Thoughts on Murray?

[eaglesnut]

If you're ripping Murray then you haven't seen the games. Really awful oline play, especially in the middle.

 

[night]

Murray was overrated last year. The worst mistake the Eagles made this offseason was getting rid of Nick Foles and thinking Sam Bradford was the answer.

 

[redseat]

Still way early on in the season. However, he has to be kicking himself by not staying in Dallas. But also he might not be since Dallas has no Dez and now no Romo

 

[UK Cowboy]

Great back, terrible scheme fit. They have him going sideways, he is a north/south runner. An ideal fit for that scheme would be, um, Shady McCoy

 

[bksballer89]

Great back, terrible scheme fit. They have him going sideways, he is a north/south runner. An ideal fit for that scheme would be, um, Shady McCoy

Lmao exactly

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I always felt like he was a bad fit for the Eagles. He's more of a downhill RB and running out of Shotgun often doesn't seem like his style. Not surprised by his slow start at all

Well, I'm a little surprised because he was so good in DAL...at the same time he took the biggest contract he could find with little regard to scheme...two games don't make a season, but with all of those major moves that Kelly made...his leash is not going to be that long in PHI, I'm sure the natives are already restless after the preseason showing.

 

[jarntt]

so if the eagle's line sucks how... is Murray suppose to do anything to be proud of.

Break some tackles, use the stiff arm Cowboy fans saw work so well last year, cut back and use his vision to find a different hole like he did so often with Dallas. It's not like there is NEVER a hole. Every NFL OL, even the worst, provides a hole from time to time. Murray led the NFL with yards after contact last year.

 

[fordman84]

All I heard was that Eagle OL was just as good, if not better at run blocking, than Dallas. Also that Chip wanted a "one cut and go" RB instead of a dancer like Shady.
Now all I see are excuses about the OL and Chip calling plays for a RB that don't include getting downfield right off the snap but instead running to the sideline and looking for a lane.

Chip got an old school RB and is trying to fit him into his new school "out cute the defense" scheme. Murray is best in a smashmouth "I'm gonna run right over you like Beast Mode" scheme.

 

[jarntt]

All I heard was that Eagle OL was just as good, if not better at run blocking, than Dallas. Also that Chip wanted a "one cut and go" RB instead of a dancer like Shady.
Now all I see are excuses about the OL and Chip calling plays for a RB that don't include getting downfield right off the snap but instead running to the sideline and looking for a lane.

Chip got an old school RB and is trying to fit him into his new school "out cute the defense" scheme. Murray is best in a smashmouth "I'm gonna run right over you like Beast Mode" scheme.

And you don't give all of that money to Murray and then not give him the ball when you only need one yard.

 

[fordman84]

And you don't give all of that money to Murray and then not give him the ball when you only need one yard.

The one play that Chip looked like he knew what he was doing, Murray scored easily. Of course that was because of a hold, but still it was a solid call. The one and only that CHip made.

 

[PDay8810]

All I heard was that Eagle OL was just as good, if not better at run blocking, than Dallas

PE1....come on down

 

[DutchBird]

All I heard was that Eagle OL was just as good, if not better at run blocking, than Dallas. Also that Chip wanted a "one cut and go" RB instead of a dancer like Shady.
Now all I see are excuses about the OL and Chip calling plays for a RB that don't include getting downfield right off the snap but instead running to the sideline and looking for a lane.

Chip got an old school RB and is trying to fit him into his new school "out cute the defense" scheme. Murray is best in a smashmouth "I'm gonna run right over you like Beast Mode" scheme.

Last season, when the O-line got healthy, let alone in 2013 the O-line was superb - and would have been perfect for Murray to rack up the yards. The holes were there consistently - with McCoy regularly not taking the hole. The All-22's were damning in that regard. And based on what Murray had shown in Dallas, he would be a very good fit. Based on what the All-22's showed, and the way the O-line performed in 2013 when healthy, it was as good as Dallas' O-line (or close to it).

Everyone - including Chip Kelly - is stupefied to see what is going on with this O-line, especially in the run blocking. It is not solely the replacement guards (and Herremans last year was becoming a liability), it is all of them, including Jason Peters and Kelce f-ing up the simplest of run-blocking assignments in existence. It is like suddenly they have completely regressed into the worst run-blocking O-line in the NFL. Hell, you could grab the O-line of the nearest podunk town HS football team, and they would do better run blocking and make less stupid mistakes run blocking than this O-line. And so it seems has the ST O-line (see block).

The one thing Chip Kelly's scheme is not, it is "out-cuting" the defense. That is simplistic ESPN'ian nonsense. It is in many ways fairly old style football at its basis (similar to what Seattle does on defense). The problem first and foremost is the O-line in particular, but much of the team - especially on offense - just stinking up the joint beyond belief. Pretty much the only ones not stinking up the joint on offense are the RB's - Murray, Sproles and Matthews.

 

[fordman84]

Last season, when the O-line got healthy, let alone in 2013 the O-line was superb - and would have been perfect for Murray to rack up the yards. The holes were there consistently - with McCoy regularly not taking the hole. The All-22's were damning in that regard. And based on what Murray had shown in Dallas, he would be a very good fit. Based on what the All-22's showed, and the way the O-line performed in 2013 when healthy, it was as good as Dallas' O-line (or close to it).

Everyone - including Chip Kelly - is stupefied to see what is going on with this O-line, especially in the run blocking. It is not solely the replacement guards (and Herremans last year was becoming a liability), it is all of them, including Jason Peters and Kelce f-ing up the simplest of run-blocking assignments in existence. It is like suddenly they have completely regressed into the worst run-blocking O-line in the NFL. Hell, you could grab the O-line of the nearest podunk town HS football team, and they would do better run blocking and make less stupid mistakes run blocking than this O-line. And so it seems has the ST O-line (see block).

The one thing Chip Kelly's scheme is not, it is "out-cuting" the defense. That is simplistic ESPN'ian nonsense. It is in many ways fairly old style football at its basis (similar to what Seattle does on defense). The problem first and foremost is the O-line in particular, but much of the team - especially on offense - just stinking up the joint beyond belief. Pretty much the only ones not stinking up the joint on offense are the RB's - Murray, Sproles and Matthews.

Not EVERYONE is stupefied. I pointed out that 2015 OL will not be the same as 2014 OL and got bashed for it. I said that losing two of your 5 starters would be an issue, plus Peters is showing his age and is injury prone. So far through 2 weeks, I'm spot on.

And yes, Chip tries to be too cute on offense. he has a RB that will run over guys, but instead tries to get him out wide or use screens or use option reads. Instead when he needs 1 yard, Murray can get it most of the time if you will just line him up and smash it. I sure with you Eagles fans would get on the same page. We have heard since Chip was hired that he is "installing his system" and how he is an offensive genius that is going to revolutionize the NFL. Now we have you saying "Chip runs old school football". Give me a break.

 

[DutchBird]

Not EVERYONE is stupefied. I pointed out that 2015 OL will not be the same as 2014 OL and got bashed for it. I said that losing two of your 5 starters would be an issue, plus Peters is showing his age and is injury prone. So far through 2 weeks, I'm spot on.

Peters was (very) good again by the end of last year, and good even when playing injured. Peters being injury prone, there was no basis for that last season. So was/is Kelce, and Johson. There was nothing to suggest Peters would be as bad as he has been so far (unlike Herremans). Same goes for Kelce. Yes, the guards were replaced - Herremans had to, he was dropping off last season - but the problems seem to have not too much to do with the Guards themselves failing.

By all accounts, there was little that pointed out the O-line being much worse than the 2014 O-line, an O-line that missed their starting guards for much of the season, and that was a turnstile. In fact, the new OG's did quite well in that role last year!

And yes, Chip tries to be too cute on offense. he has a RB that will run over guys, but instead tries to get him out wide or use screens or use option reads. Instead when he needs 1 yard, Murray can get it most of the time if you will just line him up and smash it. I sure with you Eagles fans would get on the same page. We have heard since Chip was hired that he is "installing his system" and how he is an offensive genius that is going to revolutionize the NFL. Now we have you saying "Chip runs old school football". Give me a break.

Murray ran sweeps last year as well. And the O-line has been so bad that there is NO change he will get anywhere smashing up the middle on any consistent basis. Every other play the defense is 5 yards deep in the backfield.

And as far as Chip revolutionizing football - again, in part media fabricated story, and much of it has to do with (a) the tempo, and (b) things around the game (like the sports science). When looking at the plays themselves, there is little revolutionary in them (other than perhaps packaging them based on reads). Hell, it took the media years before they finally accepted that Chip Kelly's offense is a run-based offense.

 

[fordman84]

Peters was (very) good again by the end of last year, and good even when playing injured. Peters being injury prone, there was no basis for that last season. So was/is Kelce, and Johson. There was nothing to suggest Peters would be as bad as he has been so far (unlike Herremans). Same goes for Kelce. Yes, the guards were replaced - Herremans had to, he was dropping off last season - but the problems seem to have not too much to do with the Guards themselves failing.

By all accounts, there was little that pointed out the O-line being much worse than the 2014 O-line, an O-line that missed their starting guards for much of the season, and that was a turnstile. In fact, the new OG's did quite well in that role last year!



Murray ran sweeps last year as well. And the O-line has been so bad that there is NO change he will get anywhere smashing up the middle on any consistent basis. Every other play the defense is 5 yards deep in the backfield.

And as far as Chip revolutionizing football - again, in part media fabricated story, and much of it has to do with (a) the tempo, and (b) things around the game (like the sports science). When looking at the plays themselves, there is little revolutionary in them (other than perhaps packaging them based on reads). Hell, it took the media years before they finally accepted that Chip Kelly's offense is a run-based offense.

Of course Murray ran sweeps last year, but he ran between the hashes more often. Everything he has done this year is east/west.

You need to get on the same page as your fellow fans about Chip. Every single one but you apparently thinks Chip is revolutionizing the NFL and was going to set the league on fire with his offense.

 

[DutchBird]

Of course Murray ran sweeps last year, but he ran between the hashes more often. Everything he has done this year is east/west.

From what I have seen - even yesterday - they tried quite a bit of between the hashes running. Rarely if ever there was not a defender yards deep in the backfield on those plays. North/south has not been an option this season so far.

You need to get on the same page as your fellow fans about Chip. Every single one but you apparently thinks Chip is revolutionizing the NFL and was going to set the league on fire with his offense.

You do not need to come up with all kinds of fancy/schmanzy new plays to revolutionize the NFL. I think there is/was the potential for him to do so, but not because of all kinds of cutesie/fancy schmanzy play-calling. Compare him to say Bellichick or Andy Reid, for one, he has been very old-school in the plays he runs.

 

[PDay8810]

Maybe, just maybe it's Chip.

It's not like phillys oline is a turnstile. It's the freaking scheme!! Murray taking a hand off with his shoulders sideways 9 outta 10 times is stupid....college like! Dallas shot gaps all day based on what they saw in film. That was not an oline being ran over. It's an excuse for Philly fans who have no choice but be all in on Chip. Maybe it's the offense he's trying to run with receivers that can't stretch the field and a QB that posses zero threat of running. This shit will snow ball IF Chip doesn't get this corrected in a HURRY.

I like Chip Kelly the college coach. He don't know what he don't know at this level and that is flat out dangerous....and not in a good way

Fly Eagles Fly!

 

[fordman84]

From what I have seen - even yesterday - they tried quite a bit of between the hashes running. Rarely if ever there was not a defender yards deep in the backfield on those plays. North/south has not been an option this season so far.



You do not need to come up with all kinds of fancy/schmanzy new plays to revolutionize the NFL. I think there is/was the potential for him to do so, but not because of all kinds of cutesie/fancy schmanzy play-calling. Compare him to say Bellichick or Andy Reid, for one, he has been very old-school in the plays he runs.

I remember a lot of gaps being shot by Lee and other defenders because of pulling guards as Murray and RB's tried to get to the edge. I don't remember much line up and put a helmet on a helmet and get up field.

 

[DutchBird]

I remember a lot of gaps being shot by Lee and other defenders because of pulling guards as Murray and RB's tried to get to the edge. I don't remember much line up and put a helmet on a helmet and get up field.

Those were the most obvious. But anything inside was just as bad (including all kinds of inside-zone runs). And there is nothing too fancy about inside-zone blocking - and it is what they could get going last year and in 2013. And in 2014 both guards played a lot (due to the O-line mess). And it is everybody f-ing up. When reviewing last week there were quite a few plays pointed out in verious articles, all within-the-hash runs where the O-line simply f-ed up the blocks. The foundation of Chip Kelly's offense - at least according to what he, the players have said and which has been backed up by the evidence - is the inside zone. And that simply has not been there at all for six quarters (of not two full games).

 

[fordman84]

Those were the most obvious. But anything inside was just as bad (including all kinds of inside-zone runs). And there is nothing too fancy about inside-zone blocking - and it is what they could get going last year and in 2013. And in 2014 both guards played a lot (due to the O-line mess). And it is everybody f-ing up. When reviewing last week there were quite a few plays pointed out in verious articles, all within-the-hash runs where the O-line simply f-ed up the blocks. The foundation of Chip Kelly's offense - at least according to what he, the players have said and which has been backed up by the evidence - is the inside zone. And that simply has not been there at all for six quarters (of not two full games).

Sounds like it would have been worth it then to pony up the extra $1M and keep an inside OL blocker.