Starting Staff - Why the walks?

[the_broom]

The Giants pitching staff is full of guys throwing nasty stuff, no doubt. However, it seems as if the staff as a whole are a group of nibblers. Now, MadBum pounds the strike zone...but the balance of the staff seems to live just off the strike zone and consequently give up lots of walks.

Now, is this by design or does the staff just not have the control of say...the Philles rotation?

 

[Heathbar012]

The Giants pitching staff is full of guys throwing nasty stuff, no doubt. However, it seems as if the staff as a whole are a group of nibblers. Now, MadBum pounds the strike zone...but the balance of the staff seems to live just off the strike zone and consequently give up lots of walks.

Now, is this by design or does the staff just not have the control of say...the Philles rotation?

Good point. I think it comes down to realizing that a single mistake could cost them the game. They may not be as accurate as the Phillies' staff, but they're close. The Giants' pitchers just don't have the benefit of knowing that their line-up can easily make up for a couple of mistakes in the zone.

Also, compounding this, given the historically great pitching at the beginning of the season, I think a lot of umpires shrunk their zones a bit. Obviously, I haven't done the data collection and analysis necessary to make such a claim (cue gp), but I think that is the natural reaction to the post-steroid era offensive regression. Wait. Are they testing for HGH?

 

[gp956]

The Giants pitching staff is full of guys throwing nasty stuff, no doubt. However, it seems as if the staff as a whole are a group of nibblers. Now, MadBum pounds the strike zone...but the balance of the staff seems to live just off the strike zone and consequently give up lots of walks.

Now, is this by design or does the staff just not have the control of say...the Philles rotation?

Let's quantify this a bit:

BB/9
Madbum 2.2
Cain 2.3
vSong 3.1
Timmy 3.6
Zito 5.1
Sanchez 5.9

League average is 3.1. The phillies lead the league at 2.5 bb/9, and their starting staff is below that. The phillies are exceptional; the Giants are more or less average, but mostly because Sanchez/Zito suck.

Cain and Madbum can hang with the phillies staff. So they're off the table for this discussion.

vSong I think uses the BB strategically - so I'll put his walk rate as by design.

Timmy - also by design, but not strategic as with vSong. He simply does not give in to the hitter on most occasions, so throws to the corners even with 3 balls.

Sanchez: combination of strategic and lack of control, but weighting more to a lack of control. He also does not give in to the hitter, but he also loses his arm slot at least a few times a game.

Zito: does anybody really care at this point?

 

[gp956]

It should be noted that high walk rate pitchers do not have long careers after the age of 26. On the Giants staff, only Sanchez is considered a high walk rate pitcher.

 

[msgkings322]

It should be noted that high walk rate pitchers do not have long careers after the age of 26. On the Giants staff, only Sanchez is considered a high walk rate pitcher.

All the more reason we should really try to move him this offseason


And perhaps Timmy is turning into a high(er) walk rate pitcher, and that should factor into our decision on whether to sign him to a long huge deal...

 

[Stokes1931]

It should be noted that high walk rate pitchers do not have long careers after the age of 26. On the Giants staff, only Sanchez is considered a high walk rate pitcher.

In general, I would agree with this. But wasn't Randy Johnson a high walk pitcher for a lot of years?

 

[gp956]

All the more reason we should really try to move him this offseason


And perhaps Timmy is turning into a high(er) walk rate pitcher, and that should factor into our decision on whether to sign him to a long huge deal...

Break point on a high walk rate is about 4.3 BB/9. But timmy's K/BB ratio is the lowest of his career, so maybe.

 

[gp956]

In general, I would agree with this. But wasn't Randy Johnson a high walk pitcher for a lot of years?

Yes.

 

[msgkings322]

In general, I would agree with this. But wasn't Randy Johnson a high walk pitcher for a lot of years?

As was Nolan Ryan...maybe the most overrated pitcher in history, in terms of fame/regard matching ability to get his team a W.

 

[SF11704]

Interesting question and an even better observation of our staff. IMO I really feel that there are some pitchers that have 'electric' stuff. In general I also believe that these pitchers do not nibble. I think that their ball has so much movement that they really can't nibble. I think they just throw to the zone and let the ball do it's own thing. I think Johnson was this way. I also think Steve Carlton was like this as well. I don't believe it's just a factor of speed alone. There is some other thing happening which makes the ball behave erractically. Rotation, angle or what have you. I tend to think that Tim falls into this catagory. When he's struggling it almost seems that you see it early in a game. He can't seem to hit the strike zone. The ball is all over the place. This relates into walks. He then makes a mistake pitch and he's down 2-3 runs on one damn hit. Sanchez also seems to have the ability as well. I think that's what leads to so many swing throughs. Vogs I think is a control pitcher and I also agree that he uses the walk purposely on many ocassions. I also don't believe you have to have electric stuff to be an elite pitcher. PHI starting rotation shows that. At times it reminds me of what I think a 95MPH controlled knuckleball would look like.

 

[mistgl]

Lincecum is a strikeout pitcher. As Gp said, he isn't going to throw in the zone, even if he is behind in the count.