time to tick my buddy stymie off

[skinsdad62]

stymie you dont like bruce allen but you know his only draft he actually did here wasnt all that bad

we got trent murphy in round 2 who is the starting OLB and rotational guy

we got our starting LG ? possible future center

we got our starting RT morgan moses who is ranked as the 3rd best starting RT in the NFL according to PFF

we got a burgeoning PB starting CB in breeland

and we got a contributing # 4 wr in ryan grant

now for all of allen's miscues that isnt a half bad draft 3 starters and some good rotational guys

 

[deanpet21]

Moses and Breeland are future pro bowlers. Murphy and Long were reaches at draft time and they have become average NFL players. Smith will eventually be the starting OLB. Murphy will be a backup role player for this team. Long is a serviceable lineman. He was a 3rd round pick we expected a lot more from him. When SM drafted Kojo in the 4th round that sent a huge signal to Long.

To sum up getting Moses and Breeland in that draft looks like a huge win for our team. We didn't have a 1st round pick in that draft so Allen does deserve a lot of credit.

 

[gkekoa]

Moses and Breeland are future pro bowlers. Murphy and Long were reaches at draft time and they have become average NFL players. Smith will eventually be the starting OLB. Murphy will be a backup role player for this team. Long is a serviceable lineman. He was a 3rd round pick we expected a lot more from him. When SM drafted Kojo in the 4th round that sent a huge signal to Long.

To sum up getting Moses and Breeland in that draft looks like a huge win for our team. We didn't have a 1st round pick in that draft so Allen does deserve a lot of credit.

So third rounders are supposed to be stars in year three?

Mojo was BPA...that is why they drafted him. Few teams draft for need.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Moses and Breeland are future pro bowlers. Murphy and Long were reaches at draft time and they have become average NFL players. Smith will eventually be the starting OLB. Murphy will be a backup role player for this team. Long is a serviceable lineman. He was a 3rd round pick we expected a lot more from him. When SM drafted Kojo in the 4th round that sent a huge signal to Long.

To sum up getting Moses and Breeland in that draft looks like a huge win for our team. We didn't have a 1st round pick in that draft so Allen does deserve a lot of credit.

Bingo. When you combine the draft with his free agent moves he had 2 big hits, Breeland and Moses, and many more misses. Murphy and Long have not reached average yet and I doubt they ever will.

 

[skinsdad62]

Bingo. When you combine the draft with his free agent moves he had 2 big hits, Breeland and Moses, and many more misses. Murphy and Long have not reached average yet and I doubt they ever will.

i think murphy is an avg player . i dont think he is subpar . long has been good for us as well he should be avg as well

 

[deanpet21]

I remember when a lot of people on this board thought Murphy was a pass rush specialist b/c of his sack total at Stanford. lol. I agree he is an average player but its funny how that Gillete was brought in and we drafted Smith a high 2nd round pick to take Murphys place.

 

[Stymietee]

[QUOTE="skinsdad62, post: 7755046, member: 1stymie you dont like bruce allen but you know his only draft he actually did here wasnt all that bad

we got trent murphy in round 2 who is the starting OLB and rotational guy

we got our starting LG ? future center

we got our starting RT morgan moses who is ranked as the 3rd best starting RT in the NFL according to PFF

we got aa burgeoning PB starting CB in breeland

and we got a contributing # 4 wr in ryan grant

now for all of allen's miscues that isnt a half bad draft 3 starters and some good rotational guys[/QUOTE]


Well, to be fair to both of them Dad, Bruce came in with the idea that plug and play was the better way to go. Signing other guys from other teams was his primary way to build while using the draft filled in the rest. I don't believe anyone has forgotten that this team often was crowned the off season champions under his now infamous mantra....."We're winning off the field"

What made him weak imo was his inability to separate himself from an owner determined to sign big names in FA and hopefully get a hit or two in the draft. To me that spelled a kiss ass type of job security for him and a misuse of his real talent by his boss.

Right now, I'll bet that in a real time vote SM would absolutely demolish BA if the question was.......who would you prefer as GM?
So, while you're right that Bruce had a few hits, it honestly doesn't tick me off that they finally put men in jobs that most appropriately fit their skills.

 

[Sportster 72]

Mostly agree with your post Sty, actually agree in part with both you and dad. It appears Allen's draft wasn't too bad. Still too soon to tell. Always been my opinion you need to wait 3 or 4 years to say with certainty. Still I would rather have McCloughan in charge of personnel. I don't think dad would argue with that.

What big name FAs did Allen sign? I cannot think of one.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah I think we all agree that SM handling the draft is an improvement. But Dad has a point to some degree, that draft wasn't bad. Wasn't great and combined with the free agents it was a bad offseason, but the one Allen draft didn't really kill us. Still Murphy is the one guy I had high hopes for, not as a pass rusher but as an all around OLB, and I still say he is below average when compared to the rest of the league.

 

[Stymietee]

Mostly agree with your post Sty, actually agree in part with both you and dad. It appears Allen's draft wasn't too bad. Still too soon to tell. Always been my opinion you need to wait 3 or 4 years to say with certainty. Still I would rather have McCloughan in charge of personnel. I don't think dad would argue with that.

What big name FAs did Allen sign? I cannot think of one.

We could quibble over the whole BA vs MS clusterfuck and who signed whom but to me they split responsibilities and were equally at fault for the FA signings that happened on their watch. Even if Bruce relinquished final say that alone spoke more about his self serving determination to pass the buck while continuing to keep one hand firmly planted in DS' s wallet and simultaneously unfocused on building this team properly.

 

[skinsdad62]

[QUOTE="skinsdad62, post: 7755046, member: 1stymie you dont like bruce allen but you know his only draft he actually did here wasnt all that bad

we got trent murphy in round 2 who is the starting OLB and rotational guy

we got our starting LG ? future center

we got our starting RT morgan moses who is ranked as the 3rd best starting RT in the NFL according to PFF

we got aa burgeoning PB starting CB in breeland

and we got a contributing # 4 wr in ryan grant

now for all of allen's miscues that isnt a half bad draft 3 starters and some good rotational guys

Well, to be fair to both of them Dad, Bruce came in with the idea that plug and play was the better way to go. Signing other guys from other teams was his primary way to build while using the draft filled in the rest. I don't believe anyone has forgotten that this team often was crowned the off season champions under his now infamous mantra....."We're winning off the field"

What made him weak imo was his inability to separate himself from an owner determined to sign big names in FA and hopefully get a hit or two in the draft. To me that spelled a kiss ass type of job security for him and a misuse of his real talent by his boss.

Right now, I'll bet that in a real time vote SM would absolutely demolish BA if the question was.......who would you prefer as GM?
So, while you're right that Bruce had a few hits, it honestly doesn't tick me off that they finally put men in jobs that most appropriately fit their skills.[/QUOTE]

oh you are right about SM being better then BA . my point is he did have a pretty good draft

 

[skinsdad62]

guard Spencer Long. Per Pro Football Focus Long has not allowed a sack this year although he has allowed a team-high 22 QB hurries

i dont think this qualifies him as below avg

 

[Caliskinsfan]

i think Long and Murphy are better than sub par, actually I think better than average. And will continue to develop IMO. Tho I'm thinking that as Preston continues to develop, Trent will likely be transitioned more to DE as some have already mentioned. They'll have him likely continue to add some pounds on that large frame.

 

[Sportster 72]

We could quibble over the whole BA vs MS clusterfuck and who signed whom but to me they split responsibilities and were equally at fault for the FA signings that happened on their watch. Even if Bruce relinquished final say that alone spoke more about his self serving determination to pass the buck while continuing to keep one hand firmly planted in DS' s wallet and simultaneously unfocused on building this team properly.

There is nothing to quibble about. There were no high priced FAs which is what you said. They hit on some and missed some. FAs are always a crap shoot. SM hit on some and missed some too, or so the early returns say. I think we like him for his draft history and there is no denying he has done a hell of a job replacing players placed on IR or cut during the season.

One tough thing we rarely focus on is a lot of these guys are in year 4, 5 or 6 and nearing the point where their bodies start breaking down. We have had guys that played good for one or two years then mostly injured. Again part of the problem of building through FA. JMO but it should be just to fill spots for a short time.

 

[Stymietee]

There is nothing to quibble about. There were no high priced FAs which is what you said. They hit on some and missed some. FAs are always a crap shoot. SM hit on some and missed some too, or so the early returns say. I think we like him for his draft history and there is no denying he has done a hell of a job replacing players placed on IR or cut during the season.

One tough thing we rarely focus on is a lot of these guys are in year 4, 5 or 6 and nearing the point where their bodies start breaking down. We have had guys that played good for one or two years then mostly injured. Again part of the problem of building through FA. JMO but it should be just to fill spots for a short time.

Got it.... you would prefer to add your own twist to what I've ACTUALLY written over and over again then argue with yourself, well good luck you two!!

 

[Sportster 72]

Somehow I ALWAYS don't understand you Sty. Even when I mostly agree.

 

[Stymietee]

Somehow I ALWAYS don't understand you Sty. Even when I mostly agree.

( In the voice of Mudbone) See.....what had happened was......there are people who like to pick with other peoples, especially those who they believe that they can play them Jedi mind tricks on. Then they.... uh, I mean, we... no wait...yeah they, uhra agree wit a mu-a-fuka except for this or dat one lil thing that they felt like addin' or changin' to what was originally writ. Then dey, rather than just agreeing and callin' it a day, say shit like, they confused. Got damn, make a old Mu-a-fuka like me just, look at dey avatar and scratch my head....see?

Thank you Mudbone!!

 

[Sportster 72]

( In the voice of Mudbone) See.....what had happened was......there are people who like to pick with other peoples, especially those who they believe that they can play them Jedi mind tricks on. Then they.... uh, I mean, we... no wait...yeah they, uhra agree wit a mu-a-fuka except for this or dat one lil thing that they felt like addin' or changin' to what was originally writ. Then dey, rather than just agreeing and callin' it a day, say shit like, they confused. Got damn, make a old Mu-a-fuka like me just, look at dey avatar and scratch my head....see?

Thank you Mudbone!!

Love Mudbone

 

[gkekoa]

Yeah I think we all agree that SM handling the draft is an improvement. But Dad has a point to some degree, that draft wasn't bad. Wasn't great and combined with the free agents it was a bad offseason, but the one Allen draft didn't really kill us. Still Murphy is the one guy I had high hopes for, not as a pass rusher but as an all around OLB, and I still say he is below average when compared to the rest of the league.

Is Murphy average? Listed are all the number two OLBs in the NFL for their team.

Chiefs...Hali/Houston
Broncos...Miller/Ware

Very few teams are like the top two.

Chargers...Attachou 6 sacks
49ers...Brooks 5
Texans...Clowney 4.5
Redskins...Murphy 3.5 sacks
Cardinals...Golden 3.5 sacks
Packers...Neal 3 sacks
Jets...Maulden/Pace each have three sacks and that is with Wilkerson inside.
Colts...Walden 3 sacks
Browns...Kruger 2.5 sacks
Steelers...Jones 2 sacks
Ravens...Upshaw 1 sack

You see...Murphy is a number 2 OLB and nobody bad mouthing him credits him for his ability to play the run. Yes, Preston Smith has more sacks but why isn't he starting? He may be some day but ask yourselves why not now?

 

[skinsdad62]

smith had 3 sacks today