TCU, WVU and Utah Share Growing Pains

[bbwvfan]

GOING DEEP: WVU, TCU with Big 12 blues | NCAAF | The Score

This article pretty much sums up the argument I have made regarding WVU's struggles in its new conference.

Of course… I am just a Dana fan boy…

 

[DCWV4life]

So we beat TCU this year, does that mean we are ahead of the game? lol

I saw Jacob McCrary (sp) is already doing some recruiting for us, seems like we are bringing in some good kids.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

As I remember, we did not light up the Big East when we first joined either, but we did get to beat up on Rutgers and Temple every year.

 

[GoldRusher]

I'm fine with growing pains, I'm not fine with being blown out by stinkin Kansas, that's not growing pains IMO. Unless of course big Charlie has finally turned the corner with the Jayhawks.

 

[DCWV4life]

As I remember, we did not light up the Big East when we first joined either, but we did get to beat up on Rutgers and Temple every year.

First ten years of the BE 39-29-1, had 8 or more wins three times, won the conf 1 time, only one time did we have less than 4 L's, went 1-5 in bowls.

 

[JIMKOON]

I'm fine with growing pains, I'm not fine with being blown out by stinkin Kansas, that's not growing pains IMO. Unless of course big Charlie has finally turned the corner with the Jayhawks.

Charlie Weiss is a certifiable program killer who would have trouble being a winning coach in Pop Warner football(heehee). I am hoping that the loss to Kansas is our absolute low point in our jump to the Big 12, which we needed, no matter how much the current state of our football program may be. I just want to see growth, measurable growth filled with a fighting no quit spirit. There is no greater disappointment than seeing our players hang their heads, joke and laugh on the sidelines while getting their collective butts kicked. A close loss is more endurable than an embarrassment, because we witnessed leaving it all on the field, even in failure. But the beatdown by any team, no matter their ability or non ability, is just plain hard to understand, even endure.

 

[DCWV4life]

I'm fine with growing pains, I'm not fine with being blown out by stinkin Kansas, that's not growing pains IMO. Unless of course big Charlie has finally turned the corner with the Jayhawks.

They Kansas loss was horrible i think we can all agree to that...

When we came to the BE we had an exp head coach and we went 11-9-2 in his first two seasons with a tie with Miami OH and a L to Rutgers. Then the 3rd year we struck gold (14th year of Dons career at WVU) went 11-1. Interesting enough after that season we only reached the 8 win mark twice with one bowl win and no conf titles.

Sometimes i think people think RR played in the same BE as Don. Lets face it what Don did in the BE was not that remarkable. no disrespect intended.

 

[DCWV4life]

joke and laugh on the sidelines while getting their collective butts kicked..

You saw who was leading this...good ole Trickett, hell one time it went to him and he is talking up the water girl.

I think this kid is more of a problem than help, I do not like it that him and Childress live together. I do not think Tricketss head or heart is in football. Just my opinion.

 

[bbwvfan]

I go back to my days of being a student at WVU. I remember when WVU beat PSU for the first time in 29 yrs. I thought the team had finally made it. They were 7-1 with only a loss to rival Maryland early in the season, but they had just beaten a ranked BC and PSU in consecutive weeks.

The team proceeded to lose the next 3. Reading Don Nehlen's book… he explains that team was short on depth. After the punishment of playing such a difficult stretch, he had nobody able to play down the stretch. And, it cost them…

We have heard Dana preach to the team and its fans for two years now… the Big 12 is a different beast than the BE. It requires quality depth.

While there are few excuses for the embarrassing loss to KU last week, the significant depletion at LB is not going to help. Throw in the fact that 3 true freshmen were forced to play, and the guys who start have had to play too many minutes due to lack of quality depth… and it sometimes gets ugly.

Like 1984 ugly…

 

[JIMKOON]

I go back to my days of being a student at WVU. I remember when WVU beat PSU for the first time in 29 yrs. I thought the team had finally made it. They were 7-1 with only a loss to rival Maryland early in the season, but they had just beaten a ranked BC and PSU in consecutive weeks.

The team proceeded to lose the next 3. Reading Don Nehlen's book… he explains that team was short on depth. After the punishment of playing such a difficult stretch, he had nobody able to play down the stretch. And, it cost them…

We have heard Dana preach to the team and its fans for two years now… the Big 12 is a different beast than the BE. It requires quality depth.

While there are few excuses for the embarrassing loss to KU last week, the significant depletion at LB is not going to help. Throw in the fact that 3 true freshmen were forced to play, and the guys who start have had to play too many minutes due to lack of quality depth… and it sometimes gets ugly.

Like 1984 ugly…

I can,and most certainly do, agree. Depth is the overall biggest factor in teams who experience long term winning traditions. Recruiting is tough, and getting tougher. I guess the question for us, that in our recruiting efforts, WHEN, there are few 5 and 4 stars players, do we fill the roster with 3 stars? Will that filling of the gap we presently have, stabilize the field of play? I know that some teams have done so, and had marginal success, but still no National Championships. Is that our eventual goal, or is just a winning record the goal? 1984 WAS ugly for sure!

 

[bbwvfan]

Jim,

I believe WVU has gone after more 4-star athletes in the last couple of years than in the past. WVU has been fortunate to get a few of them too.

But, even with 4 star recruits, you have to develop them. Most certainly, WVU has been fortunate in the past to develop 2 and 3 star athletes, and has had great success when those young men entered their junior and senior years.

In the last two seasons, WVU has been forced to play some young defensive players before they were ready… physically and mentally… for action. Last year, I believe 11 freshmen and/or RS freshmen saw playing time on defense. This year, the staff has been forced to burn a RS on at least two-three freshmen… Gross, Tyler and Howard.

Look at Baylor, how long has Petty waited to see action? That is building a program. Something WVU has not been able to do with the turnover at HC.

 

[JIMKOON]

Jim,

I believe WVU has gone after more 4-star athletes in the last couple of years than in the past. WVU has been fortunate to get a few of them too.

But, even with 4 star recruits, you have to develop them. Most certainly, WVU has been fortunate in the past to develop 2 and 3 star athletes, and has had great success when those young men entered their junior and senior years.

In the last two seasons, WVU has been forced to play some young defensive players before they were ready… physically and mentally… for action. Last year, I believe 11 freshmen and/or RS freshmen saw playing time on defense. This year, the staff has been forced to burn a RS on at least two-three freshmen… Gross, Tyler and Howard.

Look at Baylor, how long has Petty waited to see action? That is building a program. Something WVU has not been able to do with the turnover at HC.

There isn't a single disagreement with this post. Addressing those weaknesses has to be paramount. I'm just not sure 3 Star kids get us to the mountain top. I could be wrong, and no real research has been done of championship type teams and their use of middle range athletes to compliment their programs depth concerns. Honestly, having a team full of nothing but 5 star kids, does not always mean a winning program either, so I would assume there is a balance equation of level of talent. Some guys rated as 5 star players, have been big failures too, because they have nothing between the ears, and as the competition levels increase, natural ability loses out to intelligence on the field of play. I would have been a lousy coach, cause this stuff drives me nuts...lol

 

[bbwvfan]

There isn't a single disagreement with this post. Addressing those weaknesses has to be paramount. I'm just not sure 3 Star kids get us to the mountain top. I could be wrong, and no real research has been done of championship type teams and their use of middle range athletes to compliment their programs depth concerns. Honestly, having a team full of nothing but 5 star kids, does not always mean a winning program either, so I would assume there is a balance equation of level of talent. Some guys rated as 5 star players, have been big failures too, because they have nothing between the ears, and as the competition levels increase, natural ability loses out to intelligence on the field of play. I would have been a lousy coach, cause this stuff drives me nuts...lol

There are always going to be misses when it comes to evaluation of high school talent. But, I think there was an article recently that looked at the percentage of 5 star talent that ended up in the NFL, and it was quite high.

Developing talent is key. We have seen the offensive staff develop talent in the past. I believe we will see them continue to have success doing it at WVU as well. Blackmon and Bailey were not 4star or 5 star talent coming out of high school. Nor was Welker or Crabtree.

 

[DCWV4life]

There are always going to be misses when it comes to evaluation of high school talent. But, I think there was an article recently that looked at the percentage of 5 star talent that ended up in the NFL, and it was quite high.
.

I know of the article and not only were fives going in the draft, they were going high in the draft...i.e. Tavon.

Will ty to dig the article up.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Many of the 5 star guys are the kids who grow and develop early. As Freshman and Sophomores, they are dominant and are picked up by the Alabamas, Texas, USCs and so on. They get the benefit of the best coaching, the best facilities and the most TV exposure. they are also scouted by the NFL from day 1. Pedrigree means alot to the NFL and it is reflected in the draft.

Some kids develop later and those are the diamonds in the rough. I always look at Jason Gwaltney and Steve Slaton. Gwaltney had the pedigree, but Slaton developed into the better back. Even after a great career at WVU, Slaton never made it to the first round of the draft. I always thought that if Gwaltney put up Slatons numbers he would have been a first rounder.

 

[bbwvfan]

Kids develop at different times. I believe a 5 star kid indicates he is developed well beyond his peer group. These kids are mostly ready to play their true freshman year.

But, 3 star kids can be developed into top round NFL draft picks. With the right genetics, a good work ethic and time... these kids can go on to become outstanding football players.

Again, that is where player development plays its role. Dana has certainly shown his ability to develop lower rated kids and turn them into NFL prospects over time.

 

[Slaton10]

GOING DEEP: WVU, TCU with Big 12 blues | NCAAF | The Score

This article pretty much sums up the argument I have made regarding WVU's struggles in its new conference.

Of course… I am just a Dana fan boy…

Not sure if I totally agree with the article....each teams issues are much different in my opinion...

For West Virginia its been the revolving door of Head Coaches and Assistants...and some bad recuiting classes...Pattersons been at TCU long enough and should have been in a better position when they made the move...

 

[bbwvfan]

Not sure if I totally agree with the article....each teams issues are much different in my opinion...

For West Virginia its been the revolving door of Head Coaches and Assistants...and some bad recuiting classes...Pattersons been at TCU long enough and should have been in a better position when they made the move...

Gary Patterson had never been on a staff of an AQ team prior to arriving at TCU. He had never been on the staff of a team playing in one of the Big 4 of Pac 12, SEC, B1G and Big 12. How would he know the kind of quality depth he'd need to survive the regular season of the Big 12... when he had never experienced it before.

We were all under a misconception...

Bill Stewart used to talk about the BE being a black and blue league. As a fan of WVU, I used to believe the BE was on equal standing with the other AQ BCS conferences. I no longer feel that way. Especially the demands placed on the defense in a conference like the Big 12 where so many teams go uptempo... creating upwards to 90 plays per game.

Why would Patterson start plugging players into his program when it was part of the MWC? Then it was heading to the BE, so how was that much different to them? I understand their plight...

 

[JIMKOON]

Gary Patterson had never been on a staff of an AQ team prior to arriving at TCU. He had never been on the staff of a team playing in one of the Big 4 of Pac 12, SEC, B1G and Big 12. How would he know the kind of quality depth he'd need to survive the regular season of the Big 12... when he had never experienced it before.

We were all under a misconception...

Bill Stewart used to talk about the BE being a black and blue league. As a fan of WVU, I used to believe the BE was on equal standing with the other AQ BCS conferences. I no longer feel that way. Especially the demands placed on the defense in a conference like the Big 12 where so many teams go uptempo... creating upwards to 90 plays per game.

Why would Patterson start plugging players into his program when it was part of the MWC? Then it was heading to the BE, so how was that much different to them? I understand their plight...

 

[Slaton10]

Gary Patterson had never been on a staff of an AQ team prior to arriving at TCU. He had never been on the staff of a team playing in one of the Big 4 of Pac 12, SEC, B1G and Big 12. How would he know the kind of quality depth he'd need to survive the regular season of the Big 12... when he had never experienced it before.

We were all under a misconception...

Bill Stewart used to talk about the BE being a black and blue league. As a fan of WVU, I used to believe the BE was on equal standing with the other AQ BCS conferences. I no longer feel that way. Especially the demands placed on the defense in a conference like the Big 12 where so many teams go uptempo... creating upwards to 90 plays per game.

Why would Patterson start plugging players into his program when it was part of the MWC? Then it was heading to the BE, so how was that much different to them? I understand their plight...

Hmmm....no!

He has been in that program long enough to have built depth and continuity...sorry but you sound like the Blue kid from Georgia saying who they were going to show Wv what SEC speed looks like!...

Patterson had and has the players to contend...he just has a young team this year...that would be the only parallels you could draw between the programs...Why Utah is struggling is a mystery really...