The 49er Sports SportsHoopla English, Grammar, Pronunciation, and Usage Thread

[imac_21]

Ah the French. Ask 'em to protect their borders from invasion, and they law down like a groupie on rohypnol. But try to change that language and they'll bury you under a pile of cigarettes, wine bottles & unwashed clothing.

Why does the groupie need rohypnol?

 

[tomikcon1971]

FYI.....follow this thread and you'll get college credit if you pass the test that will be in post #1,268

 

[imac_21]

For me I can't stand all the new text shorthand. Texting and twitter are making a joke of the English language.

This came up in the thread that inspired this one. It could be argued that text/twitter language is the continued evolution of the language making the written communication more efficient.

 

[imac_21]

This isn't accurate.

I suggest you check the definition of infer in a dictionary. Here's Merriam-Webster on it:
Infer - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Note definition 3 could easily have "imply" substituted, and they are citing a source as reliable as William Shakespeare.


The 4th definition of infer, according to m-w, is to suggest or hint.
M-W also informs us that Thomas Moore, in 1528 was the first to use infer and imply in there common usages, as well as the first to use infer in a sense close in meaning to imply (1533).

Definitions of imply include
1. to involve or include by inference, association or necessary consequence rather than direct statement.

2. to contain potentially

3. to express indirectly

Here's the m-w link for imply:
Imply - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Please take note that it lists "infer" as a synonym.

 

[TobyTyler]

Infer can be a synonym for imply. Infer can, in essence, mean both sides of the imply/infer duality. If you say something vague, I can infer meaning from it, but if you imply something, it can also be said that you are inferring it (making inferences).

I don't think so. You infer something from something you hear. You imply something by something you say. To imply, you must speak, in order to infer you must hear.

 

[TobyTyler]

This isn't accurate.

You are correct. IMAC was way off on that one.

 

[yossarian]

That pronunciation isn't wrong. Different regions will have different dialects. Much like composite being pronounced COMposite some place, and comPOSite in others.

How to Pronounce Comparable | Speak Good English Movement

 

[imac_21]

You are correct. IMAC was way off on that one.

You better take it up with Merriam-Webster then. I've already posted my evidence. Feel free to ignore it and keep your head in the sand.

 

[imac_21]

How to Pronounce Comparable | Speak Good English Movement

That's great. Dialects will have their own pronunciations. They are all acceptable.

 

[imac_21]

Really hope I embedded that right. I've never bothered to learn how, but I have read the directions given to others enough. I think.

 

[aaronlindstrom]

As they say, grammar is the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit. Also, the next time somebody says that the 49ers resigned a player, I'm pretty sure a puppy is going to shed a tear. Resign != re-sign!

 

[yossarian]

That's great. Dialects will have their own pronunciations. They are all acceptable.

Comparable - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Merriam Webster lists both, although it's interesting that the audio example they use is the one I've said.

 

[JDM]

I suggest you check the definition of infer in a dictionary. Here's Merriam-Webster on it:
Infer - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Note definition 3 could easily have "imply" substituted, and they are citing a source as reliable as William Shakespeare.


The 4th definition of infer, according to m-w, is to suggest or hint.
M-W also informs us that Thomas Moore, in 1528 was the first to use infer and imply in there common usages, as well as the first to use infer in a sense close in meaning to imply (1533).

Definitions of imply include
1. to involve or include by inference, association or necessary consequence rather than direct statement.

2. to contain potentially

3. to express indirectly

Here's the m-w link for imply:
Imply - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Please take note that it lists "infer" as a synonym.

b : to point out : indicate <this doth infer the zeal I had to see him — Shakespeare> <another survey…infers that two-thirds of all present computer installations are not paying for themselves — H. R. Chellman>
4
: suggest, hint <are you inferring I'm incompetent?>
intransitive verb

Both of these are picking it up indirectly and stating it directly.

2
: to involve or indicate by inference, association, or necessary consequence rather than by direct statement <rights imply obligations>

This is saying it indirectly.

As for including it as a synonym, I wouldn't, but it is because of the close relation between the words.

 

[TobyTyler]

You better take it up with Merriam-Webster then. I've already posted my evidence. Feel free to ignore it and keep your head in the sand.

Just because it is accepted use doesn't make it right. if I say "Canadians have a bad school system", you might infer from that that I'm saying "Canadians are dumb". But you cannot imply anything from what I said. That is the difference. Only I can imply something from my words.

 

[TobyTyler]

Really hope I embedded that right. I've never bothered to learn how, but I have read the directions given to others enough. I think.

When in doubt, always use a semi colon. It is a wonderful tool because nobody knows how or when they should be used so if they see one in your writing they assume you must know what you are doing.

 

[imac_21]

Both of these are picking it up indirectly and stating it directly.

So, what is the difference in meaning between the following sentences:
1. Are you inferring I'm stupid? (This is the example listed by M-W.
2. Are you implying I'm stupid?

As for including it as a synonym, I wouldn't, but it is because of the close relation between the words.

You wouldn't, but I'm going to go with Merriam-Webster as more of an authority on the subject than you.

 

[imac_21]

Just because it is accepted use doesn't make it right. if I say "Canadians have a bad school system", you might infer from that that I'm saying "Canadians are dumb". But you cannot imply anything from what I said. That is the difference. Only I can imply something from my words.

See, this is where you're wrong. Infer has both the meaning you have used above, and one that is a synonym for imply.

I could definitely say you are making an inference that Canadians are dumb. What do you think the root word for inference is?

Also, your argument above seems to be more that I cannot imply something from your words, rather than that you cannot infer something with your words.

 

[JDM]

So, what is the difference in meaning between the following sentences:
1. Are you inferring I'm stupid? (This is the example listed by M-W.
2. Are you implying I'm stupid?



You wouldn't, but I'm going to go with Merriam-Webster as more of an authority on the subject than you.

1. You are using observations about a person to decide they are unintelligent.
2. You are hinting that someone is unintelligent.

 

[imac_21]

When in doubt, always use a semi colon. It is a wonderful tool because nobody knows how or when they should be used so if they see one in your writing they assume you must know what you are doing.

Kurt Vonnegut disagrees:

“Here is a lesson in creative writing. First rule: Do not use semicolons. They are transvestite hermaphrodites representing absolutely nothing. All they do is show you've been to college.”

 

[TobyTyler]

So, what is the difference in meaning between the following sentences:
1. Are you inferring I'm stupid? (This is the example listed by M-W.
2. Are you implying I'm stupid?



You wouldn't, but I'm going to go with Merriam-Webster as more of an authority on the subject than you.

Here's the difference. In # 1 I would be asking you if you think I'm stupid because of something I said. In #2 You are asking if I'm saying that you are stupid.