The hopeful six

[Across The Field]

I think the narrative about Sanchez being so bad last year is a bit overplayed. He's going to have the benefit of two fantastic receivers at his disposal, a decent stable of RBs, and an improved Denver OL.

Not only that, but he won't have the pressure of playing from so far behind, as the Broncos won't be letting up an average of 37 ppg like the Eagles did in his 3 starts last year.

He's going to be asked to be a game manager, which as he showed during his time with the Jets, he can adequately fill, only those Jets teams didn't have this much talent at the skill positions.

 

[eaglesnut]

Solid criticism. I think we can still be top 5 but I am not sure we get all the breaks we had last year with turnovers and injuries. I think the offense needs to up its game if we want to repeat but I think as of now we have the talent to challenge for a playoff spot.

Soon you'll see the defense is worse and it's worse because of Mark Sanchez. The defense doesn't believe in him.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

The Broncos won a lot of close games last year. They were 9-3 in one score games in the regular season and 3-0 in overtime. That's a pretty small margin for error. The offense simply must perform better this season if Denver is to challenge for the Super Bowl again.

That said, I don't think the characterization that the Broncos simply got "hot" in the playoffs is accurate. Certainly they reached another level in the playoffs, but this was a team that started 7-0, finished with 12 wins, was the number one seed in the AFC, and won 5 games over playoff teams during the regular season. They were a really good regular season team that became a great postseason team.

One of the main reasons they became a great post season team was Peyton was taking care of the ball.
OK let's just say Sanchez has a slightly better season then his average. Denver's key losses with unproven young players, lots of close games that went their way, SB hang over, imporved divisin thru FA and the draft... most bettors wouldn't take that bet that Denver gets back to the SB.

 

[Broncosr0k]

most bettors wouldn't take that bet that Denver gets back to the SB.

I think most broncos fans do not think we repeat. It is a tall order no matter what your offseason looks like. The thing I don't get is this belief that the broncos are going to be at the bottom of AFC west in 2016 or that we will finish 8-8. And many of these guys think the broncos lose because of QB play.

 

[Across The Field]

Soon you'll see the defense is worse and it's worse because of Mark Sanchez. The defense doesn't believe in him.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think most broncos fans do not think we repeat. It is a tall order no matter what your offseason looks like. The thing I don't get is this belief that the broncos are going to be at the bottom of AFC west in 2016 or that we will finish 8-8. And many of these guys think the broncos lose because of QB play.

Repeating his tough under the best of circumstances...a lot of talk about Sanchez...but imo losing Jackson up front and Travathan needs to be addressed...VM is obviously a great player, but with Ware another yr older...are Ray and Barrett ready to step on a regular basis...my thinking is the DEF takes a small step back.

Broncos will be in the mix, still a 10 win type team...I don't expect OAK to go north of that and KC...probably a 9 to 10 win team too.

 

[Broncos6482]

One of the main reasons they became a great post season team was Peyton was taking care of the ball.
OK let's just say Sanchez has a slightly better season then his average. Denver's key losses with unproven young players, lots of close games that went their way, SB hang over, imporved divisin thru FA and the draft... most bettors wouldn't take that bet that Denver gets back to the SB.

That's a pretty high bar to clear, though. How often does the defending champ make it back to the Super Bowl? You had the Seahawks two two seasons ago, but before that you have to go back a decade. It's extremely rare anyway.

 

[Broncos6482]

Repeating his tough under the best of circumstances...a lot of talk about Sanchez...but imo losing Jackson up front and Travathan needs to be addressed...VM is obviously a great player, but with Ware another yr older...are Ray and Barrett ready to step on a regular basis...my thinking is the DEF takes a small step back.

Broncos will be in the mix, still a 10 win type team...I don't expect OAK to go north of that and KC...probably a 9 to 10 win team too.

I think the loss of Jackson will be felt moreso than the loss of Trevathan. Denver has been really good at developing inside linebackers, and they feel so confident in the guys they have that they didn't even draft an inside linebacker.

Losing Jackson hurt, though. I think he will be missed. I think Kenny Anunike has potential, but he can't seem to stay healthy.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think the loss of Jackson will be felt moreso than the loss of Trevathan. Denver has been really good at developing inside linebackers, and they feel so confident in the guys they have that they didn't even draft an inside linebacker.

Losing Jackson hurt, though. I think he will be missed. I think Kenny Anunike has potential, but he can't seem to stay healthy.

That was telling.

Yep...generally speaking, the WILB type athlete is easier to find & develop than a productive DL or even a buck position.

We saw that when Ray Lewis retired...the Ravens lost his leadership, etc. but in terms of plays on the field...CJ Moseley has not missed a beat.

So many people are enamored with the numbers that VM & Ware put up that they forget about the guys that help make it happen. Wolfe, Jackson, and Williams upfront was a very good trio...something I'm hopeful PIT can replicate with Hargrave in the middle to go with Heyward and Tuitt.

 

[Broncos6482]

That was telling.

Yep...generally speaking, the WILB type athlete is easier to find & develop than a productive DL or even a buck position.

We saw that when Ray Lewis retired...the Ravens lost his leadership, etc. but in terms of plays on the field...CJ Moseley has not missed a beat.

So many people are enamored with the numbers that VM & Ware put up that they forget about the guys that help make it happen. Wolfe, Jackson, and Williams upfront was a very good trio...something I'm hopeful PIT can replicate with Hargrave in the middle to go with Heyward and Tuitt.

That can be a chicken or egg type of argument, though. Were Wolfe, Jackson, and Williams successful because Miller and Ware drew so much attention, or were Ware and Miller better because offenses had to account for Wolfe, Jackson, and Williams? Personally I fall into the little of column A, little of column B category.

 

[cdumler7]

That can be a chicken or egg type of argument, though. Were Wolfe, Jackson, and Williams successful because Miller and Ware drew so much attention, or were Ware and Miller better because offenses had to account for Wolfe, Jackson, and Williams? Personally I fall into the little of column A, little of column B category.

I think Column A can actually be proven. Teams definitely devoted blocking help to the outside much more than to the inside. Malik had more one-on-one opportunities than he will ever have in his career again. I'm not saying Malik doesn't deserve to be paid because he is a good player but he was definitely helped by the system. I will say I do think the Broncos paid the right DE though between Malik and Wolfe. Wolfe actually was the bigger player when it came to the pass rush of the two. He had 8.5 sacks in the final 10 games of the season (including playoffs). Throw in they paid him a lot less than what Malik was able to get on the open market.

As for the defense I honestly think it is hard to tell what they will be. We saw last year Shaq Barrett make a giant leap forward as a pass rusher and he says a lot of that is credited to Miller and Ware working with him throughout his rookie year and off season. He came back and when given the opportunity did incredible. So if Shane Ray can have a similar bump and the Broncos can have 4 legit starting caliber pass rushers coming after the QB with just as strong of secondary as the year before then yeah they stand a great chance of continuing to have one of if not the top defense in the league. Honestly my biggest worry has more to do with the run defense than it does the pass defense.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

That can be a chicken or egg type of argument, though. Were Wolfe, Jackson, and Williams successful because Miller and Ware drew so much attention, or were Ware and Miller better because offenses had to account for Wolfe, Jackson, and Williams? Personally I fall into the little of column A, little of column B category.

Well...you have a point.

Having seen this play out over a long term in PIT...it's great to have fire breathers outside, but the game is still inside out...you gotta have the active bigs.

When the Steelers were at their peak in LeBeau's 3-4, from about '04 to '09...they had Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel @ DE and Hampton playing the nose...Woodley and Harrison on the edge as the last big OLB duo...that was a Bronco (of '15) type DEF, 3 SB appearances, 2 wins with those guys upfront as the core...as the DL boys got older and Aaron was replaced with Hood, and Hampton replaced with McLendon, the OLB production slipped.

Now...the DL is nearly rebuilt with the exception of a legit NT. No firebreathers outside...47 sacks...that's pretty much where they were in the LeBeau heyday.

 

[Clayton]

I think most broncos fans do not think we repeat.

Honestly this looks like the most open NFL season in recent memory. I wouldn't count out the Broncos but there really isnt a favorite. Carolina is probably the only team you can pencil into the playoffs for sure.

 

[Across The Field]

Honestly this looks like the most open NFL season in recent memory. I wouldn't count out the Broncos but there really isnt a favorite. Carolina is probably the only team you can pencil into the playoffs for sure.

I'd toss Arizona and New England into that mix, regardless of what happens with Brady.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Honestly this looks like the most open NFL season in recent memory. I wouldn't count out the Broncos but there really isnt a favorite. Carolina is probably the only team you can pencil into the playoffs for sure.

I'd toss Arizona and New England into that mix, regardless of what happens with Brady.

Steelers would not surprise me either. But even of those team there is not one that I like as a SB contender much less champion.

 

[Clayton]

I'd toss Arizona and New England into that mix, regardless of what happens with Brady.

Arizona if Carson Palmer stays healthy, yeah. New England probably deserves the benefit of the doubt like a couple of other teams but they did just trade away their top pass rusher for magic beans and they are losing Brady for a bit. I think the only way New England doesn't make the playoffs though is if Buffalo can combine their 2013/2014 defense with their 2015 offense and Miami improves (not hard) and the Jets maintain or improve (more skeptical on that)

 

[Across The Field]

Steelers would not surprise me either. But even of those team there is not one that I like as a SB contender much less champion.

Oh yeah, I would definitely put Pittsburgh in there. They're loaded.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think Column A can actually be proven. Teams definitely devoted blocking help to the outside much more than to the inside. Malik had more one-on-one opportunities than he will ever have in his career again. I'm not saying Malik doesn't deserve to be paid because he is a good player but he was definitely helped by the system. I will say I do think the Broncos paid the right DE though between Malik and Wolfe. Wolfe actually was the bigger player when it came to the pass rush of the two. He had 8.5 sacks in the final 10 games of the season (including playoffs). Throw in they paid him a lot less than what Malik was able to get on the open market.

As for the defense I honestly think it is hard to tell what they will be. We saw last year Shaq Barrett make a giant leap forward as a pass rusher and he says a lot of that is credited to Miller and Ware working with him throughout his rookie year and off season. He came back and when given the opportunity did incredible. So if Shane Ray can have a similar bump and the Broncos can have 4 legit starting caliber pass rushers coming after the QB with just as strong of secondary as the year before then yeah they stand a great chance of continuing to have one of if not the top defense in the league. Honestly my biggest worry has more to do with the run defense than it does the pass defense.

Some of the DL sack production is a by-product of scheme within the scheme.

In LeBeau's DEF...all 3 DL had 2 gap responsibility vs the run, 2nd was to cave the pocket....that had rough 80 sacks between them..a true testatament to just how good they were.

Butler's DL have 1 gap responsibility, thus more free to pass rush.

Barrett...still seething that PIT wasn't more aggressive there after getting the word from Porter that he was worthy...I understand we lost him over a measly signing bonus...maybe $10-20k.

imo Jackson is not going to do as well in JAX, but when I look at the money MLB and NBA players get, I'm always glad to see these guys get that big payday when they've earned.

 

[Across The Field]

Arizona if Carson Palmer stays healthy, yeah. New England probably deserves the benefit of the doubt like a couple of other teams but they did just trade away their top pass rusher for magic beans and they are losing Brady for a bit. I think the only way New England doesn't make the playoffs though is if Buffalo can combine their 2013/2014 defense with their 2015 offense and Miami improves (not hard) and the Jets maintain or improve (more skeptical on that)

A big part of NE making the playoffs is how bad their division is. They're almost guaranteed to win it, especially because the 4 game Brady (potentially) will miss aren't horribly difficult, so 2-2 or 3-1 are realistic.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I think the narrative about Sanchez being so bad last year is a bit overplayed. He's going to have the benefit of two fantastic receivers at his disposal, a decent stable of RBs, and an improved Denver OL.

Not only that, but he won't have the pressure of playing from so far behind, as the Broncos won't be letting up an average of 37 ppg like the Eagles did in his 3 starts last year.

He's going to be asked to be a game manager, which as he showed during his time with the Jets, he can adequately fill, only those Jets teams didn't have this much talent at the skill positions.

I want to see Denver's O-line play better before I say they are, their replacements look really poor and they did let some talent leave. I definitely wouldn't call them as good as what he had in Philly and a LOT worse than what he had in NY. I get Sanchez averaged 9.5 wins with that D in NY those two years, but that was 6 years ago. The run game really will need to step up to be on par with those teams too.


I don't want it to happen but I really do think Denver struggles this year. They still may win the division, but it wouldn't surprise me if that D takes a big step back and they struggle to be a .500 team.