The Donovan Mitchell Thread

[nuraman00]

Stockton, I believe was more aggressive in the playoffs in general and when he succeeded in being aggressive, that obviously brought us good things.

That was one thing that stood out in that 1988 series. I believe in at least 5 of the 7 games, if not 6, Stockton took a shot before Malone did.

In at least 2 of the games, most of the rest of the team took a FGA before Malone did.

I don't have an answer as to why. I don't know if it was something conscious, or unconscious, or maybe Malone wasn't getting open, or maybe they were keying on Malone. As I said, I don't have a conclusion.

And regardless, I don't think Malone's slow first quarters were deciding factors in any of those games.

Offensive fouls, and lack of rebounding, were the deciding factors in all of those losses.

So, even after watching that series, I don't have a feeling that Malone could have played better. I think whatever the Jazz did was generally the best decision on offense, outside of the offensive fouls and missed free throws.

Also, Hansen and Thurl Bailey had some really good games. As I said earlier, I really liked the depth of that team.

So I don't look at that team and think someone didn't play well on offense. I was happy with the offense in every game, even in one of the games that was a bad blowout loss.

 

[nuraman00]

I just looked at some season stats for the 1988 Jazz. They were 13th in 3-point attempts, and 15th in defensive free throw rate given up.

Much better numbers.

Yes, the overall totals for 3 point attempts in 1988 were much lower than 1996, because the league didn't take as many 3's in 1988. But the point remains that relative to the league, the Jazz had embraced 3's more under Layden. And they didn't foul as much.

The best of all galaxies would have been to use Layden's 3's and less fouling, with Sloan's pick and rolls and rebounding.

 

[nuraman00]

Back to the point about the playoffs, it's also possible that the adage of the game slowing down, and there being less possessions in the playoffs, was true.

I don't know if it's really statistically true, but I always hear it. It's possible if there were 2-3 less possessions, then that might have been the difference with Malone's scoring.

Also, maybe he also did something worse, like committed more offensive fouls, or something. They don't have stats for things like that, but it's possible something like this could have happened.

 

[nuraman00]

Mitchell has a 40.3 PER in this year's playoffs.

Conley has a 48.9 PER.

I didn't even know a 40 PER was possible.

 

[nuraman00]

Re-visiting this.

1) Where does Mitchell rank in scoring average for 3rd year players? Previously, I think you were filtering only guards. You can do that again. But I'm also interested in all players, so remove the position filter.

2) Based on what we've seen right now, including this year's playoffs, do YOU think Mitchell is special?

Ok, I see how you did the search. When you did 2nd year players, you were only including the 2nd year, not first and 2nd combined.

Player Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

Mitchell is 32nd when all positions are considered, for his 2nd season.

Trae Young and Doncic's 2nd year bumped him down 2 spots, from when you made your post in May 2019.

If I do 3rd year players, he is 46th.

Player Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

Now I'll rank by FG%, FT%, and steals.

I took the results from the previous query, then just sorted those.

He is 76th, .449.

FT%, he is 9th, .863!!!!!!!

Steals, he is 49th at 1.0.

BTW, I tried to go back to the query page, and sort all players points per game, with a minimum of 20 mpg. But I couldn't do it. It wouldn't allow such a query.

If you can figure that out, then can you see how to rank all 3rd year players by FG%?

Because what I did above, was take the results of top scoring 3rd year players, then sort those results by FG%.

So players who didn't score as much, like Stockton, were already excluded.

And can you do all of this before the stats page is moved?

The Player Season Finder is gone too now, to a subscription.

 

[MHSL82]

 

[nuraman00]

I've only seen Mitchell once or twice this year.

But here's what concerns me.

He reminds me of Kevin Martin, Eric Gordon, or Jamal Crawford.

He does not remind me of those players anymore.

 

[nuraman00]

I like this thread. I like seeing @Sackataters' avatar on the main Jazz page where it lists the threads.

 

[nuraman00]

From @clintonite33:

 

[nuraman00]

Well, I know overall they are special, especially on defense. I know they both could score and I wouldn’t question them being able to if they needed to on any given day. I also think they’d score more if Stockton were at point and allowed to do what Stockton does. Ginobli and Parker took shots more and Robinson was there awhile. But I think the ability to have several 25+ seasons consecutively is sometimes overlooked. Malone noted that when he had a good game, he was “supposed to” but if he didn’t, it was his fault. It would be one thing if he were one dimensional or a chucker, but he was a hustler on both sides in great shape. I do wish he were more clutch, but I do think that people sometimes ignore the times that he was.

As far as the playoff average, I think it can be exaggerated. I think as a team the Jazz could’ve done better. And that includes Malone. I don’t know if they would’ve won any championships, but they could’ve done better.

Whenever you happen to find these examples, please post them. Whether they are videos, or article recaps, etc.

It would be nice to see.

 

[MHSL82]

Maybe this is like in the clutch, I can’t find him: All Time Leaders

He has 7,930 points, but he’s missing. I subtracted this season and I still can’t find him. I added his points from the season and I still can’t find him there either. So I don’t know where they put him.

 

[nuraman00]

Maybe this is like in the clutch, I can’t find him: All Time Leaders

He has 7,930 points, but he’s missing. I subtracted this season and I still can’t find him. I added his points from the season and I still can’t find him there either. So I don’t know where they put him.

I don't know why he's not there either.

 

[MHSL82]

Do you know what, if any, did Donovan Mitchell improve in this year? It can be intangibles, tangibles, stats, skill, etc. He averages more assists, but maybe not more per minute. And I think that his minutes are pretty low but they were the same last year, a little more. 33.8 seems low but then again, I’m used to Karl Malone and John Stockton.

 

[nuraman00]

In today's era, with more resting 33 mpg is fine.

 

[nuraman00]

Maybe he improved his complacency, in terms of realizing it takes even more to win, so he will set his expectations of himself even higher.

 

[MHSL82]

Per 36 minutes, his last 82 games (not including playoffs) versus the previous 82: 28.647 Pts versus 25.592 Pts; 5.637 Asts vs. 5.255; 1.498 Stls vs. 0.992; 45.342% vs 43.707% FGs; 86.1% vs 85.0% FTs; 3.049 TOS vs 3.091; down on rebounds and three point shooting.

Per 36 minutes, his last 82 games (including playoffs) versus the previous 82: 27.928 Pts versus 27.914 Pts; 5.716 Asts vs. 5.158; 1.445 Stls vs. 0.972; 44.5% vs 44.3% FGs; 3.095 TOS vs 3.136; down on rebounds, free throw percentage, and three point shooting.

 

[nuraman00]

 

[MHSL82]

Do you know if the Jazz get anything in the pick swap if we end up having the better traffic? My assumption is that if they have the better draft pick, we switch but if we have the better draft pick we wouldn’t. But in that second situation, would we get nothing or would that have a different compensation?

 

[DJ]

 

[nuraman00]

Do you know if the Jazz get anything in the pick swap if we end up having the better traffic? My assumption is that if they have the better draft pick, we switch but if we have the better draft pick we wouldn’t. But in that second situation, would we get nothing or would that have a different compensation?

The Jazz will swap it if the Cleveland pick is better. They won't swap it if it's worse.

If the Jazz don't swap, then they use their own pick instead, since their own pick is better.