Tell me if this works/thoughts...

[Likewall32]

Ok, I been thinking bout this, mostly because the setoguchi trade really pisses me off. Burns may be this "top elite" dman everyone claims he is, but I have not clue bout the guy. That said, I still think giving up seto, coyle & 1st rounder was way to much for a guys thatll be a UFA. I think its to much even if he wasnt a UFA. Granted im biased on Seto, cause I dont think you trade your fastest guy, whos only 24, hasnt reached his full potential, only makes $3mil for the next 3yrs and is a 30 goal scorer. Sure he slumped last year, but rolled to what, 22 goals when he got on track. Guys go on shit slumps, how many times in Marleaus career has that happened? I think trading him will bite SJ in the ass...

Anywhoooooo, heres what I thought wouldve been nice if SJ did it.

-Scrap the whole Burns trade. SJ keeps Seto.
-Sign White, he signed for like 2.9
-Trade Heatley for Havlet, saves the 2.5
-Dont waste 2.5 on Hanzus, I think he's a bum personally
-Sign Simone Gagne, he got like 3.5
-Sign Vandmeer

Youd then have something like this (Lines arent perfect, I dont care tho, Im just basically listing the roster in a line format)

Marleau-Havlet-Thornton
Clowe-Logan-Setoguchi
Pavs-Gagne-Open Spot
Mitchell-Mcginn-Ferio/MClaren

Boyle-Murray
White-Demers
Murray-Vandemeer

Niemi
Nitty (can probably be traded)

Wouldnt this be possible & still be under the cap/right at cap?
To me honestly this looks like a lot better lineup then what DWil has put together this offseason. The D isnt what killed SJ this year in the Vanc series, it was just SJ shooting themselves in the foot with dumbass penalities, and some shit goals allowed. Reguardless what the lineup was, no one was stopping Thomas from getting that cup this season.

Anyway, with this lineup, SJ rolls 3 scoring threat lines. IMO its be the best 3 lines in hockey. The D would be fine, full year of white, wallin/huskins gone, demers back in the lineup. its fine...

Remember this past season, SJ didnt get on that 2nd half tear until they signed Welwood & Eager and actually put together a 3rd line that wasnt a pile of shit like it was at the start of the year. This season so far, the whole 3rd line is missing and who'd they get to replace it? Handzus? The forward lineup on this current roster looks like dogshit right now. Its the same 2 forwards lines they werent winning games with 1st half of last season cept a heatley/havlet swap and a subtraction of your fastest guy...

Im prob in a minority here, but I absolutely hate the Burns trade, esp with the other options that were out there. In essence DWil traded 3 first round players for Burns...

Whatd you think bout the above roster (and like I said, its not listed according to correct positions/lines)

 

[filosofy29]

I'm not against what you proposed above.....that said, I think you have a bad case of hindsight 20/20.

I mean, you're basically saying if DWil could see the future, he could have done better for himself. Am I missing something?

 

[SJVP408]

Can't go wrong with that forward group. That definitely looks better than the group the Sharks actually have now. Hard to say Gagne would come here for $3.5. Maybe the Sharks would have to shell out more if one of Gagne's desires were to play with Mike Richards again. Speculation on my part and yours.

Personally, I wanted an upgrade to the blueliners, knowing full well that it would mean some sort of downgrade with the forwards. Burns is an upgrade over White and can be a centerpiece type of dman. If he's retained, the Sharks would have a very good dman for 5-6 years. The current roster not only has an upgraded D, but real potential for an upgrade to the forwards as well, provided Doug uses some more cap room to get another solid 2nd/3rd liner. The forwards won't be as deep as your forward lineup, but still an upgrade over last season.

I think it was indeed the D that killed the Sharks against VAN. They were so easy to setup and maintain a cycle against. It led to frantic play that led to penalties. That led to the inability to maintain sustained offensive pressure.

Your suggestion doesn't upgrade the D so that's why I would rather have the roster now, even though that forward group you presented is insanely deep. I'm not saying your roster won't work, but I just think that an upgrade to the D had to be made. Your D of (+Vandermeer + Braun - Huskins - Wallin) isn't good enough of an improvement that I'd like to see.

 

[Likewall32]

I'm not against what you proposed above.....that said, I think you have a bad case of hindsight 20/20.

I mean, you're basically saying if DWil could see the future, he could have done better for himself. Am I missing something?

How did he need to see into the future? White, Gagne & Vandameer were all UFAs. Havlett for Heatley is a trade that happened now and prob woulda happened w/o the burns deal.
All your doing is elminating the Burns trade then resigning white and making an offer to Gagne... He didnt need to see into the future to do that, he just had to pass on one trade where he gave up way to much shit, not waste money on over paying Handzus (basically the same amount White got and only .5 less then what seto makes FACEPALM!!) He paniced on draft day when Minn GM called him quoting tool "This may hurt a lil but its something youll get used to. Relax, turn around & and take my hand"

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I like the Burns trade if he gets re-signed. If not then Dougie got bent over on it.

Wilson, along with a few others around the league who have commented, seem to view Burns in the Weber, Seabrook, Markov class of dmen. Just shy of Pronger, Lidstrom, Chara. If that is indeed the class of dmen Burns is in then he is far, far superior and much more valueable than White.

 

[Likewall32]

I like the Burns trade if he gets re-signed. If not then Dougie got bent over on it.

Wilson, along with a few others around the league who have commented, seem to view Burns in the Weber, Seabrook, Markov class of dmen. Just shy of Pronger, Lidstrom, Chara. If that is indeed the class of dmen Burns is in then he is far, far superior and much more valueable than White.

I donno, I just dont see it. I mean honestly I had never heard of the guy until the trade. When it happened I txted my buddy that does work for the bulls & blackhawks and is like a sports encylopedia, and asked ummm Who is Brent Burns? He responded, beats the fuck outa me, the guy from the Simpsons? Then I told him what SJ gave up and he bout shit himself going on a tirade and he's not even a sharks fan haha

I think the proposed lineup above, which was all attainable, not some EA Sports NHL wishlist shit, is a much better lineup then what they currently have/could end up with. I think that D lineup, with that whooper of 3rd bigtime scoring lines wouldve easily made up for not getting ONE guy in Burns...

Burns>White not >>>>>>> greater. Seto/Gagne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Handzus

 

[Likewall32]

And lets not forget, with the lineup I posted, SJ KEEPS Coyle & the 1st round pick

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I donno, I just dont see it. I mean honestly I had never heard of the guy until the trade. When it happened I txted my buddy that does work for the bulls & blackhawks and is like a sports encylopedia, and asked ummm Who is Brent Burns? He responded, beats the fuck outa me, the guy from the Simpsons? Then I told him what SJ gave up and he bout shit himself going on a tirade and he's not even a sharks fan haha

I think the proposed lineup above, which was all attainable, not some EA Sports NHL wishlist shit, is a much better lineup then what they currently have/could end up with. I think that D lineup, with that whooper of 3rd bigtime scoring lines wouldve easily made up for not getting ONE guy in Burns...

Burns>White not >>>>>>> greater. Seto/Gagne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Handzus

Seto/Gagne are not PKers which is why Handzus was brought in. Comparing those players is ridiculous. I could just as easily say:

Handzus>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Seto/Gagne in the most important areas the Sharks needed to improve or replace, faceoffs and the PK.

Compare Seto and Gagne to whom ever Wilson brings in to fill out the 3rd line.

As far as how much better Burns is than White, well that's going to have to be a wait and see but it's saying something when coaches like Babcock and Quinville place him in the upper echlon of dmen in the league.

Burns is also only 26 years old so it's not as if Setoguchi was dealt for an aging vet.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

And lets not forget, with the lineup I posted, SJ KEEPS Coyle & the 1st round pick

I liked Coyle and hated to see him go but the 1st rounder was insignificant. The Sharks got an early 2nd round pick in next years draft which should be a much deeper group of players. Basically a late 1st this year will draft a player of the same calibre as an early 2nd in next years.

 

[Likewall32]

Burns is also only 26 years old so it's not as if Setoguchi was dealt for an aging vet.

I know he's not old, but I mean Seto/Coyle&1st rounder (both unknown), uggg why not make the 1st rounder added if he resigns or something like that.

Bookmark this reply cause I have a feeling Heatley & Seto are gonna rip shit up in Minn, I think seto will have a 35goal year... Feel free to throw it in my face if it doesnt happen.

I also dont think Burns will match last years numbers.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I know he's not old, but I mean Seto/Coyle&1st rounder (both unknown), uggg why not make the 1st rounder added if he resigns or something like that.

Bookmark this reply cause I have a feeling Heatley & Seto are gonna rip shit up in Minn, I think seto will have a 35goal year... Feel free to throw it in my face if it doesnt happen.

I also dont think Burns will match last years numbers.

Minny is a better fit for Heatley IMO and I too think he'll preform better there. A 40 goal season wouldn't surprise me. Seto, I just don't know how he'll do there.

As for Burns and the trade, Minny wanted that first because there was a player remaining that they wanted and gave the Sharks a 2nd next year as equil compensation. I believe they were also one of the teams who tried to make a move and draft Coyle last year so he may have been a make or break part to the trade.

I'm of the opinion that we won't know who got the best of the Seto/Burns trade for some time. If Burns turns out to be the legit #1 dman Wilson makes him out to be and he's re-signed then it's clear the Sharks got the best of the trade. If Burns play is not as advertized or he bolts after this season then it becomes obvious that Minny is the clear winner.

 

[Likewall32]

I'm of the opinion that we won't know who got the best of the Seto/Burns trade for some time. If Burns turns out to be the legit #1 dman Wilson makes him out to be and he's re-signed then it's clear the Sharks got the best of the trade. If Burns play is not as advertized or he bolts after this season then it becomes obvious that Minny is the clear winner.

Win some, lose some I guess... SJ ripped off Ottawa bigtime to get Heatley & Boston to get Thornton, eventually it has to be there turn to get ripped off...

Weird that the 3 Sharks jerseys I got the past 2 years all are gone now. Teal-Nabby, Black-Heatley and I just recently added a White-Setoguchi. At least the Heatley & Seto jerseys were knockoffs for $60...
Hmmmm maybe if I get a Doug Wilson jersey he'll get fired?

 

[Cbrower91]

Coyle is going to amount to about Ty Wishart, Ty who you say? Exactlly

 

[Destroydacre]

Looking back on the trade now, considering that Dougie was actually able to trade Heatler to the same team he made the earlier trade with to get Burns, I wish that he was able to keep Seto on the Sharks. That's really the only change that I would prefer. I'm still not happy with all the first round picks being traded away, however it will be worth it if the Sharks can win a Cup. But overall I think the Sharks have actually done alright this offseason. I feel better about the team now than I did before the draft.

 

[sjrules99]

The heatley deal is an A+ move. Havlat is solid, though I too think it would have been nice to keep seto. However, it all depends on burns and the D. If burns is tantamount to boyle when he arrived as many tout him to be, then it's a good deal. However, if he struggles defensively, and doesnt provide the 15+ goals and 40-50+ points that the sharks are expecting, then we could find outselves frustrated by another year of subpar defense.

The thing is that we cant judge until at least the roster is full, and then not again until after the deadline because we all know how much dougie likes to fill holes that come during the year, and then of course not again until the PO's end whenever that is.

As of today, the sharks lost heatley, setoguchi, and white while adding burns, havlat, and handzus. The D is slightly better, heater-havlat trade-off is pretty even, and I would put handzus below seto (only because seto could find his groove to be a consistent 30 goals scorer quite soon) even though they play a different set of roles. Overall, I kinda view them as pretty close to equal, but dougie still have over 6M in cap space (really about 7M if braun or Moore starts in worcester since one would now be the #8 Dman). That 7M is a lot of space to make things happen. Wash and Buffalo are looking to dump.

Derek Roy would be nice? brad boyes might be too? take a chance on Alex Semin?

 

[Cbrower91]

Brad boyes is a steaming pile of white hot trash

 

[filosofy29]

How did he need to see into the future? White, Gagne & Vandameer were all UFAs. Havlett for Heatley is a trade that happened now and prob woulda happened w/o the burns deal.
All your doing is elminating the Burns trade then resigning white and making an offer to Gagne... He didnt need to see into the future to do that, he just had to pass on one trade where he gave up way to much shit, not waste money on over paying Handzus (basically the same amount White got and only .5 less then what seto makes FACEPALM!!) He paniced on draft day when Minn GM called him quoting tool "This may hurt a lil but its something youll get used to. Relax, turn around & and take my hand"

If Dwil knew that White was willing to take a hometown discount and would have signed for the same deal he did with Detroit (2 years at $5.75mil) , then yes, he made a mistake. However, I'm guessing White was looking for the most amount of money possible while also looking to play on a winning team. After DWil made the trade for Burns, White's options were limited and Detroit was the benefactor. If the Sharks AND Detroit were both in the bidding for White, I think it would have driven up his asking price.....and Detroit had a bigger budget for defense after losing Rafalski. DWil couldn't have known what White was going to receive on the open market at the time of the trade for Brent Burns (at the Draft).

That's why he would have needed to see the future in order to make everything you said above possible. Gagne and Vandermeer obviously weren't future seeing variables.

Don't get me wrong Likewall, I like your team, there's just 1 big "if" that DWil couldn't have known before July 1st (White).

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Gagne signed with LA because of Richards. He really wasn't a consideration for the Sharks. $3.5m is a hefty piece of cap to gamble on a guy with head issues as well.

 

[Likewall32]

Gagne signed with LA because of Richards. He really wasn't a consideration for the Sharks. $3.5m is a hefty piece of cap to gamble on a guy with head issues as well.

And 2.5mil is a hefty piece of cap for a guy that isnt worth it IMO in Handzus and seto+coyle+1st round is a heafty gamble for a guy thats a UFA next season. As mentioned above that Gagne signed with LA cause of richards, ehhh we dont really know that for sure. But Im pretty sure Dwil didnt bother to even off a contract, since it seems the only FA's he goes after are bottom tier that he chooses to overpay for.

Also, on my original roster, on Line 3 i left "open spot" I forgot that I acutually had someone in mind for that... None other then Raffi Torres. Last year I wanted SJ to sign him and he went for peanuts. This year I figured he'd be offered something big, and again he signed for a low amount. Hate him all ya want Id love him on SJ. Hes that annoying pest that you need.

LOL so whatd ya think of the roster now adding Torres to the mix, and it would still fit within the cap.

Oh yea, I also wanted to mention how everyone seems to think that with the D so much improved how the team will be alot better off even with the shitastic 3rd & 4th lines they have now. Heres an example of why I dont think that will be the case: Chicago Blackhawks stanley cup team vs Chicago Blackhawks this past season. They kept there whole stacked D unti (minus sopel), and got rid of 2nd/3rd & 4th liners, alot of who were scorers (ala what SJ this year) and replaced them with bums, kept there top 2 lines and went with 2 scoring lines... What did it do for them? Almost missed the playoffs and only got in cause another team lost. That D can only get you so far, but if you dont have shit up front it doesnt matter...

 

[Bowlby]

If if if if if. If the sharks had dealt nabby and not kipper. If vancouver didn't get all those bounces.

Burns is shoulder nd heads above white(pun intended) as much as I like the guy. The only part of the seto trade I didn't like was trading him right after re-signing and wanting to stay in SJ. Other then that like pointed out the 2nd round pick next year will have pretty much the same value as this years 1st, so that's a wash, coyle? Look at our amazing production we've got from out last how many years of 1st round picks nd top prospects, not worried about losing him. Havlat's speed is such a huge plus for this team he is an upgrade over he who doesn't show up in the playoffs. Comparing handzus to gagne and seto proves extreme lack of hockey knowledge, sorry, plain and simple handzus is a great face off guy, penatly killer and defensive forward who can chip in 15 goals which makes hi a huge asset. I like all the moves this offseason so far(as long as burns re-signs)