler Flowers was good defensively came from, but it's good for a laugh.

Good at calling a game and working with pitchers? Sure. His pitchers liked him and he called a fine game. However, fundamentally behind the plate, he was subpar (even that term is generous). Near the bottom of the league in past balls and CS%.

Even pitch receiving, he was about par. Not even above average.

 

[Mingo]

I have no idea where the myth that Tyler Flowers was good defensively came from, but it's good for a laugh.

Good at calling a game and working with pitchers? Sure. His pitchers liked him and he called a fine game. However, fundamentally behind the plate, he was subpar (even that term is generous). Near the bottom of the league in past balls and CS%.

Even pitch receiving, he was about par. Not even above average.

It's all relative - I'm not impressed with the Defensive Catching game of any of the new catchers.

 

[richig07]

Per the spelling error in my previous post.

*Passed balls