the end of no DH

[calsnowskier]

Just for the record, I am 100% in favor of the DH being used in spring training and the ASG, and am somewhat OK with it being used in the minors.

 

[cezero]

I really don't care that much, for the record.

Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[calsnowskier]

That's roughly the same as advocating a single player in one of the most specialized and central positions in all of sports not doing something they almost universally suck at.

Herp derp.

Requiring the pitcher to hit brings 1000 more strategic considerations into the game. The 12 pitcher on the roster is actually important. The 13th bat can actually win (or lose) you a game. A pitcher who can lay down a bunt, or actually pop a couple out per season actually REALLY helps himself out.

The DH is the "Herp derp" of sports.

 

[cezero]

Requiring the pitcher to hit brings 1000 more strategic considerations into the game. The 12 pitcher on the roster is actually important. The 13th bat can actually win (or lose) you a game. A pitcher who can lay down a bunt, or actually pop a couple out per season actually REALLY helps himself out.

The DH is the "Herp derp" of sports.

I don't think you understand baseball very much.

Anyhoo, people who feel so strongly about this stuff crack me up.

For self-proclaimed "purists," I really hope they keep it around in the NL.

 

[navamind]

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!1

(I love both styles of baseball.)

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't think you understand baseball very much.

Anyhoo, people who feel so strongly about this stuff crack me up.

For self-proclaimed "purists," I really hope they keep it around in the NL.

I should have figure from the first appearance of "Herp derp"...

You are of the mindset of "You don't agree with me, therefore, you [don't] understand baseball very much"

gotcha

 

[TDs3nOut]

Nothing sadder in all of professional sports than watching 99% of pitchers hit.
.

Definitely kills some opportunities to score, but I was watching a Braves game the other night where Mike Minor got a two-run double that scored what I think were the Braves first two runs of the game. Minor went on to pitch very well and get the win. I thought it was probably the biggest hit of the game. Certainly not the norm, but when it does happen, perhaps that makes it more exciting.

 

[cezero]

I should have figure from the first appearance of "Herp derp"...

You are of the mindset of "You don't agree with me, therefore, you [don't] understand baseball very much"

gotcha

Okay.

Hope the DH stays around in the NL just for you.

I wouldn't want to deny anybody the excitement of seeing a pitcher lay down a bunt.

 

[cezero]

Definitely kills some opportunities to score, but I was watching a Braves game the other night where Mike Minor got a two-run double that scored what I think were the Braves first two runs of the game. Minor went on to pitch very well and get the win. I thought it was probably the biggest hit of the game. Certainly not the norm, but when it does happen, perhaps that makes it more exciting.

I can understand that.

I seriously don't care much.

It was hilarious watching Felix Hernandez hit a grand slam in interleague play. The possibility of things like that happening make me hope it sticks around in the NL, actually.

 

[Darkstone42]

It can stay in the All-Star game to showcase more hitters in the exhibition, and it can stay in the minor leagues because it's good for development of hitters to have an extra spot in the lineup at each level, but at the Major League level, the pitcher has to hit.

Sure, pitchers are largely terrible hitters, but some aren't that bad at it, and many of them do pretty well with bunts. But here's the thing I love about it. It's the only time mound opponents are in direct conflict. I like that dynamic. I like the challenge it throws down when a pitcher gets visibly frustrated about striking out. I like the grins pitchers get when they actually get a hit.

But perhaps most importantly, I love that it forces teams to build full, deep, capable benches. When you have to pinch hit or double-switch, the pitcher's spot will usually come up again at some point. Now you need another pinch hitter. And you better have enough of them to cover those roles.

And it keeps those bench players in the game more. You know as a manager you'll have to call on one or more of them, so you have to occasionally work them into your lineup to keep them sharp. To me, that's important. It makes the whole team more important, not just the 9 guys who hit that day.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

It can stay in the All-Star game to showcase more hitters in the exhibition, and it can stay in the minor leagues because it's good for development of hitters to have an extra spot in the lineup at each level, but at the Major League level, the pitcher has to hit.

Sure, pitchers are largely terrible hitters, but some aren't that bad at it, and many of them do pretty well with bunts. But here's the thing I love about it. It's the only time mound opponents are in direct conflict. I like that dynamic. I like the challenge it throws down when a pitcher gets visibly frustrated about striking out. I like the grins pitchers get when they actually get a hit.

But perhaps most importantly, I love that it forces teams to build full, deep, capable benches. When you have to pinch hit or double-switch, the pitcher's spot will usually come up again at some point. Now you need another pinch hitter. And you better have enough of them to cover those roles.

And it keeps those bench players in the game more. You know as a manager you'll have to call on one or more of them, so you have to occasionally work them into your lineup to keep them sharp. To me, that's important. It makes the whole team more important, not just the 9 guys who hit that day.

thats the problem, if it stays in the minor leagues then how and when do pitchers learn to hit... Or do we not need to teach the pitchers who need to hit how to hit??

 

[Darkstone42]

thats the problem, if it stays in the minor leagues then how and when do pitchers learn to hit... Or do we not need to teach the pitchers who need to hit how to hit??

I see that as a developmental philosophy problem, and I think teams should have the freedom to choose. Perhaps you have a stud in your minor league system who you know will be a starter, so you let him hit when he pitches. Say you have two strong-hitting catchers who both have a chance to succeed at the Major League level, though, at the same level in the minors, and you want them both to get regular at bats without switching their position, so you might want to split their time between catcher and DH to get them both regular at bats and regular games behind the dish.

Fringe minor league starters, guys with poor control or stamina, or only one or two reliable pitches, who will likely end up the in bullpen, don't need to learn how to hit, and the majority of most minor league rotations are those sorts of guys. Most teams would justify the DH two or three out of five starts.

So I guess in the minor leagues, it would be most beneficial to make the DH optional. That gives the team the opportunity to develop a future starter as a hitter so he's not necessarily an automatic out at the bottom of the order, or use that spot to develop another hitter who happens to play an organizationally deep position.

 

[calsnowskier]

I see that as a developmental philosophy problem, and I think teams should have the freedom to choose. Perhaps you have a stud in your minor league system who you know will be a starter, so you let him hit when he pitches. Say you have two strong-hitting catchers who both have a chance to succeed at the Major League level, though, at the same level in the minors, and you want them both to get regular at bats without switching their position, so you might want to split their time between catcher and DH to get them both regular at bats and regular games behind the dish.

Fringe minor league starters, guys with poor control or stamina, or only one or two reliable pitches, who will likely end up the in bullpen, don't need to learn how to hit, and the majority of most minor league rotations are those sorts of guys. Most teams would justify the DH two or three out of five starts.

So I guess in the minor leagues, it would be most beneficial to make the DH optional. That gives the team the opportunity to develop a future starter as a hitter so he's not necessarily an automatic out at the bottom of the order, or use that spot to develop another hitter who happens to play an organizationally deep position.

The problem with making it optional is that fans of the minor league teams are not necessarily fans of the parent club. They want the MudCats to win.

Playing a game where one team is using the DH and one team is not is not competitive.

You and I are fans of MLB teams, and we only care about what is beneficial to the big club. The Minors are really just exhibition games. That is not the case for fans in Toledo or Fresno, though.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

It's an inevitability that the NL will adopt it. They're the only league in the world that hasn't yet, and they use the DH when it suits their purposes. Once the older NL owners die or sell off, the newer generation of owners will bring in the DH full-time.

I've always enjoyed the dichotomy of the two leagues. I wish it would stay this way forever, but I also wish they'd do away with Interleague Play to make it even more separate.

 

[calsnowskier]

It's an inevitability that the NL will adopt it. They're the only league in the world that hasn't yet, and they use the DH when it suits their purposes. Once the older NL owners die or sell off, the newer generation of owners will bring in the DH full-time.

I've always enjoyed the dichotomy of the two leagues. I wish it would stay this way forever, but I also wish they'd do away with Interleague Play to make it even more separate.

It may be inevitable, but I feel it is for all the wrong reasons. It makes roster building a lot easier (the 12th pitcher and 13th bat do not mean nearly as much with the DH) and in-game decisions are lessened as well.

The Union may make it a deal-breaker one of these years in the CBA, though...

 

[steveringo]

It may be inevitable, but I feel it is for all the wrong reasons. It makes roster building a lot easier (the 12th pitcher and 13th bat do not mean nearly as much with the DH) and in-game decisions are lessened as well.

The Union may make it a deal-breaker one of these years in the CBA, though...

I think you are overestimating the DH impact on the game. For most teams, depth is the biggest concern, so they will bring 15-16 major league ready pitchers to spring training with the intent of a few starting in AAA - so that last roster spot is not nearly as important as you imply. The same can also be said for the last bat too...

And, the oly in-game decision that will lessen will be the double-switch. (And it won't have as much impact on the game as some seem to think)... The AL this year is averaging 4 more SB per team than the NL.


Another twist to the issue is that teams are already starting to get away from the typical "DH". Many are platooning 3-4 OF or corner IF. (only five players qualify at DH right now.) I suspect teams will start to value versatility more than bat power in the very near future.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

we only have 24 more years of the NL baseball that some of you love... get ready for the change...

 

[7Samurai13]

thats the problem, if it stays in the minor leagues then how and when do pitchers learn to hit... Or do we not need to teach the pitchers who need to hit how to hit??

I don't know if you watched these pitchers try and hit, but they obviously aren't trying to teach them how to hit now. They might as well be trying to kill flies with a tennis racket because they are just as effective.